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General rule, if you did not initiate the phone/text/email contact it is fake. If you are concerned, disconnect from the conversation, look up the number for said entity and call that number and see if they are trying to reach you. Police don't call and tell you that you have a warrant and if you pay a fee you are good. We come get you and take you to jail.7 points
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I'll just open a potential can of worms... Can ICE enter temples?
Carborendum and 5 others reacted to estradling75 for a topic
My mother is a resident alien... She has her green card and everything. I have no problem with immigration and those that want to come here and make a better life for themself. I also know that our current system for legal immigration is a horrible mess of a bureaucratic nightmare which needs a massive overhaul. So I have a great deal of sympathy for those that more or less just skip it out of frustration/confusion or what ever. I understand the the basic drive of a choice between a of hard, cumbersome, expensive, legal way vs cheap, easy, fast, illegal way. Now I hear a lot about fixing the second option aka make it harder (walls, cameras, guards, more ICE enforcement etc.) which I generally support but I hear nothing from either party about fixing the first option. That is where I think we need to be focusing. If we make the legal option more viable, more attractive, more doable... Then the second option start losing its appeal to the people we want immigrating. We will still need to make the second option harder because that will still be the only option for criminals/terrorists but if the first option is improved it makes it harder for them to hide among the good people that we want.6 points -
contemplating a long-distance relationship
Carborendum and 4 others reacted to Ironhold for a topic
This past week has been very trying for my parents and I IRL, culminating in a major freak-out yesterday when dad nearly got some malware on the computer. For obvious reasons, we've been doing a lot of praying. Over the past few weeks, as I've prayed I've asked to know how I should proceed with the situation in the opening post. Last night, while at work, once everyone else was gone I felt compelled to say some prayers again. This time, I asked that Heavenly Father would help her find the person who could support her and give her what she needed, even if it wasn't me. With everything she's had going, she deserves at least that much. I was running deliveries when a single phrase came to mind, almost as if out of nowhere: "she found you". Not sure if this is indeed the answer or not (let's face it, with the life I've had, some days I just don't know anymore), but if it is then I've got a lot of work to do getting where I need to be for her sake.5 points -
I'll just open a potential can of worms... Can ICE enter temples?
mirkwood and 4 others reacted to estradling75 for a topic
If ICE jumped though all the legal hoops then yes they could and the Church would have to allow it and deal with things after words. That being said the legal landscape can be a bit murky and the Church could use legal channels to push back, but that would most likely be after the fact. The bigger question would be why would ICE be trying to enter the Temple? They would be looking for undocumented/illegal people. Now such members might indeed be going to the the Temples or even working there... but how would ICE know to plan a raid? ICE is more likely to be able to gather enough information about residences/and places of work, more then they are Temple attendance. So that is the logical place for them to focus.5 points -
What exactly did Elijah restore in the Kirtland temple?
askandanswer and 4 others reacted to Just_A_Guy for a topic
You should read Stapley’s “The Power of Godliness”. It’s heavy stuff—I really need to do a second reading of it to get a better handle on the material; he really digs into the way that our ideas on “priesthood” have developed over the history of the Church —but for purposes of this discussion it is maybe most relevant to note that Stapley claims that early LDS anointings for health did not include a “sealing” component until after Elijah’s return. He notes that modern confirming-of-anointings-for-health are the only modern approved use of the sealing power outside of temples.5 points -
LDS beliefs on Judaism
pam and 4 others reacted to estradling75 for a topic
Because the people you are interacting with have learned some lessons from History. The fruit of the tree of your third point is one that is very corrupt, bitter, and evil. And those that tend to such trees and partake of that fruit often become what they eat... corrupt, bitter, and evil. We do not know how far along you are in consumption of this evil fruit, but we are concerned, because you have started. Your third point historically leads to things like genocide, holocausts, enslavement, etc. Most people have a profoundly negative response to others that try to justify such evil, and you have started on such a path even if you didn't really mean to5 points -
@Gecko45, you have come to the right place. I am of pure European Jewish descent and a faithful member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You've descended down a rabbit hole that goes into a very dark place, and I hope you can extricate yourself. My ancestors are among the generations of Jews who have suffered and died because of these beliefs. First, let's talk about "Jews." Ethnically, Jews are the descendants of people who lived in Judea after the 10 tribes living in the ancient northern kingdom of Israel were carried away into Assyria. If you are an Ephraimite, then you are still descended from a brother of Judah, Joseph. Most of the inhabitants of Judea were of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin (the smallest tribe), and Levi (temple servants). People nowadays with last names like Cohen, Kahn, and the like have some background in the tribe of Levi, for example. Lehi, however, would have been considered Jewish because he was from Judea. The Book of Mormon centers the guilt for Christ's death on the Jews at Jerusalem (2 Nephi 10:5), exonerating all other Jews. At the time, there were a HUGE number of Jews in the diaspora, including about 1 million in the Egyptian/Greek city of Alexandria, Egypt. That said, the world has considered all Jews as Christ-killers, and there lies the central problem for Jews to be safe. The Lord has seen fit to allow pogroms and mass killing of Jews through the centuries, but He also judges the world in part by their treatment of Jews. Jewishness has always been judged as an ethnicity and not just a religion. When this happens (as you are doing), it condemns all Jews and people of Jewish descent by race, which is anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism has all sorts of excuses for hatred of the Jews, many of which you have named. There are lots more, causing anti-Semitism in both the leftist and rightist movements in the US. Hitler actually conducted a census with 4 columns (among others) for identifying grandparents as Jewish or not. One Jewish grandparent qualified a person for the death camps. Interestingly, coming censuses in the US require all Americans of Jewish descent to no longer list themselves as white. I have always been White on various documents all my life, but now (even though I'm very fair-skinned), I must list my ethnicity/race as MENA (Middle East/North Africa). This change seems to justify Zionism and exonerate Jews of being invaders of their own ancient land, but I can't see any good in it. Although descendants of Jacob/Israel originated in the Holy Land, more recent locations have separated them into 3 ethnic groups--Ashkenazi (European), Sephardi (ejected from Spain), and Mizrachi (Middle Eastern Jews). Another interesting thing is that America's standard list of ethnicities contains no Jewish groups at all. As a religion, Judaism is not at all monolithic. The main groups are Ultra-Orthodox, Orthodox, Conservative, Reformed, and Humanistic Jews, from most religious to least. Two main things might increase your understanding. 1) The Law of Moses' purpose was to separate Israel from pagan people to keep them pure. This has isolated Jews (sometimes by choice) into their own separated villages and neighborhoods, especially because of the law to walk fewer than 1,000 steps to reach a synagogue. This separateness has caused rumors and suspicions to rage at various times among non-Jews. The Law of Moses also forbade Jews from entering certain professions but also approved of certain professions abhorred by Orthodox Christians (such as physiology and banking). These things have increased anti-Semitism. 2) There is very little information in the Tanakh (Old Testament) about an afterlife. Because of this, Jews focus very hard on mortality and improving the mortal experience. Whereas a Christian might concern himself about spending eternity in hell if he runs a porn site, there is no such concern in Judaism. It's also very easy to be an agnostic or atheistic Jew (like my father, who was a very moral, kind astrophysicist) because you are still a traditional or ethnic Jew.5 points
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There is an "audit" of the faculty. Those not supporting and sustaining church standards are likely going to find themselves unemployed. Per the news I have read on the topic. Frankly, there is an anti-LDS cancer at BYU that needs to be purged.5 points
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Brandon Sanderson goes full woke and betrays gospel values?
