[12-year-old Girl Gets Divorce]

Here is an interesting article:

Many Mormon leaders and historians suggest that sexual relations and the marriage of Joseph Smith and his youngest wife, Helen Mar Kimball, fourteen at the time was "approaching eligibility."

There is no documentation to support the idea that marriage at fourteen was "approaching eligibility." Actually, marriages even two years later, at the age of sixteen, occurred occasionally but infrequently in Helen Mar's culture. Thus, girls marrying at fourteen, even fifteen, were very much out of the ordinary. Sixteen was comparatively rare, but not unheard of. American women began to marry in their late teens; around different parts of the United States the average age of marriage varied from nineteen to twenty-three.

In the United States the average age of menarche (first menstruation) dropped from 16.5 in 1840 to 12.9 in 1950. More recent figures indicate that it now occurs on average at 12.8 years of age. The mean age of first marriages in colonial America was between 19.8 years to 23.7, most women were married during the age period of peak fecundity (fertility).

Mean pubertal age has declined by some 3.7 years from the 1840’s.

The psychological sexual maturity of Helen Mar Kimball in today’s average age of menarche (first menstruation) would put her psychological age of sexual maturity at the time of the marriage of Joseph Smith at 9.1 years old. (16.5 years-12.8 years =3.7 years) (12.8 years-3.7 years=9.1 years)

The fact is Helen Mar Kimball's sexual development was still far from complete. Her psychological sexual maturity was not competent for procreation. The coming of puberty is regarded as the termination of childhood; in fact the term child is usually defined as the human being from the time of birth to the on-coming of puberty. Puberty the point of time at which the sexual development is completed. In young women, from the date of the first menstruation to the time at which she has become fitted for marriage, the average lapse of time is assumed by researchers to be two years.

Age of eligibility for women in Joseph Smith’s time-frame would start at a minimum of 19 ½ years old.

This would suggest that Joseph Smith had sexual relations and married several women before the age of eligibility, and some very close to the age of eligibility including:

Fanny Alger 16

Sarah Ann Whitney 17

Lucy Walker 17

Flora Ann Woodworth 16

Emily Dow Partridge 19

Sarah Lawrence 17

Maria Lawrence 19

Helen Mar Kimball 14

Melissa Lott 19

Nancy M. Winchester [14?]

And then we have this testimony:

"Joseph was very free in his talk about his women. He told me one day of a certain girl and remarked, that she had given him more pleasure than any girl he had ever enjoyed. I told him it was horrible to talk like this."

- Joseph Smith's close confidant and First Councilor, William Law, Interview in Salt Lake Tribune, July 31, 1887

Short Bios of Smith's wives:

http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org

Did Smith have sex with his wives?:

http://www.i4m.com/think/history/joseph_smith_sex.htm

Whatever the average age of menarche might have been in the mid 19th-century, the average age of marriage was around 20 for women and 22 for men. And a gap of 15 to 20 years or more between partners was very unusual, not typical. Whatever biology might have to say, according to the morals of his time, several of Joseph Smith's wives were still inappropriately young for him.

It is a pure myth that 19th-century American girls married at age 12-14. You merely need to go to your local courthouse and ask to see the old 19th century marriage books. Take a look at and pay attention to the age at marriage. Sure a very few did, but it was far from the norm. The vast majority of women married after the age of twenty. The case is even true in pioneer Utah among first marriages. Mormon men in their twenties started out marrying someone their own age. Then later these older men married girls under twenty to be their plural wives. But the first wives were the age of the husband and married over the age of twenty. This is still the case is the rural Utah polygamist communities.

References:

Coale and Zelnik assume a mean age of marriage for white women of 20 (1963: 37). Sanderson's assumptions are consistent with a mean of 19.8 years (Sanderson 1979: 343). The Massachusetts family reconstitutions revealed somewhat higher mean ages. For Hingham, Smith reports an age at first marriage of 23.7 at the end of the eighteenth century (1972: Table 3, p. 177). For Sturbridge, the age for a comparable group was 22.46 years (Osterud and Fulton 1976: Table 2, p. 484), and in Franklin County it was 23.3 years (Temkin-Greener, H., and A.C. Swedlund. 1978. Fertility Transition in the Connecticut Valley:1740-1850. Population Studies 32 (March 1978):27-41.: Table 6, p. 34).

