Community bible study time!

[Falo2Lead]

Greet. I will get started and catch up..............

[crytsprospect]

I already have questions if we are to read it carefully....

1. Who is Theophilus

2. Why did Gabriel the angel talk to Zacarias instead of Elizabeth, but he spoke ti Mary?

[breeb]

Im in. I think this is a great idea, but I'm moving this week so Its going to be hard for me. I probably wont be to active in the discussions until I'm in and settled, but I do accept the challenge. Im really looking forward to it.

[drjme]

misshalfway, I appreciate your concern. And the thought crossed my mind that some would see it that way. Please don't be threatened by this idea. We will not debate scriptures in this thread but we we will learn and grow together. I like doing bible studies and thought it would be fun to do it with you. often when I start bible studies I hand generic questions out to help the people go really deep into the scriptures. If they don't help you throw them out..and it is only my reccomendation that we all start with prayer before we go. We will be respectful of each other in this thread. I hope you still particpate.:)

I have a friend that does that. 'lets study together (so I can correct you and your erroneous translation and interpretation)'.

The thing is LDS in general do 'go very deep into scriptures'. I'm sure you don't have sinister intentions though:D I'm in

[Misshalfway]

misshalfway, I appreciate your concern. And the thought crossed my mind that some would see it that way. Please don't be threatened by this idea. We will not debate scriptures in this thread but we we will learn and grow together. I like doing bible studies and thought it would be fun to do it with you. often when I start bible studies I hand generic questions out to help the people go really deep into the scriptures. If they don't help you throw them out..and it is only my reccomendation that we all start with prayer before we go. We will be respectful of each other in this thread. I hope you still particpate.:)

Thank you for addressing this concern. I just needed to get that off my chest.

Luke....here I come!

[skalenfehl]

There is so much involved in the NT (and an understanding of some OT history, particularly with the prophet Elijah) with regards to Luke that answering some of the questions requires a greater understanding of just chapter one. One should already have a basic understanding of the Acts of the Apostles and the epistles to understand more about who Luke was. Some of the questions can be answered in chapter one, but some require a broader understanding and a seasoned study of the NT. I studied the four gospels in synchronicity many years ago and I must say that Luke has quite a technical account. I look forward to sharing my thoughts on this chapter.

[Dr T]

Good thought Skalen :) Can't wait to hear and learn more during this study.

[crytsprospect]

Ok I get and totally understand the gospels are deep . I have a good working knowledge of the bible but am not as learned as you Skale so please for us at the back of the class acknowledge and answer our simple questions which if answered will help us dig deeper into the gospels namely Luke right now.

[skalenfehl]

Ok I get and totally understand the gospels are deep . I have a good working knowledge of the bible but am not as learned as you Skale so please for us at the back of the class acknowledge and answer our simple questions which if answered will help us dig deeper into the gospels namely Luke right now.

I appreciate the compliment, but I have yet much to learn about the Bible and have only scratched the surface. I'm happy to share my understanding and contribute to this discussion. Out of respect for lostnfound's request, I won't share anything until this weekend or I would have already answered your two questions in the previous page. If you'd like, however, I can pm you a reply. Your second question is quite thought provoking. I like it!

Best wishes.

[Dr T]

Maybe we can start posting our thought toward the end of the week like on Thurday night or Friday so we can consider other's thoughts during the weekend before we start another chapter on Mondays. What do you all think of that. I'm not trying to high jack Found One's thread just throwing it out as an option. I know I'm hardly ever here on Thurdays much and Friday's only every other week and it would help me in that regard. What do you all think?

[crytsprospect]

I am up for any suggestions how we should proceed...I am eager :}

[skalenfehl]

I am up for any suggestions how we should proceed...I am eager :}

Lostnfound should be around soon. I'm sure she'll be happy to continue taking the reigns.

[lostnfound]

Hey you Guys!! I hope you have been enjoying your study! I sure have. I like Dr. T's advice. I just wanted everyone to get there answers before we started posting but we can start on Thursday to the weakend! Okay so how did everyone do?? Eager to hear your thoughts and If anyone had any questions go ahead and ask.

[skalenfehl]

I already have questions if we are to read it carefully....

1. Who is Theophilus

2. Why did Gabriel the angel talk to Zacarias instead of Elizabeth, but he spoke ti Mary?

Ok, it's the weekend! I'm excited to participate now and I'll start off. By my understanding, Theophilus was someone who Luke was obviously well acquainted. Consider the following two verses:

Luke 1: 3

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

Acts 1: 1

1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

treatise (n)

1. A systematic, usually extensive written discourse on a subject.

2. (Obsolete). A tale or narrative.