mirkwood and 4 others reacted to Just_A_Guy for a topic
Two semi-random observations: 1) Sanderson has “to-heck-with-you-and-the-horse-you-rode-in-on” kind of money. He doesn’t have to write a dadgum thing that he doesn’t want to write. 2) There is currently something of a minor reformation going on at BYU. Whether Sanderson is still employed there when the dust settles, is anyone’s guess.5 points -
God's gift of the Holy Spirit
MrShorty and 3 others reacted to Just_A_Guy for a topic
Welcome aboard! As you likely know, glossolalia was practiced in the early LDS Church (the first known instance involved Brigham Young, and those with him were skeptical about it until Joseph Smith himself expressed approval). It occurred intermittently through the late territorial period, with Eliza Snow being a noted practitioner. JS taught that a true manifestation of the gift would always be accompanied by another person present being given the gift of interpretation. I think that as the world has tilted more towards rationalism, and in conjunction with D&C 50 (and the circumstances that underlay that revelation), European and American Saints have gotten more suspicious of those sorts of “charismatic” spiritual gifts—both because we are culturally groomed to find them unseemly, and because they are so easily counterfeited by the adversary. (And even if you think you’re experiencing the gift, it takes a lot to put yourself publicly “out there” and have faith that someone else will get the interpretation and that you won’t end up looking like a complete kook). We expect not to receive these sorts of manifestations—and so, we don’t.4 points -
Borders, Trade and International Developments
askandanswer and 3 others reacted to mirkwood for a topic
The ridiculous story about the "red horse," and "the black horse," and "the white horse," and a lot of trash that has been circulated about and printed and sent around as a great revelation given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, is a matter that was gotten up, I understand, some ten years after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by two of our brethren who put together some broken sentences from the Prophet that they may have-heard him utter from time to time, and formulated this so called revelation out of it, and it was never spoken by the prophet in the manner in which they have put it forth. It is simply false: that is all there is to it. (Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1918, p.58.)4 points -
It was a unanimous decision as it was (as far as finding for the Church). Three different opinions were all vehemently against the plaintiff. 6 judges said: 4 judges said: The final judge If all 11 judges bashed the plaintiff with a variety of legal reasons, it is pretty obvious that this was a non-starter.4 points
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Random What-If: The Church In Texas
Carborendum and 3 others reacted to Ironhold for a topic
This is something that, it turns out, a lot of members of the church don't know about, let alone non-members. https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/entries/mormon-mill-colony Before Joseph Smith's death, he was looking to send a scouting party to Texas to see if it was suitable for settlement in case the church needed to leave Illinois. Joseph's death and the forced flight to Utah meant that the main body of the church wouldn't arrive in the state for some time, but an offshoot group did in fact set up camp in Texas. Their colony was located near the present-day city of Marble Falls, and in fact Mormon Mill Road is a rural road running through a part of that region. Yes, there is now a chapel in Marble Falls, and it's actually not that far from where the road runs. To me, this is something of a curious what-if scenario. Suppose, for a second, that Joseph had in fact lived long enough to order the church to start colonizing Texas. How might that have played out? The most pressing thing I can think of is the Civil War. The church largely managed to sit it out due to Utah being strategically unimportant and neither side really pushing for the members to join up, but Texas went for the Confederacy and suffered some significant losses accordingly.4 points -
U&T v. Seer Stone
JohnsonJones and 3 others reacted to Just_A_Guy for a topic
Where do we get the idea that David never saw the translation process? A significant portion of the work was done (and the job was finished) at his family's farm, in the small cabin in which the Church would later be organized. Whitmer claimed, in his Address to All Believers (p. 11), that he saw the work being done. Joseph Smith himself said that David Whitmer was available to serve as a scribe for him (see here, p. 8). You've also forced () me to drag out my copy of Brandt Gardner's Translating the Book of Mormon, wherein he also cites an 1883 account by William Smith in which William claims JS used "the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light" and an 1870 account by Elizabeth Whitmer Cowdery (who would grow up to marry Oliver Cowdery) who wrote that "[JS] translated the most of [the Book of Mormon] at my Father's house. And I often sat by and saw and heard them translate and write for hours together. Joseph never had a curtain drawn between him and his scribe while he was translating. He would place the director in his hat, and then place his <face in his> hat, so as to exclude the light, and then [read?] to his scribe the words (he said) as they appeared before him." Translating the Book of Mormon, 7 [editorial marks original to Gardner]. As I understand it, the interpreters recovered with the plates were attached to the breastplate but resembled eyeglasses or "spectacles" and could be detached. Even so, as Don Bradley writes in The Lost 116 Pages, Some nineteenth-century reporters say that the lenses of the interpreters were set too wide for Joseph's eyes, making it uncomfortable for him to use them simultaneously while they rested on the rod [that linked the two stones]. Joseph's father, a wearer of spectacles himself, reportedly said that the interpreters were set one and a half inches wider than the lenses of ordinary spectacles, indicating either that Joseph was not using it in the way intended by its inventor or that the device holding the interpreters was designed for a person of extraordinary size. The Lost 116 Pages, 49. Bradley goes on to bring in some really interesting descriptions of the interpreters to explain how they link to the symbols of the compass and square, and points out additional logistical issues that may have been presented by using the interpreters. Harris outright says it, IIRC. Emma heavily implies it, saying explicitly that after the loss of the 116 pages the brown stone, not the interpreters (which she labeled the "Urim and Thummim"), were used. Gardner cites to a couple of other historians (separate articles by Stephen Ricks and John Welch), but I'm not sure what additional primary sources they may have used in formulating their conclusions. See Translating the Bo0ok of Mormon, 290-291, note 25. Weellll . . . sort of. First