Jack Larkin, The Reshaping of Everyday Life, 1790-1840 (New York: Harper & Row, 1988), 63; Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, Good Wives: Image and Reality in the Lives of Women in Northern New England, 1650-1750 (NY: Oxford University Press, 1980), 6; Nancy F. Cott, "Young Women in the Second Great Awakening in New England," Feminist Studies 3 (1975): 16. Larkin writes,

Dr. Dorothy V. Whipple, Dynamics of Development: Euthenic Pediatrics (New York: McGraw-Hill, 1966)

[12-year-old Girl Gets Divorce]

Originally posted by Outshined@Jul 5 2005, 05:49 AM

Just for giggles, though, why don't you provide the name of the "member of my church" who had sex with a 12-year-old and proof that he did so? It's your accusation, so it shouldn't be so hard to provide proof, right?

here are some, tell me if you need more.

http://www.childpro.org/ldscases.htm

LDS/Mormon

Legal cases and case studies

·          James Adams-January, 1996 West Virginia-   

This case was filed in Raleigh County Circuit Court in Beckley, WV in January, 1996. Adams was an "Ordained Elder" who sadistically abused his own children, even forcing them to make pornography which was confiscated by the state police. The suit seeks $750 million dollars from the LDS Church and other defendants. The mother who brought the case is identified only as Rebecca Doe. She alleges that LDS Church leaders had known about the abuse since 1989 but did nothing about it until Adam's arrest in 1994. Adams was sentenced to 76 to 185 years in prison. In 1997, the LDS Church sought removal to the United States District Court in Charleston, WV, claiming federal question jursidiction. In the fall, the federal court declined to accept jurisdiction and sent it back to state court. Also in the fall of 1997, the West Virginia Supreme Court, in a 4-1 decision, upheld a trial court ruling that prevented plaintiff's from serving subpoenas on Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley and other high officials and from seeking detailed statements of LDS Church assets on the grounds they were too "oppressive and burdensome" on the Church...Read more info on the case

Plaintiff's Attorney:

Michael G. Sullivan

1720 Main St. Colombia,

SC +1 803 254-4669

·        Arlo Atkin-Maricopa County, Arizona in 1994

    This case arose in Maricopa County, Arizona in 1994. The plaintiff, Ellen LNU (last name unknown) had been molested twice by the time she was fourteen. Confused and distraught, she and her parents turned to Bishops Arlo Atkin and James "Jim" Stapley, the latter of whom is (was) a Mesa City Council member. Atkin took her into his home in Mesa where she would live with him and his family. Two months later Atkin began a sexual relationship with Ellen, following which she attempted suicide. But the relationship continued. Church members became suspicious. She moved back home with her family. A few months later, Ellen was pregnant with Atkin's child; she claimed she had been raped by another person. But her mother found sexually explicit love letters from Atkin to the girl. Atkin pleaded guilty, served 132 days in jail and was ex-communicated. Ellen gave birth to the child and put the baby up for adoption. Atkins violated probation by having contact with Ellen. The current status of this case is unknown.

·        Eric Patrick "Ricky" Avant-Norfolk, Virginia-

This case arose in Norfolk, Virginia,  Avant was a church cub scout leader. He sodomized eight boys. He had a prior conviction for sodomy, but the church never checked him out and never registered him with Boy Scouts of America which would have run a background check. The LDS Church settled in May 1992 for an undisclosed amount.

·        Christian Bearnson-Los Angeles, California November, 1993

A jury verdict was returned in Los Angeles Superior Court in November, 1993. This case arose in Pomona, California. The jury awarded actual and punitive damages. Shortly after the verdict, the LDS Church settled the case with the plaintiffs for an undisclosed amount and had the file sealed. The perpetrator was a Mormon Church Elder and the plaintiffs were two fourteen-year-old girls. Tammy LNU and Melody LNU were molested by Bearnson at a church-sponsored camp. Evidence was presented that Bishop Bradley Cutler attempted to cover up. Further, there was evidence that two other girls in 1990 had also been molested by Bearnson at a church camp out. The two other girls had gone to the prior Bishop, Robert Wise, who refused to believe their allegations about Bearnson and accused them of making up the allegations to get attention. Wise said, "Chris Bearnson is part of the priesthood and ... nothing like that happens in our church." Wise later denied having made the comment.