I believe that Theophilus was Greek and someone noteworthy and whom Luke respected, perhaps someone influential in Greece (note the title, "most excellent") that Luke really wanted to testify to not only by his account of Christ's ministry and his many miracles, but also of the "acts" of the apostles. He really wanted Theophilus to understand Christianity. There really is no record so it's just my assumption but perhaps Theophilus was a newly converted Christian or at least investigating.

The gospels are eyewitness accounts as Luke described in chapter 1 v. 2. I believe these were written as testimonies, to the Jews, to Christian converts and to Gentiles, depending on who's gospel it is you're reading.

As for your second question, I have to preface it with the first article of faith of our church:

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

By this I mean that we believe that Father in Heaven and His Son, Jesus Christ, are two distinct personages.

The angel Gabriel visited Zacharias in the Holy of Holies to give him the news because Zacharias was the father of John the Baptist. Gabriel was following the line of authority, hence appearing to Zacharias, who then informed Elizabeth.

The reason that Gabriel appeared to Mary instead of Joseph is because Joseph was not Christ's father. Father in Heaven is Christ's father. Christ was God's only begotten Son. So the line of authority went from God to Gabriel directly to Mary, who is Christ's mother. I hope this makes sense.

Anyway, this is my understanding of the scriptures regarding these two questions and not necessarily church doctrine. Hope I helped.

[Dr T]

Skalen,

I love your point of "most excellent" Theophilus (I missed that piece completely). The name sounds Greek to me too.

Gabriel from my understanding, functioned as a messenger for God who was an angel. When you said,

So the line of authority went from (presumably God to) Gabriel directly to Mary, who is Christ's mother.

it raised a question for me. I don't see "authority" in the angels and the connection with the birth of Jesus. What did u mean by that?

My question from the opening lines were “Was Luke and eyewitness of the events too or was he just using someone elses documented material?”

Luke made note of placement and important key figures that help support his writings and historical support for what is written.

John (the Baptist) was “filled with the Holy Spirit” while yet in his mother’s womb. It does not seem as though he "did" anything but this was a give from the Father. He turned many back to the Lord indicating that there was a turning away from the Lord.

Making people ready. Zechariahs functioned as a priest. He did not believe and therefore was mute until the birth of John. What was the disgrace she spoke of? Was it her inability to have children?

God send forth Gabriel again but this time to Joseph. A virgin! Luke, being a physician, would only know of the human process of creating babies, “what did he do with the information that she was a virgin?” She said the same, “I am a virgin” how can this be? You have “found favor with God.” What does that mean? How did they find favor with God?

Jesus’ birth foretold. We see he will reign and His “kingdom will have no end.” The angel told them both what they would name the children. “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.”

"For nothing will be impossible with God." Nothing? It was used three times to show nothing is too difficult for Him. I’ve talked to many people that since nothing is impossible for God that it follows that he can do impossible things. That’s not what this is saying IMO. I hold to the idea (at least for now) that nothing that is possibly done is impossible for God and something that is logically impossible ought not be held up as the standard.

Mary accepted the role without complaint or argument. When Mary saw Elisabeth, it said she was filled with the Holy Spirit (her and the baby John). John leaped in the womb as Mary greeted her. She “believed” there would be a fulfillment. Mary saw it as a blessing. This blessing will be upon generation after generation “toward those who fear Him.” Goes through a series of opposites (from death to life from darkness to light, etc.). “Great mercy to her.” (What does that mean?) Zechariahs followed the direction of naming his son. Right away he praised God! Looks like they had an instant reputation. Then Zacherias filled with the Holy Spirit. Accomplished redemption for His people. I can see why they thought Jesus would be a political savior. Says “all of our days.” She continued to grow in spirit.

[skalenfehl]

it raised a question for me. I don't see "authority" in the angels and the connection with the birth of Jesus. What did u mean by that?

In the LDS church there is such a thing as line of authority, meaning the authority to act in God's name (Aaronic Priesthood and Melchizedek Priesthood). If memory serves me correctly, Elijah the prophet of the old Testament was the last to hold this priesthood after the order of Melchizedek until Christ's ministry, who then ordained his apostles with this authority. After they were all killed (minus John), the line was broken and the church fell, hence the apostacy.