off--as an aside, Gardner's Translating the Book of Mormon also addresses the linguistic evolution through which the interpreters/seer stone were Biblicized as the "Urim and Thummim". See pp. 127-129. As for the Elder's Journal article: The thing about it is that as you read the entire article it becomes pretty evident that in that particular forum Joseph is by turns being facetious, flippant, and/or evasive. On a variety of topics he obviously knows far more than he's telling: Question 1st. Do you believe the bible? Answer. If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does. For there are none of the religious sects of the day that do. [Is that doctrine, Brother Joseph? ] Question 3rd. Will every body be damned but Mormons? Answer. Yes, and a great portion of them,unless they repent and work righteousness. [Now, Brother Joseph; don't tease us. You received D&C 76 six years ago!] Question 5th. Do you believe Joseph Smith Jr. to be a prophet? Answer. Yes, and every other man who has the testimony of Jesus. “For the testimony of Jesus, is the spirit of prophecy.”—Rev. 19: 10. [Brother Joseph! I get that you're trying to make friends and elevate those around you, but don't sell yourself short here!] Question 6th. Do the Mormons believe in having all things common? Answer. No. [Brother Joseph, you were getting revelations on the United Order seven years ago. Are you sure there isn't more you'd like to say here?] Question 7th. Do the Mormons believe in having more wives than one. Answer. No, not at the same time. But they believe, that if their companion dies, they have a right to marry again. But we do disapprove of the custom which has gained in the world, and has been practised among us, to our great mortification, of marrying in five or six weeks, or even in two or three months after the death of their companion. We believe that due respect ought to behad, to the memory of the dead, and the feelings of both friends and children. [Brother Joseph, haven't you already received the fundamentals of what will later be canonized as D&C 132? Does the name Fanny Alger ring a bell?] And from there, the interview morphs on into playful banter as Smith addresses questions about whether he was a money digger, whether he stole his wife, etc; as well as more serious questions about, e.g., abolitionism (where he insists, contra earlier Church publications, that "we do not believe in setting the Negroes free"). The point I'm trying to make here is not that Joseph is being deliberately dishonest in this article. But he is being evasive; he is giving simplistic and glib answers and refusing to be publicly drawn out on topics that are by turn complicated, sacred, and/or deeply personal. Seven years ago, Joseph had publicly told Hyrum that "it was not intended to tell the world all the particulars of the coming forth of the book of Mormon, & also said that it was not expedient for him to relate these things &c." I don't think we should read the Elders' Journal article as an attempt to comprehensively and publicly expose what Joseph had already defined to be sacred and confidential.4 points -
Apparently I'm a sucker. There's one born every minute they say.
askandanswer and 3 others reacted to LDSGator for a topic
Intelligence has nothing to do with it-it’s based on emotion.4 points -
What exactly did Elijah restore in the Kirtland temple?
laronius and 3 others reacted to mordorbund for a topic
D&C 128 has shaped most of my understanding of Elijah’s sealing keys. I frame it in terms of bookkeeping. You mention Peter, James, and John receiving keys and giving them to Joseph Smith. Matthew records that Peter is promised the keys of the kingdom and defines them with sealing and loosing power. D&C 27 reiterates that they have the “keys of my kingdom”. When a person dies, he is judged by the heavenly records. Now why is it that heavenly judges rely on earthly books? Surely not all earthly books carry the same weight in judgment (my autobiography will be called Mostly True Tales). The keys of the kingdom include that portion of the sealing keys which record the works of authorized servants on earth and bind it in heaven. “Were you baptized? Ah, I see here that your bishop recorded it was done.” “Oh no! It looks like Alma blotted your name out, there’s no record of you as a citizen in God’s kingdom” Elijah revealed a fuller use of the sealing keys. The initiate no longer had to be physically present for the record to be made. When discussing the sealing power we turn to capstone ordinances in the temple, but Joseph is here using it to discuss baptisms for the dead. It may be worthwhile to study a little on how the term summum bonum has been used. He may have just as well written that this was the philosophers stone. Vicarious ordinances are a game changer, but what is the catalyst? Why of course Elijah’s sealing power, manifest in the most pedestrian manner. When a person dies, a record can be made of his works in absentia. These books are also bound in heaven just like the other books of the kingdom. Therefore, “there should be a recorder, who should be eye-witness, and also to hear with his ears, that he might make a record of a truth before the Lord.” And “therefore, as a church and a people, and as Latter-day Saints, offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness; and let us present in his holy temple, when it is finished, a book containing the records of our dead, which shall be worthy of all acceptation.”4 points -
Trump just won the election
mirkwood and 3 others reacted to NeuroTypical for a topic
That's because you're not a woman. Honestly, it doesn't really matter how this particular debate goes, or any debate goes. Here's how the footnote of history will read: - The humans of planet earth have all shared the same definition for man and woman throughout recorded history. Outliers have always existed. - Somewhere in the early to mid 21st century, some folks thought they had a better definition, a better way to better include some of the outliers. - The other 99.9999999% of the population said "ok, persuade me". - Y'all made your best case. A couple of scholarly things about how gender is a spectrum. Many opinions advanced and arguments made about how thinking binary isn't the best way. Endless, endless nasty tricks involving intimidation tactics, algorithm boosting, appeals to emotion, accusations of bigotry, lobbying, high-pressure tactics. In a small handful of the 1st world nations, it was effective enough to swing elections and get policies changed. Folks didn't want to see themselves on the wrong end of "you can either have a living son or a dead daughter". Folks didn't want to be the victim of cancel culture. Folks all want to be thought of inclusive and loving and morally just, so they went along with it. Plus, after having spent endless millenia with a definition that was never questioned, nobody had a rapid response to any of it. - The notion, at its height, persuaded upwards of 8-12% of the world's humans, mostly found in the richest and most egalitarian nations. - The majority of humans never found the proposals and redefinitions convincing. The humans largely discarded the notion, and by 2027 there were no further serious threats to the traditional definition of sex and gender. Many humans did learn to be a bit more understanding of outliers. But the radical redefinition of words and culture to account for them never reached critical mass.4 points -