·        Gary Arthur Bishop

In Utah Gary Arthur Bishop sexually tortured and murdered five boys, ages 5-14. He was a Mormon Boy Scout leader.

·        John Charles Blome-Montgomery County, Texas, October 1998

This civil case was filed in Montgomery County, Texas and went to jury trial. The case settled for $4 Million after the Mormons were found negligent. A 13 year old boy who was molested by a Mormon Church youth leader in Magnolia Ward was awarded more than his own lawyers sought October 8, 1998. Blome molested many other boys from the same area and in other areas. Sheriff's deputies were upset that the Mormon Bishop tipped Blome to the pending investigation, and he burned evidence before it could be seized. In an earlier case against Blome the Mormon Church was also found negligent.

·        Steven L. Hammock-Salt Lake City, Utah in 1989

      This was filed in federal court in Salt Lake City, Utah in 1989. The plaintiff was Michelle Scott, and the case went to a bench trial in October, 1994. The judge awarded damages in "an amount still to be determined." The LDS Church was not a defendant in the case because this case went to the Utah Supreme Court on the issue of the breadth of the priest-penitent privilege. The court held that the privilege included all conversations and information received by a Bishop from a member regardless of whether it was confessional. The LDS Church was not required to disclose any information Hammock had divulged to them. It is unclear what evidence of knowledge on the part of the church the plaintiff had. Michelle Scott had been adopted by the Hammocks', and he abused her from age 6 to age 13. 

·        Cecil B. Jacobsen M.D.

      This is the infamous infertility specialist who was caught using his own sperm to impregnate his female patients. The story came out when several children were born with the same birth defect. He has since moved to Utah. The motive for his actions may have been the wacky Mormon belief that men are to have as many children as possible to increase their posterity in the afterlife when they will rule other planets in heaven.

·        Robert Gene Metcalf-Prescott, Arizona-1979 

This case arose in Prescott, Arizona and was filed in Maricopa County Superior Court in May 1993. In 1979, Gail Metcalf walked in on her husband, Gene Metcalf, and witnessed him having anal sex with a 13 year old boy who had been residing with them. He was sentenced to prison for six years for his misconduct with the boy as well as with Gail's children. She divorced him and the Church excommunicated him. His parental rights were not terminated, but a six-month no contact order was entered following his release from prison. In 1987, Gail Metcalf developed a brain tumor and needed extensive medical treatment. She contacted her local Bishop to discuss what will happen to her chldren while she is hospitalized. Her civil lawsuit alleges that she was ordered by her Bishop and the Stake President to send her children to live with Gene Metcalf and they would monitor the situation for her making certain the children were safe. She sent them to live with him for eight months when they were molested again. At his sentencing, there was heavy lobbying by politicians connected to the Church in defense of Gene Metcalf. Local Bishops involved and who may be named defendants are Grant Shumway and Don Excell. The case was resolved with an undisclosed settlement on behalf of the Metcalf children.

·        Ralph Neeley-Jefferson County, Texas 1995-

This case arose in Jefferson County, Texas (Port Arthur). In January, 1995, the Church settled for an undisclosed amount with the parents of an eight-year-old girl who was repeatedly molested at a Mormon ward (chapel) by Neeley. Neeley was a Mormon priesthood member and his Bishop knew about the allegations but failed to report it. Neeley's acts against the girl were so gross he got life in the criminal trial. Church leaders claim they encouraged Neeley to turn himself in to the police. John Charles Blome (case noted above) and Neeley were friends. Neeley went to prison first. This lesson of not reporting is one the Mormon Bishops might have learned the first time around since both cases involved the same Mormon authorities. Once again they allowed more children to be hurt while protecting the predatory pedophile. The case settled for an undisclosed amount.

·        John D. Parkinson, M. D-Stake President in Fairfield, California -

This case took place in Fairfield, California and was filed in Solano County Superior Court. John D. Parkinson was a Mormon Stake President who used his position of trust as a doctor and religious leader to molest and misdiagnose women and children who attended the Mormon Church. A female member became concerned about his care and collected accounts of his abuse and brought them to the Mormon leadership. He was protected by the Church higher authorities and this woman moved away branded as a troublemaker. This allowed him free reign among the membership and it took years to get his license to practice medicine removed. His license was removed in part for diagnosing women with cancer, prescribing chemotherapy, and then claiming he cured them when they did not have cancer in the first place. This did not stop him from practicing medicine however, and he has since been found guilty of practicing medicine without a license and other crimes related to the earlier allegations.

