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Just_A_Guy last won the day on January 19

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About Just_A_Guy

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  1. Just_A_Guy

    Does Character Matter?

    I don't consider scripture a "game", but okay. 15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his agrace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the aheathen; immediately I conferred not with bflesh and blood: Interesting scripture. How does it apply here? Do you consider yourself called by God to reveal His Son? And how is that germane to our discussion, unless you consider Trump to be God's own Son whom you are commissioned to reveal to the rest of us heathens? 1 And the Lord said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to aJesse the bBeth-lehemite: for I have provided me a cking among his sons. Intriguing. Allow me some follow-up questions here. 1) Have you forgotten that Israel wasn't supposed to have a king at all? (1 Sam 8:7) 2) A king from the sons of Jesse. . Hmm. Would be that miserable oaf David, who waged war after war of conquest, spent Israel into bankruptcy, slept with another man's wife, killed the man, looked the other way when one of his sons raped his daughter, generally forfeited his exaltation, and then--when God confronted David with the natural consequences of his sins--asked that God satiate the demands of justice by killing thousands of David's countrymen in a three-year famine rather, than David himself being put to the inconvenience of being on the run from his enemies for three months? That David? 3) Is Trump supposed to become King of the United States? If so, why did you earlier accuse *me* of "failure to protect the Constitution" when you're the one having fantasies about Trump reigning over the United States as a latter-day David? 4) Was Trump divinely anointed by the hand of . . . anyone? Or is this just a banana republic, "might-makes-right" sort of argument? 1 Let every soul abe subject unto the higher bpowers. For there is no cpower dbut of God: the epowers that be are ordained of God. Additional questions: 1) Does this mean that I'm not supposed to criticize high government office-holders? Or just that I'm not supposed to actively argue for their removal through the constitutional process at the next election? 2) Whichever your answer to the question above--again, why do you accuse *me* of "failure to protect the Constitution, when apparently you're the one suggesting that scripture calls for a United States of America in which no one ever expresses disapproval of the President and the President stays in office forever? 3) Did your interpretation of Romans 13:1 apply during the Obama administration; or did this millennia-old scripture suddenly spring into effect on January 20, 2017? 4) Has it ever occurred to you that Paul was writing to people in an empire, not a democracy? 5) Is Trump our emperor? Do you wish that he were? 21 They say unto him, Cæsar’s. Then saith he unto them, aRender therefore unto bCæsar the things which are Cæsar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. In a similar vein to my questions re Romans 13: 1) Were primitive Christians under Nero and Caligula and Domitian failing to heed this counsel when they continued to practice their religion in violation of those emperors' decrees? 2) Do you mean to suggest that one thing that was rightfully Caesar's, was immunity from criticism by his subjects? 3) How do the rights of Caesar in an empire, translate into the prerogatives of a president in a democratic republic? 4) Once again: why do you accuse *me* of "failure to protect the Constitution, when you're the one having fantasies about an idealized United States of America in which no one ever expresses disapproval of the President? 5) Once again: Did your exegesis of Matthew 22:21 apply during the Obama administration; or did this ancient scripture also suddenly spring into effect on January 20, 2017 after two thousand years of nullity? 6) Once again, @anatess2: Is Trump our emperor? Do you wish that he were? 36 Jesus answered, My akingdom is not of this bworld: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. So, Jesus' refusal to head an armed insurrection in a far-flung province of the first-century Roman empire, imposes on American Latter-day Saints not only the prerogative, but the duty, to disregard D&C 98:10 and abandon honesty, wisdom, and goodness in the management of a democratic republic? 48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are aforgiven. Forgiveness to the penitent who confess and forsake their sins, is indeed a wondrous gift. I rather wish some of Trump's supporters would forsake their recidivist sins of telling flat-out lies about those folks who fail to make proper obeisance to their god-king. But that's one of those things that's beyond my control. C'est la vie . . . Considering that the American Civil War began just sixteen years later, @anatess2, I think you just made my argument for me. A "predestination-lite", might-makes-right argument doesn't get you around D&C 98:10; it just shows you trying desperately to avoid responsibility for your idol's part in the decay that is occurring and will continue to occur.
  2. Just_A_Guy

    Does Character Matter?