Trump just won the election
Vort and 3 others reacted to NeuroTypical for a topic
Winning isn't the only issue. Women have been getting injured by bio males in such frequency that the UN finally called for a ban. The document is called "Violence against women and girls, its causes and consequences" https://documents.un.org/doc/undoc/gen/n24/249/94/pdf/n2424994.pdf Section III (Manifestations of violence against women and girls in sports), item A (Physical violence), paragraph 7: "Female athletes are also more vulnerable to sustaining serious physical injuries when female-only sports spaces are opened to males,9 as documented in disciplines such as in volleyball,10 basketball11 and soccer.12 Instances have been reported where adult males have been included in teams of underage girls. 13 Injuries have included knocked-out teeth,14 concussions resulting in neural impairment,15 broken legs16 and skull fractures.17 According to scientific studies, males have certain performance advantages in sports. One study asserts that, even in non-elite sport, “the least powerful man produced more power than the most powerful woman” and states that, where men and women have roughly the same levels of fitness, males’ average punching power has been measured as 162 per cent greater than females. 18" The link will provide details to footnotes 9-18, if anyone is interested. Here's a really, REALLY good article about problems and good solutions: https://womeninsport.org/safe-and-fair-sport-for-women-and-girls/4 points -
So what's up with Musk's seeming Nazi-lookalike salute to Trump?
Milluw and 3 others reacted to Carborendum for a topic
It wasn't a Nazi salute. It was a Roman salute. It means exactly what he said just afterward. "My heart goes out to you." If people weren't on edge to look for any misstep and just accept it for what it was, then there would be no controversy.4 points -
LDS beliefs on Judaism
LDSGator and 3 others reacted to prisonchaplain for a topic
I'm not LDS or Jewish, though I've worked with both. In the west, when the economy is bad, conspiracy theories about Jews become popular. In Asia, the same happens to Chinese Christians. Both groups, ironically like LDS, tend to have higher social and economic success. My wife is Korean, and there is a popular book in her country on how Jewish people educate their children. So many of the tropes against Jews in the west, and Chinese Christians in the east, come down to class envy. They succeed so something must be afoot--especially if I'm not succeeding. Hate is addictive. Trends and correlation do not make causation. I suspect that the reason Jewish people generally, and Chinese Christians generally do well in the world is because they follow sound, pro-social practices. Alas, it's easier to blame the successful than to look honestly at my own failures.4 points -
Hi, Gecko, and welcome. I am not a hobbyist historian, so my knowledge of history is limited to an unimpressive general education and whatever I might Google up. But I'm happy to try to help. And welcome home from your mission! I hope it was an ennobling experience for you. Obviously, I can't speak for the Church, but I'll offer whatever insights I can. The first insight is this: Such questions should not ruin your life. As you taught on your mission, a testimony is a revelation from God to your spirit and your mind and/or heart. If your testimony is firm and is the foundation of your faith, you begin to become unshakeable. Such questions might be a curiosity to you, but they should not threaten that foundation, and certainly should not ruin your life. So before you worry too deeply about these questions regarding Jews, I would suggest that you reestablish your own foundation. If you're investigating these questions in a panic and with a feeling that your life is in the process of ruination, you will find it difficult or impossible to be guided by the Spirit. My reasoning is thus: Solomon's Temple was recognized as a temple and as a holy edifice even when it was desecrated. A "temple" is from the Latin word templum, which means "consecrated space". What makes a space consecrated or hallowed? In the Church, we would say that God does so, but normal usage of the word allows people to simply agree that a place is hallowed, even without a formal Priesthood ordinance or prayer. So in this sense, I would say that, yes, the Jews could certainly build a temple to the Lord. The other side of the coin is that a temple that is hallowed by God will certainly, undoubtedly be constructed under the auspices of God's kingdom (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) and will be dedicated and consecrated by the power of the Lord's Priesthood, which does not exist among men outside the kingdom of God. So to have a working, functional temple in any real sense (that is, whether or not it e.g. offers the endowment or proxy work for the dead) requires the involvement of the Church. So depending on what must take place at what time, the answer could be either way. Cursed by whom? By men? Absolutely. The Jews have been cursed and hated for literally thousands of years. Or do you mean a divine curse? No, I disbelieve that Jews as a group have been cursed by God. On the contrary, they are a covenant people. To the extent that the Jewish nation (meaning the people of the world called Jews, not necessarily the modern state of Israel) may not have kept its covenants with God, it's possible that they have suffered, and perhaps continue to suffer, the effects of a broken covenant. But the idea that God has somehow ordained the Jews to be cast out and persecuted through the ages? No way. I don't believe that for a moment. The historic persecution of the Jews is evidence that sinful, fallen mankind acts in a sinful and fallen way. It can be seen as evidence that those who follow Satan are taught to vilify and reject the people and the things of God. I think it's a grave error to suppose that the Jews are suffering because they are cursed by God or did such evil things two thousand years ago. It seems like that because that is how many of those who hate Jews have framed the issue. The examples you give are false or out of context. For example, Pornhub is owned by Mindgeek, the owners of many pornography websites. Mindgeek (now called Aylo) is not owned by a rabbi. It was created by a German businessman named Fabian Thylmann, who as far as I can tell is not Jewish. OnlyFans is owned by Leonid Radvinsky, a Ukrainian with a name that could possibly be Jewish, but I can't find evidence that he is Jewish. In any case, Radvinsky has publicly denied that he either made or pledged the supposed $11 million donation to AIPAC. Jews are vastly overrepresented in many areas of creativity and high intelligence, in Hollywood and in professions such as law and