A priesthood authority line traces a priesthood holder’s authority from the person ordaining him back to Peter, James, and John, who conferred the Melchizedek Priesthood on the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1829 when the church was restored. Joseph Smith then ordained others and so on down the generations. Every worthy male is given the Aaronic Priesthood by the laying of hands and also the Melchizedek Priesthood thereafter and can be traced back to Joseph Smith, who received it from Peter, James and John who received it from Christ directly.

It's also a matter of "chain of command" for lack of a better term. "Stewardship" also applies as our local leaders report to our regional leaders who report to the area leaders who report to the General Authorities (our apostles and prophet) who then report to the Lord. Apologies for the lengthy background.

So in this instance, Zacharias was the patriarch of his family so Gabriel the angel, or messenger, was sent from God to deliver the news of John's coming birth to Zacharias. In Jesus' case, since Father in Heaven, himself, is the patriarch, being Christ's literal Father in Heaven, Christ being his begotten Son, since Father in Heaven already knew about this, He was the one who sent Gabriel down and Mary, being next in line to be informed was able to receive this revelation straight from Gabriel.

Like I said, this is just my reasoning. I don't claim to be correct, but this is the way I see it.

[skalenfehl]

Each week we will study one chapter together. Starting with the Luke Chapter 1 Some of the questions I would like

for you to consider when you are working through your chapter.

1. Who is the author and time and date written?

2. Who is the author speaking to?

3. Are there any comparison/contrasts to observe? Repetitions of words? Cause and Effect or purpse and result statements?

As I mentioned earlier some of the questions require a background knowledge of the OT and NT, particularly the Acts of the Apostles and some of the epistles.

1. The author in this book is, of course Luke, who seems to have taken an account from eyewitness as we read in v. 1 and 2 and also ministers of the word.

John 1: 14

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The "we" are the many witnesses of Christ, particularly the disciples, who beheld his glory, such as the time of Christ took Peter, James and John to a high mountain where he was transfigured.

2. Luke is addressing the 'most excellent' Theophilus. Noteworthy is the fact that Luke wrote this treatise (gospel of) to him as well as the Acts of the Apostles.

Luke 1: 3

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

Acts 1: 1

1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,

I believe that Theophilus was a new convert to Christianity or at least an investigator:

Luke 1: 4

4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

3. The immediate comparison is between Elizabeth and Mary, who both experience a miraculous conception--Elizabeth in her elder years and Mary by the "power of the Highest".

Another comparison and contrast here is the fact that Zacharias questions Gabriel and is struck dumb for his unbelief. Mary also in likeness questions Gabriel, but apparently was not struck dumb. Perhaps she did indeed believe, but was curious and amazed rather than doubtful as was the case of Zacharias.

[skalenfehl]

verse 17 can take up pages of discussion alone. John the Baptist was to go before Christ in the spirit and power of Elias.

Of this I will only say that I don't believe that John the Baptist was the prophet Elijah. There is no record, to my knowledge, of any prophet in the OT named Elias (being Greek of the Hebrew name Elijah). Verse 17 continues to say that John was to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Verse 76 states that he shall go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways.

In my mind then, the spirit and power of Elias is a representation of a preparer or a "forerunner" as described by Joseph Smith:

"The spirit of Elias is first, Elijah second, and Messiah last. Elias is a forerunner to prepare the way, and the spirit and power of Elijah is to come after, holding the keys of power, building the Temple to the capstone, placing the seals of the Melchizedek Priesthood upon the house of Israel, and making all things ready; then Messiah comes to His Temple, which is last of all" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 340).

It's interesting to note that many versions of the Bible change the name or title of Elias to Elijah and some use the word forerunner in the beginning of the verse in place of "go before" or slight variations.

Bible Dictionary: Elias

I'll leave it at this for now, aside from a small note to mention that John the Baptist appeared to Joseph Smith during the restoration of the church to restore the Authority to baptize unto Salvation, the keys of which John possessed in mortality, having baptized the Savior and all believers of the word. There was an order to everything in the ancient church and this same order was followed at the restoration. All of this bears little relevance in v. 17 other than the fact that the spirit and power of Elias functioned as a preparer and forerunner.

[skalenfehl]

4. Are there any promises for us to hang on to and any conditions?

5. How does this apply to my life?

6. What does this passage teach me about God?

I forgot to mention the time and date that Luke wrote his gospel. Reading Luke chapter one alone is not enough to determine the time and date, however it is reasonable to say that it was sometime after about 35 AD or during Luke's time and travels with Paul. Most authorities, however have determined it to be a few decades after Christ's resurrection and ascension into heaven, probably around 60 AD or so.