    D&C 98:10 D&C 3:8 1 Kings 19:18 2 Nephi 9:34
  3. Just_A_Guy

    Racial Error in Come Follow Me Manual

    The Church’s current materials don’t substantively distance it from the Book of Mormon text, except insofar as I suggested above that they pretend to take seriously some snowflake-type arguments so as to keep a few fragile people in the Church until they can get a testimony. If that works, then swell. The race-and-priesthood essay doesn’t strike me as having have any application to interpretations of 2 Ne 5; since the essay is limited to the present tense and the “original narrative” is very much bound up in past events. Even if it did pose some sort of conflict: the fact is that in two hundred years, Church members will still be reading 2 Nephi 5; whereas the Gospel Topics essays—for better or for worse—will be regarded as the same sort of quaint curiosities which we consider the Journal of Discourses to be. They are geared towards resolving the angst of twenty-first century millennials who, in spite of their own youthful narcissism, are not the apex of either history or intellectual/spiritual evolution; and who will hated by their own successors just as much as they hate “boomers” now.
  4. Just_A_Guy

    Racial Error in Come Follow Me Manual

    No, it doesn’t. At least, not if the race revisionists get their way. For the Book of Mormon’s condemnation of racism (2 Ne 26:33, Jacob 3:9) to have any teeth at all, it must have been condemning skin-tone based racism, which means there must have been a skin-tone based difference between the Nephites and the Lamanites. We can quibble as to why that was so, or over how quickly it happened. We can quibble over whether the result was truly a sign of divine disfavor or whether Nephi, as a sixth-century BC Jew, was simply conditioned to think that everything that happened was a manifestation of divine will and interpreted the change in that light. But as both the original and revised manual indicate—there was a visually-discernible difference. You can make the Nephites color-blind, or you can read the record they left as an explicitly anti-racist document. But textually, you cannot do both.
  5. Just_A_Guy

    Racial Error in Come Follow Me Manual

    I respect their feelings, but not enough to go passively along while they demand I accept a logically absurd form of hermeneutics or insist that the Church shred and re-print a run of millions upon millions of study manuals. There are some rational, sensitive, nuanced approaches we can take to the issue. The ones being advocated by the people cited in the Tribune are not among them. It’s a power play, a shriek of “notice me, and bend to my will!!” that doesn’t particularly impress me in a gospel context. The simple fact is that the original manual wasn’t wrong, as per church doctrine—incomplete and potentially subject to misuse, sure; but not wrong. But it supports a theological view (that in the isolated case of the Lamanites, there was a visually perceivable physiological change which for a limited time functioned as a sign of a deeper divine warning) that a certain fringe within the Church has been trying very hard to shame the Church into modifying.
  6. Just_A_Guy

    Does Character Matter?

    Even if we assumed that personal virtue is indeed wholly irrelevant in the field of—say—medicine (and further assumed that the medical field could long endure if cheating on one’s medical boards, swindling and lying to patients, covering up botched procedures, and dodging continuing education requirements, all became an ingrained part of the professional culture—would you hire a degenerate-yet-skillful oncologist if you knew that thanks to his antics, there would be no oncologists at all when your children got cancer?); the civil government of a democratic republic is a very different skill set. In a democratic republic the people designate representatives, trusting that the representatives would act as the people themselves would act if they had the necessary time and information to function in those roles themselves. Sustainable representative democracy requires a social culture of accountability and trust, which in turn requires a significant reserve social capital of honesty and self-denial. Yes, the system can lumber on for a while in spite of a few bad actors (or even many bad actors, when the underlying culture and morals and expectations are otherwise strong). But when bad actors become the norm and the civic culture degenerates to the point that we don’t even *aspire* to anything better—that’s when you become Venezuela under Perez, or Russia under Yeltsin, or Weimar Germany. I think the Lord knew that when He gave the warning @estradling75 cites. Certain actors here want America to stop being America and start being Venezuela and Russia and Germany and Zimbabwe and Mexico and the Philippines and Uganda and Brazil. If we care at all about the world our children and grandchildren will inherit, then we need to start asking why.
  7. Just_A_Guy

    Racial Error in Come Follow Me Manual

    The new variant acknowledges the possibility that “skin color” ≠ skin color. If we can placate our snowflake saints by making some nonessential concessions in order to get the people in the great and spacious building to laugh a little more softly, I guess suppose there isn’t much harm in that. And the fact that the Tribune got a local English professor to all-but-support book burnings, was most illuminative.
  8. Just_A_Guy

    Revelation- How does it REALLY work?