medicine. This can be explained by a wide variety of social and historical factors, but to my mind it is best explained by a biological factor: Jews as a group are more intelligent than other people. Not just a little bit more intelligent, either. Ashkenazi Jews, those found in eastern Europe, have been shown to test a full 15 IQ points—one standard deviation—above the population at large in Europe and the US. That is, where the average IQ is set at 100, Ashkenazi Jews test on average at 115. This is an enormous difference. It means that the average Jewish school pupil is as smart as the "smart people" in a given class. That means that: About half of a Jewish population will test in the top 15% of worldwide intelligence. Half. In the top 15%. Something over two-sevenths of Jews will test in the top 2% of worldwide intelligence. Top 2% of achievers? That group will include 15% of all Jews. Find the one-in-a-thousand people, those whose IQs test at or above 99.9% of everyone else. Call this group the One-In-A-Thousanders. Of a random group of a thousand people (non-Jews), on average only ONE will be in this group. Now, take a random group of a thousand Jews. How many do you suppose will be in the One-In-A-Thousander group? Answer: On average, about 23 Jews in that group of 1000. Is it any wonder that Jews are now (and historically have always been) very heavily overrepresented in positions requiring high intelligence and high achievement? I have a son that attended a fancy-pants, big-time law school. About half of his professors were Jewish. This is not a coincidence. Nor is it coincidence that among the famous physicists of the 20th century (surely the most amazing century of all recorded history for brilliant physicists), Of sixteen outstanding physicists in the 20th century that I can think of off the top of my head, ten were Jewish: Einstein, Feynman, Oppenheimer, Landau, Bethe, Wigner, von Neumann, Bohr, Pauli, and Gell-Mann. That's simply mind-boggling. I don't know what else to call it. The Jews are the ancient covenant people of God. They are a people of singular and amazing ability. Those who have such gifts can use those gifts for great good or for great evil, so we should not be surprised to find such people well represented on both sides of the fence. But I urge you to divest yourself of feelings of hatred or rage or anger toward Jews. Whatever certain individuals may or may not do, the Jewish people as a group do not merit your dislike. They have suffered from the hatred of others and from the evils arising from that hatred for literally millennia. Remember, Jesus was a Jew. So were literally all of His disciples during His mortal ministry. These are the historic people of God, people of the covenant, the people with whom we are adopted in to the family of God. Not sure why your questions generated such antipathy among so many here, most of whom are normally quite rational and kind in their dealings with others. I guess perceived anti-Semitism really rubs some people the wrong way. In any case, I hope my words were of some use to you. And again, welcome!4 points
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The Scottish Saints
HaggisShuu and 3 others reacted to mordorbund for a topic
One other point I’ll mention before undertaking a sizable relocation. My dad once told me the story of an old man who sat along a major highway back in the day. A traveler stopped and said, “Hey feller, I’m headed to that town up ahead and wonder if you can tell me what the people there are like?” ”Well,” says the old timer, “why don’t you tell what the people are like where you came from?” The traveler replied, “Those people?! Why they are some of the meanest people you’ll ever meet! Most of them need a good punch in the face and the rest also deserve but you haven’t found out why yet. They’ll talk behind your back, savage your reputation, separate you from your friends, and leave you wondering if you have any sanity left. I wish a pox on the whole bunch of thieving, lying, cheating slobs!” ”I’m sorry to tell you,” the old man started, “but you’ll find a lot of people like that where you’re headed.” The traveler swore under his breath and moved on. A few hours later another traveler headed to the same town stopped by the old timer. “Hey feller, I’m headed to that town up ahead and wonder if you can tell me what the people there are like?” ”Well,” says the old timer, “why don’t you tell what the people are like where you came from?” The traveler replied, “Those are some of the finest people you’ll ever know. They’re hospitable to strangers and even more generous with friends. They’ll cry with you, celebrate with you, root for you, and remind you there’s better days ahead. I’m almost sorry I left.” ”You’ll be happy to hear,” the old man started, “that you’ll find a lot of people like that where you’re headed.”4 points -
LDS beliefs on Judaism
DurangoUT01 and 3 others reacted to zil2 for a topic
Dude's frontal lobe isn't even done developing. Maybe he's being ridiculous, maybe he's not. We don't know enough yet. You people are as brutal and unforgiving as the LGBTQ+ mob attacking the Southern Baptists. In the absence of sufficient information you've decided he's a rabid anti-Semite. In the absence of sufficient information I'm willing to believe maybe he's just a confused kid. Do you people really think that attacking this kid is going to convince him of anything (other than maybe that this is a hateful place)? Do you think he'll give you a chance to reason with him and help him understand that he is indeed doing the ridiculous thing that LDSGator demonstrated? And does all that seem Christlike to you? What if OP really is a rabid anti-Semite? You're certainly not helping him to back off that position. How many scriptures and General Conference talks do I need to quote before you catch on that no matter how awful anti-Semitism is, responding to this kid with unfounded attacks, assuming the worst of him, is not the way to help him or anyone else?4 points -
Greenland
zil2 and 3 others reacted to Just_A_Guy for a topic
Statehood for Canada and Greenland would mean four more Dem seats in the Senate, and half a dozen reliably blue votes in the electoral college. Probably more; since I can’t possibly visualize Candy agreeing to be *only one* state. I don’t think it’s right to deprive Canadians or Greenlanders of the right to take part in electing their national government; and I frankly don’t want either culture having a say in *my* elected national government.4 points -
Yep. BYU has always struggled with balancing doctrinal fidelity with worldly recognition and acclaim. I do not blame the institution for this; it's kind of all rolled up in that ball of wax. If you're going to offer a university that grants recognized degrees, I don't see how you avoid the issue. But it has always been a problem, and it highlights the absolute need for the school's top administration to be first and foremost faithful Latter-day Saints who love the gospel.4 points
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Brandon Sanderson goes full woke and betrays gospel values?