·        Lloyd Gerald Pond-Salt Lake City, Utah-March 1997

This case was filed in Third District Court in Salt Lake City, Utah. Pond was a Mormon Church spokesman, the host and executive producer of "Times and Seasons", a public affairs program of the LDS Church, broadcast nationally and overseas. The program focused on moral and social issues, including child abuse. Pond groomed an eleven year old girl, eventually photographing her nude and molesting her at age 13. He received a plea bargain which was criticized in the press for being too lenient. The bargain was considered special treatment because of his position and connections. A newspaper article from March 2, 1997 discusses the plaintiff's attempts to obtain discovery of the prosecutor's file in the Pond case and the resistance put up by the Salt Lake City District Attorneys office to the civil subpoena.

Plaintiff's Attorney

David K. Isom

                  60 E. Temple, #1680

                  Salt Lake City, UT 84111

                  +1 801 366-6000

·        Richard Kenneth Ray-Maricopa County, Arizona 1987

The case was filed in Maricopa County, Arizona about 1987. This case involved molestations of a two year-old girl whom Ray and his wife babysat for a year and a half. The suit alleged negligence for the Church's failure to report Ray to authorities and in counseling offered to Ray. This case was the subject of an Arizona Court of Appeals ruling that the priest penitent privilege waiver did not apply because the perpetrator later confessed to police. The court ordered Mormon Bishops to reveal what Ray had told them about prior molestations. The Church settled the case on January 9, 1990, the day of trial, for an undisclosed amount.

·        Michael Rex Shean-Santa Maria, California

      This case arose in Santa Maria, California. Shean was an attorney and Mormon Church leader who used his position as coach, attorney, and religious teacher to groom boys for seduction. The Stake President in the case was an FBI agent, Nolan Phillips, who should have been much more alert to the problem of a predatory pedophile in his flock. The Mormon Church was found negligent and settled for an undisclosed amount.

                  Plaintiff's attorney:

                  William Johnson

                  Bennett, Johnson & Galler

                  Oakland, CA

                  (510)444-5020

Peter Brackner- Purvis Mississippi

Lawsuit alleges child molestation in Columbia, Mississippi man who claims he was molested as a child by a Boy Scout leader is suing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Jason Dunaway, 24, is seeking $25 million and claims in his lawsuit that the Mormon church did nothing to prevent sexual attacks on him by scout master Peter Brackner of Purvis. Dunaway said a Mormon leader was told of the alleged sexual misconduct but did nothing. Dunaway was part of a boy scout troop sponsored by the Columbia Mormon church, according to his lawsuit filed Tuesday in Lamar County Circuit Court. He claims in the lawsuit that the molestation began when he was 11 years old in 1985. A similar lawsuit was filed this spring by a relative of Dunaway's.

John Clark, a Jackson attorney who has represented the Mormon church, said the church "abhors sexual abuse, spousal abuse, any kind of abuse."

·        LaVar Withers M.D.-Rexburg, Idaho-

This case is filed as a class action in the United States District Court for the District of Idaho and arose in Rexburg, Idaho, a Mormon controlled community. The suit does not name the LDS Church as a defendant but

names Madison Memorial Hospital, as well as Withers, and Rexburg

Medical Center. Over 125 women and children came forward to the Rape Crisis Response Center to tell of his abuse over a thirty year period. Numerous women had told their Bishops of his abuse through the years. Still the Mormon Church protected him and helped with his defense denouncing the women as dissatisfied troublemakers. His criminal sentence was extremely light considering his crimes: Thirty days suspended and a small fine. There were eight children in the criminal case. He preyed upon young women who were away from home for the first time attending the local Mormon college. All the victims, prosecutors, judges, doctors and law enforcement are Mormon, so it is unlikely the LDS Church will be named as a defendant for their negligent acts. This is a case where the County ought to sue the Mormon Church for not reporting. One would think the LDS Church would have learned from this case to report suspected abuse.

Unfortunately, the same LDS Church and the same hospital watched silently as a three month old baby, William Genther, was tortured to death. The child was brought to the hospital eight times with serious injuries and it was never reported to authorities. In one of the news accounts it states that the father's stepmother, Gleneen Genther, reported to church authorities that she feared for the infants life. They did nothing.