4. I don't see any direct promises, but the nature of God tells me that there is nothing that God cannot do regardless of our faith as contrasted by Zacharias and Mary. This is why I have the quote that I do in my signature. Nothing stands in the way of God's will. Lucifer did not stand in the way during the war in heaven, Satan did not succeed in tempting Christ while in the flesh, and all prophecies of the OT came to pass and were fulfilled in Christ. What irony that the Jews became the fulfillment of those prophecies without even knowing it.

Knowing that God can do all things I know that I can receive all the blessings upon which His commandments are predicated. There is no doubt. Therefore my trust will always be in Jesus Christ and never in the arm of flesh.

5. By aligning my will with God's, I am enabled to succeed both spiritually and temporally. God's work and glory is to bring to pass our immortality and eternal life. God knows our needs. When we align our will with this and put our shoulder to the wheel in the Lord's work, we are strengthened.

Matt. 6: 33

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

6. God's will be done, not mine. Just as Mary siad, let this be unto me according to thy word, so it was. As I already mentioned, when we obey God's commandments, we receive the joy that comes with obedience.

[Dr T]

Great thoughts Skalen :)

[skalenfehl]

7. Steps of action you need to take to obey?

8. Write out a prayer concerning what you learned and want to put into practice?

7. I need to keep an open heart continually and be receptive to the Lord and the promptings of the Spirit. I doubt I'll see an angel in my mortal life, but who knows? I try to live every day like it's my last. If I live my life continually prepared to receive the Lord or be called home then let the second coming of Christ come like a thief in the night! I shall rejoice.

8. I'll reserve this for my private prayers.

Lostnfound, are you still there? Anyone else want to share?

[lostnfound]

Great thoughts Skalen :)

I agree great thoughts skalen! Thank you for sharing with us.

The kids are finally down and I can share with you what I learned and saw differently. :)

1. Author and date?

A. Luke talking to Theophilus (well known Roman dignitary even perhaps one of ceasar's household) as well as a broader audience you and I..taking place in a.d 60 to 61

2. key verse? A..1:3,4...I chose this because here we have the verses that give us the why behind it all. To give us an exact account and a consecutive order of events. To know the exact truth..so here it is..it is all laid out for us and nothing is missing.

3. Repetitions, compare/contrasts, cause and effect?

A....compared and contrast mary and Elizebeths pregnancy as well as the angels visitations. Did any see that in each time a angel showed us they were afraid? I kept wondering how angelic these angels must have been.

I was also looking at how Elizebeths baby leaped in her womb at the sound of mary's greeting..and not the other way around.

4. Were there any promises for you to claim?Under what conditions?

I think Mary hints at some promises we can claim..

vs..48-56..He gives regard to those that have the humble stte of His bondslave.

He promise us his mercy will be upon us to those that fear him

He promises us that he will scatter those that are proud in their hearts, and he will bring down rulers from their thrones,

He promises to exalt those who are humble.

He promises to fill the hungary and send the rich away empty

5. What does this passage teach me about God?

The think I always keep walking away with ..is God does the choosing. He chooses us. I am also striken with that God has a plan for our life before we are even born. Also that God wants to reveal himself to us in every way that he can..so much so that he came as a man. What a loving God.

6. How does God want us to live according to this passage?

A.. Humbly, fearing his name, as mary talks about..

7. steps or actions I need to take to obey? A. I need his Grace everyday..I need to be reminded he is Lord and I am not everyday! Pride steps up to the plate to often and I need forgiveness everyday. Staying in his Word is one way to obey.

8. My prayer concerning this passage of what I have learned.

Lord, you are an amazing God. I thank you for being able to look at luke's passage closely and dig into who you are and who you would like for me to become. Thank you for sending your son into the world. Thank you for Mary and Elezibeth and what we can learn from them as well as they too reconized their need for a savior in you and they were favored. We love you. In jesus name..amen..

P.s I hope the rest of you that did this week continue to share with us what you learned. I look forward to reading your thoughts and I hope you guys are having a blessed week. :)

[skalenfehl]

Ah there you are and just one minute after my previous post.

[lostnfound]

Ah there you are and just one minute after my previous post.

here I am

[lostnfound]

okay is anybody else online that did this with us this week that wants to share there thoughts?