Just_A_Guy and 3 others reacted to zil2 for a topic
IMO, there's a difference here: Sanderson is not just including LGBTQ+ characters (and their words and actions) in ways that reflect the world around him. He is also, in the real world, promoting things that are contrary to what the Church teaches. (This is the greater concern than what's in his stories.) Creating the thing from your imagination is very different from swiping someone's credit card, or setting someone's alcoholic drink on the table. It may be that one has to experience the creation of characters and stories to understand this, but trust me, the difference huge. His characters and their actions are alive inside his head. They are infinitely more real than the person on the other side of the counter or seated at the table (because he knows the characters, whereas the cashier and the waiter(ess) don't know the customer). And he experiences far more of their thoughts, feelings, words, and actions than the reader ever sees on the page.4 points -
Woke Shoots Itself In The Foot
NeuroTypical and 2 others reacted to Ironhold for a topic
The more free a society is, the more free it is to make questionable decisions.3 points -
Temple & Book of Abraham
Carborendum and 2 others reacted to zil2 for a topic
Someone somewhere referenced the video I'll put below. It talks about the Book of Abraham and temple ordinances (specifically in ancient Egypt). How long must we wait for people to "catch up" with the gospel before we can learn like this in Sunday School? I don't necessarily mean the historic, Egyptian temple rites, but finding the temple rites in scripture! Our manuals are all watered down to the weakest of the saints - the ones who show up at Church and do little more as far as I can tell. Every time someone points me to something like this, I lament that it wasn't being taught in Church 10 years earlier... Thankfully, I've been coming across more and more things like this online - faithful things, not whacked out extreme stretches to force some pet idea into the gospel. It's very frustrating to me. You fortunate people can watch them with spouse and old-enough children and have discussions with them. Klaw and Smoke just look at me and have nothing helpful to add... This is why I wish Church were still 3 hours - or better, 4! (Not that it would matter - see my first lament.) Be grateful for your blessings. Also, watch this video:3 points -
Mr. Bennet
Just_A_Guy and 2 others reacted to Vort for a topic
@Jamie123's interesting thread about Mr. Collins has led me to reflect once again on the character of Mr. Bennet. Austen's greatest genius may have been in creating and portraying highly realistic, fully fleshed-out characters, and Mr. Bennet is one of my favorite Austen characters. His flaws invite reflection. Mr. Bennet is such an enjoyable character, not because he's a cynical and sarcastic troll, but because he is a basically decent and caring individual who indulges his own worst self to so often become a cynical and sarcastic troll. Mr. Bennet (I don't believe any first name is ever given) is a highly intelligent, basically good-natured man with a sharp sense of humor and a cutting wit. His family situation is as follows: He married the beautiful but not-very-intelligent (or at least not very clever) Miss Gardiner. (The BBC/A&E miniseries names her "Fanny", but no given name is ever specified in the novel.) It is worth noting that Miss Gardiner's brother, aptly named Mr. Gardiner, is a highly intelligent man, one of those charming and impressive lawyers I was talking about. So the intelligence is in her bloodline somewhere, but apparently found little expression in her. Mr. and Mrs. Bennet were parents to five daughters. It is worthwhile understanding the basic personalities and characteristics of these five young women: The eldest, Jane, is blessed with striking beauty, a sharp mind and wit, and a very calm and pleasing demeanor. The second, Elizabeth, is similarly endowed with beauty and intelligence, though she is portrayed as perhaps not quite as beautiful as Jane—in speaking with Jane, Elizabeth humorously notes that she (Jane) is "about five times as pretty as every other woman in the room"—but perhaps even more clever. Moreover, she inherited her father's sense of humor and occasionally cutting wit. The third, Mary, is the odd duck out in that she is not as beautiful as her four sisters, and attempts to make up for her comparative plainness by nurturing her other feminine charms, such as piano playing. The fourth is named Catherine and is familiarly called Kitty, and had never really developed her own mind or wit. She's a bit of a follower, and tends to follow her younger sister Lydia's lead. The youngest, Lydia, has all the charm of her sisters and, like her sisters (except perhaps Mary) is quite pretty, but also headstrong and unconcerned about trifles such as reputation and decorum. In the book, Mr. Bennet must be at least in his mid to late forties, and is probably in his fifties. Mr. Bennet tolerates his wife, but only barely. He is not cruel or harsh, but he is not kind to her, and he does not protect her from societal evils that he thinks she has brought on herself. On the contrary, he allows himself to laugh at and mock his wife's weaknesses. This reprehensible habit does not go unnoticed by his daughters, and is one deep and important way that he fails them. Mr. Bennet authentically loves his daughters, and is especially fond of Elizabeth and Jane. This is important: Bennet likes his two oldest daughters exactly because they are intelligent and show some depth of character. He loves his other three daughters, but he "teases" them mercilessly, meaning he constantly makes fun of them and points out their stupidity for his own amusement. Mary, Bennet's middle daughter, is perhaps the most extreme victim of this neglect. She lacks much of the beauty, grace, and charm of her sisters, and thus needs her father's support and encouragement all the more. But she doesn't get it. Jane Austen herself didn't seem to like Mary very much; how sad is that? Of all the sisters, I think Mary is the unhappiest and most to be pitied. Yes, she exposed herself to ridicule and contempt several times. But how much less likely would that have been if Mary had been directed, corrected, and encouraged by a loving father instead of simply laughed at? The same is true with Kitty, but with different results. Kitty seems to be the younger daughter potentially most sharing in the gifts of her two oldest sisters, but with little parental direction, she takes her cues from her strong-willed younger sister, Lydia. Austen does allow that Kitty would go on to improve dramatically once she left her parent's home and lived in the households of her older sisters. But again, how much better and happier would she have been with an attentive and affectionate father? And Lydia...ah, Lydia. Everyone's favorite bad girl. Lydia is done in by her own temperament. She is not a horrible, vindictive person or calculating shrew. But she applies her intelligence to vapid pursuits and vanity, living the life of a wild child. Where is her father to offer some discipline? Why did Mr. Bennet not take it upon himself to curb her foolishness and demand better of her? Because he was too busy laughing at her and