    My wife would agree with that.
  9. Just_A_Guy

    Revelation- How does it REALLY work?

    So, this happened to me just this morning, actually. I got called to be ward Sunday School president and have been considering who to recommend to fill out the presidency. I spent all week mulling it over with one particular person in mind, and then yesterday the second and third just fell into place and it seemed to all make sense. I texted the bishop about it this morning and was told that the one person I’d been thinking about all week—who I was more sure about than either of the other two, and who had been on the list of potential names that my bishop had given me—is now unavailable. (Stinkin’ elders’ quorum!) I don’t know what to make of it. I am still convinced it could have been a great presidency and that this particular brother would have been a big part of that. But . . . meh, I guess. God knows more than I do. Maybe I misinterpreted, or maybe there will be a future time when I need to know what could have been. Frankly, I’ve got too much else on my plate to really dwell on it. I wonder sometimes, if much of the angst of my youth was really just a byproduct of me not having enough to do.
  10. Just_A_Guy

    Revelation- How does it REALLY work?

    It seems you are a Jeff Foxworthy fan.
  11. Just_A_Guy

    Revelation- How does it REALLY work?

    And even then, I was maybe a little overly harsh talking about tears generally. It’s one thing to deliver bad news (or bear your testimony, for that matter) and have some damp eyes; but actual crying is a whole other matter. And whether men should or shouldn’t learn to get comfortable with that—the simple fact is that most of us haven’t; and we’ll go to extraordinary lengths to make it stop. (Though I confess that having daughters, and taking people’s kids away for a living, does tend to facilitate a certain amount of immunity after a while . . .)
  12. Just_A_Guy

    Revelation- How does it REALLY work?

    I was a little tongue-in-cheek about the “tactic” bit and hope I didn’t give undue offense. That being said—if an adult crying at the first hint of unpleasant news is a normal and healthy, hormonally-based outlet; then so is the tendency towards rage; and so is the tendency to simply avoid unpleasant/unproductive communications—the latter of which, of course, is fundamentally what a “ghosting” male is doing. I don’t think we should give a pass to someone who manifests a stereotypically “female” response, while making a point of rebuking someone who manifests a stereotypically “male” one. I should hasten to add that I don’t think ghosting a good thing to do. But to be blunt: in all but the most extreme circumstances, crying and raging and abruptly terminating contact are all inconsiderate, immature reactions signifying poor communication skills and a lack of self-control. We probably shouldn’t be terribly surprised to see that from people in their late teens and early twenties.
  13. Just_A_Guy

    Revelation- How does it REALLY work?

    Saying this as a) a male, and b) someone who was married off before “text messages” and “internet dating” were Things— What is a guy supposed to do when a girl is more interested in him than he is in her—particularly when flatly telling a girl that often leads to tears, which tactic males have no defense for?
  14. Just_A_Guy

    April 2020 "a hinge point in the history of the Church"

    I’m seeing Facebook adverts soliciting participation in a “multicultural choir” for the upcoming conference. I suspect that the conference will be something that’s a little novel culturally/procedurally, but nothing earthshaking institutionally or theologically. Remember, from the perspective of the Church leadership (as given by pretty much every “welcome to conference” sermon by every prophet since President Hinckley at least), every General Conference is “historic”. I love President Nelson and try to live according to the precepts he teaches, but I’m not setting high expectations for April 2020.
  15. Just_A_Guy

    Oregon Woman sues Church for reporting abuse

    Yeah, I wan to be careful not to make over-generalizations; but my understanding was that there was also a sort of pervasive attitude of “the church and its agents are a sovereign entity answerable only to the Vatican and not foreign governments and so we don’t have to buy play by your rules” that complicated things.