[12-year-old Girl Gets Divorce]

Originally posted by john doe@Jul 4 2005, 11:48 PM

Dude, I was born and raised "under the covenant", and I have a lengthy mormon pedigree. I wonder what I don't understand about THE CHURCH. My purpose in visiting this web page is not to "make points" or "degrade" THE CHURCH.

I don't give a rat's behind about your "pedigree", what I do know is your posting history here. Care to enlighten us as to what percentage of your posts here are even benignly complimentary to the church? I would guess it couldn't be much more than 2-3%.

You don't think that having sex with a 12 year old falls into the pedophilia category, or just not when discussing people that belong to your religion?

DO you have proof that JS or any other LDS leader had sex with 12 year-olds, or are you simply trying make an invalid point? From what I have read, he may have been sealed to a 14 year-old, but from what I have seen, there is no evidence yet that he had sex with her. It may interest you to know that he was sealed to some men as well, are you implying that he had sex with them as well? You two are some pair.

Are you saying that Joseph Smith might have been bisexual? Ewwww!

[12-year-old Girl Gets Divorce]

Originally posted by Outshined+Jul 4 2005, 08:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Outshined @ Jul 4 2005, 08:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Normal Bob@Jul 4 2005, 07:02 PM

I find it very disturbing that you are defending pedophilia.  I don't think I want to talk to you any more. *shudders*

If that's as grown-up as you get, it's not a serious loss.

By the way, let us know when you find any reference to "pedophilia" in my post; that seems to be in your inflamed imagination...

You don't think that having sex with a 12 year old falls into the pedophilia category, or just not when discussing people that belong to your religion?

[12-year-old Girl Gets Divorce]

Originally posted by Outshined@Jul 4 2005, 04:19 PM

Sounds nice and inflammatory, but is short on evidence... Who were these "many mormons"? Inquiring minds wanna know...

Like it or not, marriage at a young age was very common in the past, even in the 20th century. That was then, this is now.

"Reprehensible"? Hardly; just a different time.

I find it very disturbing that you are defending pedophilia. I don't think I want to talk to you any more. *shudders*

[12-year-old Girl Gets Divorce]

Originally posted by john doe@Jul 4 2005, 03:07 PM

That was pathetic, but if that's all you've got, I guess that's all we're going to get. Thank you for the effort.

You're welcome. And since you so far haven't brought anything to the table, it's all you'll get until you have a valid point to make. Please, bring one next time you post, it'll be more beneficial to all of us.

Back in the olden days, they used to castrate boys so they would have a desirable singing voice. It's okay that they did that back then, because it was a common thing. Just like it isn't reprehensible that many mormons, including Joseph Smith married young girls that were likely pre-menarche.

Does that sound about right to you?

[12-year-old Girl Gets Divorce]

Originally posted by john doe+Jul 4 2005, 08:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (john doe @ Jul 4 2005, 08:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Outshined@Jul 4 2005, 04:45 AM

John, we're pretending that teenage marriage was not a common practice in the 19th century (along with child labor and such). Play along, and they'll be happy...

Oh, okay. See, I thought it was obvious to anyone who knows anything about world history knows that teens being married and even bearing children during the early- and even late- 19th century was not an uncommon occurance. And in case you guys didn't know, it had been going on for centuries before as well. In fact, I have seen some speculations claiming that it is not out of the realm of possibility the Mary, the mother of Jesus, may not have been much older than 14 or 15 when she gave birth.

That being said, and I know how you anti's think, so I will clarify now, that does not in any way justify the practice of teen marriage today. Kids are not ready, for a number of reasons, to enter into that practice today. Were they ready when they practiced those things in earlier centuries? Possibly, I wasn't there then, and neither were you, so it would be hard to judge practices that occurred then by today's standards. The world in general is much different today than it was then, and less emphasis is being placed on preparing young kids for marriage at an early age, if ever, today. The average 14 y/o is not ready for marriage today, while it is not impossible to imagine that in earlier times, young people were ready to make those kinds of commitments. Am I being clear enough for you yet, guys?

That was pathetic, but if that's all you've got, I guess that's all we're going to get. Thank you for the effort.