enjoying the spectacle of her buffoonish behavior. Bennet even admits that he failed in his duty to provide for his daughters. He assumed he would father a son to inherit his entailment, which instead passed to a distant cousin (the very Mr. Collins of the original thread I'm referencing). Bennet rues his lack of foresight and discipline in not making or saving any fortune for his daughters. Bennet is reduced to seeing his youngest daughter in a desperate scandal, watching as his brother-in-law (as he supposes) pays off a cad named Wickham to marry her after despoiling her. In his typical sarcastic manner, he berates his own financial laziness when he complains to Elizabeth that "I cannot help regretting that I did not [...] enable you to lay by an annual sum out of your income, to bribe worthless young men to marry your sisters." Mr. Bennet fully recognizes his own foolishness and failure of duty toward his daughters, though that realization apparently does not come until after all the destruction and humlilation has been set into motion. At some level, I have to imagine that he recognizes his failure to be a proper husband to his wife, though Austen doesn't seem to say much on that account. I love Mr. Bennet's character because I think it's true-to-life. Austen restricted her "omnipotent author" mode to her female characters, once remarking that she wasn't a man and couldn't speak for men (or something to that effect). But I see her keen insight into human behavior and motives in her male characters as well, none moreso that Mr. Bennet. He was a deeply flawed but also deeply likeable character. I feel like if I had actually known a real Mr. Bennet, I would have liked him and probaby considered him a friend. But I would not have modeled myself on him. Too much laughing at other people's stupidity and too little self-reflection to recognize his own.3 points -
Trump just won the election
mirkwood and 2 others reacted to NeuroTypical for a topic
In real news, here are the President's tax priorities he just laid out to the Rep legislators: 1- no tax on tips 2- no tax on SocSec 3- no tax on overtime pay 4- renewing the tax cuts 5- adjusting the SALT cap 6- eliminate all tax breaks for billionaire sports team owners 7- close the carried tax deduction loophole 8- tax cuts for made in America products3 points -
Sealing queries
mirkwood and 2 others reacted to NeuroTypical for a topic
Conversely, if people are unable to keep the commandment to love all and forgive all, they don't have to worry about whether their abuser is in the celestial kingdom or not, because they won't be there themselves. It's an incredibly sobering thought, especially for folks who have tasted some of the worst things humans have to offer one another.3 points -
Gospel Library App and Website
JohnsonJones and 2 others reacted to Carborendum for a topic
Is there any way to get the people in charge of the Church website and the GL app to fix the search function for scriptures as well as GC talks and other addresses and publications? What they lack: No Boolean operators. No "quotes" for a phrase. No near match cases. No special options like "include chapter headings". What they do wrong: Provide a whole bunch of false matches that don't even contain the search terms. Provide a whole bunch of matches that are not in the book specified. Provide perfectly poor pairings pertaining to the present point.3 points -
Borders, Trade and International Developments
NeuroTypical and 2 others reacted to Ironhold for a topic
Thanks to social media, I know a number of people who live in Canada. Several of them have told me that they're not keen on Trudeau, and feel that his tenure has brought failure and shame on the country. They actually see this tariff fight as potentially being a good thing in the long run if it does in fact force Trudeau to resign.3 points -
I'll just open a potential can of worms... Can ICE enter temples?
JohnsonJones and 2 others reacted to NeuroTypical for a topic
This happened in the 1930's? Very much a different time, different culture, different people with different values on life. I've heard the notion from multiple WWII red blooded American vets: One thing they liked about hitler was he "emptied out the prisons and insane asylums". Our grandparents and great grandparents thought such things. We have to be careful drawing analogies between interrogators then and now. Without a deep understanding of American history and culture and how it has morphed and changed over time, we're basically just talking out of our butts.3 points -
Apparently I'm a sucker. There's one born every minute they say.
askandanswer and 2 others reacted to zil2 for a topic
Folks, however suspicious you are of strangers who call, text, or email you, it's not enough. For the record: The sheriff, your insurance company, the bank, the IRS, and everyone else is a stranger! Even if you've known the person for years and think you recognize their voice - the minute money, accounts, addresses, etc. get involved - they're a stranger!3 points -
I'll just open a potential can of worms... Can ICE enter temples?
Still_Small_Voice and 2 others reacted to mirkwood for a topic
@NeuroTypical Traffic is a poor example, it is an infraction for almost EVERY traffic violation. Big difference to illegally entering and staying in the US.3 points -
https://downloads.newyorker.com/projects/2024/cartoons-and-puzzles-2024/brume-the-supper-soiree.pdf3 points
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Trump just won the election
mirkwood and 2 others reacted to The Folk Prophet for a topic
My point is that it won't be forgotten and over by 2027. And it leaves out the terrible social contagion and the effects of that.3 points -
Curtis' Question
classylady and 2 others reacted to Carborendum for a topic
In that vein... I tend to believe that those who are baptized for the dead will find salvation based on the same criteria as those who are baptized in this life. It isn't about being sinless -- none of us are. It is about being humble enough to constantly be open to learning the truth. It is about being humble enough to continue repenting based on the new truths we learn. It is about humbling ourselves enough to allow the Atonement to heal us from sin. ... and being determined enough to continue these things through all eternity.3 points -
Nor do you need to prove it, unless you want to impose that belief on someone else. Want to call your boyfriend "she" and pretend he's having a period? I mean, you do you. Want to pass legislation to normalize that sort of belief? Yeah, no. That's a no-go. You want to pass such a law, you must convince most of the rest of us that you're not just spouting worthless (or much worse than worthless) nonsense. On a strictly societal level, no one cares about either your tender feelings or your preferred perversions. Believe what you will. But don't impose your stupidities on the rest of us. That's the social contract that we maniacal, starry-eyed theists live under, and you get to join us there.3 points
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Trump just won the election
Vort and 2 others reacted to Manners Matter for a topic
Not according to G-d Himself. D&C 104:17 For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare3 points -
Going western and hat making....
Vort and 2 others reacted to The Folk Prophet for a topic
Finally got the chance to deliver my dad's hat to him:3 points -
The flood and Enoch's seed
mordorbund and 2 others reacted to Vort for a topic
I think zil's explanation is the obvious one. Given the scripture-inspired view that only Noah and his family survived the flood, and every other person on earth was killed off, it appears to be the only explanation. But the original verse clearly says "found among". That would literally be like saying, "A remnant of my posterity shall always be found among my descendants." It's trivially true, and a weird, seemingly useless thing to say. I can think of two reasonable possibilities, which are not mutually exclusive (that is, both could be true simultaneously). The "remnant" does not refer to genetic lineage, but to some other trait, such as spiritual perceptiveness or willingness to covenant with God. Despite contrary interpretations of holy writ, Noah's family were not the only human beings to survive Noah's flood—which clearly implies that Noah's flood was not a worldwide phenomenon. I suspect that most Latter-day Saints who do not accept zil's explanation will tend toward the first view. Those who do not see Noah's flood as "universal", i.e. global, will probably mostly default to the second view, or some combination of the two. The scriptures do not say that Noah and his family were the only survivors on the entire planet of a global flood; that is a specific scriptural interpretation. So the second explanation is a possibility without denying any scriptural doctrine, though it certainly runs against many generations of traditional interpretation.3 points -
LDS beliefs on Judaism
Just_A_Guy and 2 others reacted to CV75 for a topic
1. Whatever temple activity is done, and how, must be in concert with the First Presidency and under the auspices of the restored keys. Conversion is required for accomplishing anything with faith in Christ, and this is the aim of all the prophecies. 2. The Jews are treated as prophesied, in some ways well and other ways badly. 3. I would suggest reading books that address these very questions and several other issues from a Jewish person’s perspective, for example, “Uncomfortable Conversations with a Jew,” by Emmanuel Acho and Noa Tishby. The bibliography may be more helpful than the book itself because it provides scholarly research into these topics, but it is a good primer on these subjects.3 points -
Let's be fair, Carb. He said the questions are ruining his life. Obviously Presumably, in searching for answers to his questions, he has fallen into the anti-Semitism rabbit hole. Unjust, dude, unjust. Do you like it when someone tells you what you're thinking? Or that you're a liar? We have no just grounds for making such claims against @Gecko45. Give the guy a chance. Yes (or has fallen for other people's cherry picking). You cannot know this. Yes. To all of us. PS: No wonder we have so many one-hit wonders on these forums.3 points
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California Fires
mirkwood and 2 others reacted to NeuroTypical for a topic
3 points -
It’s good for both sides. Those who disagree with the church policies can find other jobs where they’ll be more free to express themselves. The church can tighten the ship and employ who they want to employ. Both sides win.3 points
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Brandon Sanderson goes full woke and betrays gospel values?
mirkwood and 2 others reacted to NeuroTypical for a topic
Boundary maintenance. A religion gets to draw a clear boundary around what it believes and what it doesn't. Folks can believe whatever they want, but if they want to be on the inside part of the boundary, their beliefs should align. To understand how bizarre it would be to have it any other way, I still like the analogy of the chess club:3 points -
Brandon Sanderson goes full woke and betrays gospel values?
The Folk Prophet and 2 others reacted to Vort for a topic
I hope that the adjective "minor" is an understatement.3 points -
Brandon Sanderson goes full woke and betrays gospel values?
Vort and 2 others reacted to NeuroTypical for a topic
Cool, I got it now, thanks. I guess it depends on what you mean by "promotes". There's no such thing as good fiction without sin or bad things happening. Having main characters struggle with defects and fallen nature and whatnot, is one of the secret ingredients in the sauce. So when does it reach the level of "promoting"? Two examples: Orson Scott Card once wrote a work of fiction involving the Saints at some point in the future. He touched on the Lamanites having risen again as a powerful people, interpreted as various Native American tribes banding together and becoming militant and expanding their borders and carving their own nation out of parts of the US. Lake Bonneville had also returned, and the Salt Lake valley was now a lake, and you could still see the angel Moroni on the temple poking up above the water. I wouldn't say he was promoting NA rebellion or the destruction of the SLC temple. Because although those things are happening, his story at it's core is that the truth claims of the church are true and prophecies were being fulfilled, just in ways people didn't expect. I have no problem with OSC here. The Hazbin Hotel series tells the story of the daughter of Lucifer, and her attempts to redeem the souls in hell. But she is thwarted at every turn by the angels of heaven, who like things the way they are now where they use hell as a hunting ground where they can sate their thirst for violence. I would say this show promotes a bizzarro mirror-image picture of Christianity where good is evil and evil is good. If the show's creators claimed to be faithful believing Christians who take the Bible literally, I'd think they were hypocritical sell-outs. I know nothing about Sanderson or his books. If people are mad because he's got gay characters doing gay things, I'd have to read the book before I could say whether he's promoting activity or not. Question for all of you: If, say, the main character is gay, and it's just a description of part of him like his hair color, would you call foul and say he's promoting LGBT stuff? Another way to ask the question: Do you call foul at the prospect of a gay person simply existing in fiction? Would you demand the character be tormented, or an antagonist, or the book have a central theme of LGBT stuff is wrong before you could accept this character without calling foul?3 points