[12-year-old Girl Gets Divorce]

Originally posted by john doe@Jul 3 2005, 10:52 PM

By creating a false quote attributed to me that I didn't make, your motives have been made quite clear. You appear to be the kind to make up anything to put others in a bad light. I find it hard to believe that you two clowns don't have the ability to find out what kinds of differences there are between 1835 and 2005. Are you both that dense?

The false quote was to illustrate the intentions of your red herring post. Are you going to back up your assertion or not?

[12-year-old Girl Gets Divorce]

Originally posted by john doe@Jul 3 2005, 09:03 PM

Crap! I've been called onto the carpet! It's time for a diversionary tactic!

I'd like to hear what the differences are as well.

[How Important Is Regular Church Attendance?]

Originally posted by Traveler@Jul 2 2005, 02:59 PM

I had a friend tell me he could worship as well in the wilderness as he could at church. My response was - How could you love and server others in the wilderness if you are the only one there?

The Traveler

God is there. Isn't that what counts?

[Schiavo Autopsy Released]

Originally posted by Strawberry Fields+Jun 15 2005, 11:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Strawberry Fields @ Jun 15 2005, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Snow@Jun 15 2005, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by -Strawberry Fields@Jun 15 2005, 05:02 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Outshined@Jun 15 2005, 02:13 PM

"Her brain was profoundly atrophied," Jon Thogmartin, medical examiner for Florida's Pinellas-Pasco County, told a press conference.

ŵhe brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain," he added.

Is it no wonder?

Terri was starved and dehydrated to death. I would think that anyone of us who was tortured the way she was would have lost some mass to our brains along with other organs in the body.

I know that I am a lone soldier on this message board about this but I do not believe that Michael¡Çs motives were pure as he and his attorney make him out to be. Not that it matters, but I also believe that Michael belongs in the same category as some other high profile cases i.e. O.J. Simpson and Michael Jackson.

I am happy that Terri is no longer suffering at the hands of her monster of a ¡Èhusband¡É

You don¡Çt have to dispute this, these are my feelings and because they are my feelings it is true for me.

May Terri rest in peace.

Thanks.

Strawberry,

You ought to examine your reasoning process. Somehow you equate a legal guardian exercising the rights and responsibilities legally and morally granted to him with a double murderer.

That's lugumbios.

You don¡Çt have to dispute this, these are my feelings and because they are my feelings it is true for me.

I am entitled to my own opinion period.

Why is it that you have not piped up in response of one of my posts since that last Terri Shiavo thread? You know how strongly I feel about this yet you seem to rejoice in being an ***********.

I can see you reasoning if we were talking about a person that has been left mentally deficient, but we are talking about a person that is brain dead. What is a person without a functioning brain that will never recover? Is it humane to let a person "live" like that?

[Schiavo Autopsy Released]

It seems to me that Terry died ten years ago. All Michael did was pull the plug on the shell that his wife used to live in. I don't think letting a dead person die is a criminal act, but an act of compassion.

Or to put it another way,

The woman's brain was dead. Only her body was being kept alive. How is that a good thing?

[The Worlds Fo Joseph Smith]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Jun 15 2005, 05:32 PM

I have one!

In the BoM, Jesus appears as a perfected (exalted?) resurrected being.

Science is on the verge of proving that we can clone a human being...and not only that...genetic engineering could possibly result in breeding improved human beings.

Put the two together, and you have the scientific possibility of "resurrection" in a perfect body.

So that is one BoM truth that might be possibly proven soon (and it also would be proof for the New Testament).

The question is:

Will humanity learn to resurrect itself before Christ resurrects us?

If so, what are the biblical implications?

[Temple Marriage To Include Non Members]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Jun 14 2005, 10:57 PM

No non-members do not belong in the Temple.

They do not have the gifts of the spirit to truly understand.

Yes, they are not as worthy to God as you and I are. After all, they belong to the wrong sect of Christianity. Jesus will let them burn in hell for not accepting the right sect of Christianity.

They will all burn in hell for not accepting the right Jesus.

BURN!

[The Worlds Fo Joseph Smith]

Originally posted by leeuniverse@Jun 9 2005, 07:49 PM

Session Two however is sadly missing the last two speakers. I'm bumbed because I think one of them had a nice chart which showed 1800's science compared to the Book of Mormon, and todays science compared to the Book. Science has validated a bunch of Book of Mormon claims.

Absolutely it has. Which ones?