prisonchaplain

You could be right. If so, it's beyond ironic. BUT ... I'll take it. 😉

This is a doctrine we can agree on! My stumbling block comes when the enemy tries to convince me that the other 90% is mine to do with as I please. 😶

Well-behaved (yes, especially those who with abundant love for the difficult ones) can win converts to almost any faith tradition. It takes a compelling God to keep 'em though--especially when those less abundant in love make sideways comments. 😬

In my new career as a secondary school teacher I spent my first year teaching Civics to 12th graders. I tried to stay as neutral and objective as possible, empowering these emerging adults in the development of their own views. However, since I work in a private school I did not have to teach the jaundiced view that America was never great or that its Constitution is just some outdated document drafted by white men. We hit the themes of freedom of speech and religion pretty hard. I enjoyed it much and hope the students left wiser and more confident than they came in. This year I will have 7th graders for U.S. History. Perhaps the influence will be even greater.

Mea Culpa. I hadn't heard from/about him in awhile and assumed he'd retire. Now that I think about it...yeah...my wrong. Current Senator Romney...

I generally watch Fox News Sunday and the George Stephenopolis (sp?) show, so I have a general idea of what media is perceiving the news to be. Imagine my surprise when I stumble upon an interview of former Sen. Romney by Bret Baire (sp?). It was nicely and respectfully done. People may have varying views on Romney's policies and success, but he got the relationship of church and state right. Further, one aspect of LDS doctrine I find attractive and intriguing is the belief that the U.S. Constitution is inspired.

I don't believe this is true. It's a common joke--yeah, I'll just tell them I work law enforcement and they'll let me go! BUT, it's not actually a rule, to my knowledge.

Part of the issue here may be faith. We all believe in God--Heavenly Father--Creator of all that is. How we understand this God differs, however. Did God form preexisting intelligence into what we now know as humanity or did He make us out of nothing? Traditional Christianity believes the latter--and it's part of our understanding of who God is--Alone in His eternal existence--the one from whom all matter comes into being. There is a classic joke that we find hilarious. A scientist cries out and says, "God, if your there and you are real, prove yourself or leave us alone!" Suddenly, the scientist finds himself in an empty void. A voice speaks and says, "Hello. I'm God." The scientist says, "OK, so you exist. It really doesn't matter. We can now create life, so you can go away." God responds, "Really? That's great. Show this to me and I'll leave forever." The scientist then looks around frantically. Finally, he sees a pile of dirt and starts heading towards it. God speaks. "Where are you going?" The scientist says, "I'm heading over to that pile of dirt so that I can create human life from it." The last words the scientist ever hears are, "Get your own dirt."

You and I agree on this. However, I'm fairly certain that what you are calling predestination is what traditionalists consider foreknowledge. It's what I believe. Predestinationists contend that God, as Almighty Creator, has sovereign authority over His creation, and that He does indeed predestine souls to heaven or hell. They would argue that those who become believers were predestined--that for them grace was irresistible--the I in TULIP teaching.

To paraphrase @Traveler's inquiry, how can a God who created us out of nothing (a traditional Christian understanding) have no responsibility for the bad choices (sinful--evil) of His creation? If they started from nothing and God made them, then God would seem to bare total responsibility for the results, wouldn't He? There are traditional Christians who subscribe to Predestination--the belief that God does choose sinners and saints. I'm not one of those. Like many traditionalists, I perceive the Bible to declare God's foreknowledge, while at the same time permitting us the capacity to choose our way, for good or ill. What God created in us is the capacity for great good or evil. It is totally on us which direction we go and whether or not we repent if we start out wrong. The Apostle Paul says we have no excuse for our sin (Romans 1). He also decries his own weakness in sinning when he does not want to do so and avoiding good when he wants to do it (Romans 7). Still, he ends well, saying towards the end of his life that he had run a good race and fought a good fight. Never does he suggest that God bare any blame. I believe it is James that tells us not to blame God when we are tempted. God cannot be tempted, nor does He tempt. Rather, we are tempted by our own evil desires. Perhaps you can argue that God did not create the sinful acts that are in our hearts. He did instill in us the capacity, though. There's no blame because that good/evil capacity is what makes us free.

Those that wish to see @Traveler's arguments should refer to his OP--they are classic, and the issue has remained contentious for centuries. Those of us who believe that God created us out of nothing also believe that we were created capable of sin--not necessarily predetermined to do so. God knew we would, but he created us with choice. Once Adam & Eve sinned, the gravity in our decision-making did lean toward sin. Still, it was/is choice. Thus, Jesus said wide is the way that leads to destruction, narrow the way that leads to eternal life (paraphrase). Paul also told us (Romans 1) that we are without excuse--that we know right from wrong--that we could see God if we were willing to. And, of course, the Old Testament, New Testament, and Book of Mormon all contain promises that if God is sought He will be found. And so, how can I say God is good if he allows us to sin against ourselves, each other, and Him? One argument is that slavery is worse--having no choice. Another, that the safer we are made (whether by God or government) the less free we are. A third, that the Bible says God is good--especially as reflected in His original creation. The fourth, we have our testimonies--I KNOW that God is good because of the goodness He's extended to me. I readily confess that non of my reasons are fail proof. Thus, the discussion continues.

IMHO Heavenly Father's foreknowledge of our choices to sin does not make HIm culpable.

Mental Health Awareness and Overdose Awareness--two causes that came onto my radar with the death of a great-niece. At 20 Fetinol took her life. She believed there is a God, and in some ways showed openness--though she never agreed with "religion." What we can agree on is that she now sees much more than she did. She now knows God the Father is real and that Jesus is the way to reconcile with Him. This story might cause some here to renew their dedication to Baptisms for the Dead. For me, it is a reminder that life is short and our love must be intentional and out loud.

We could both be right. After all, God's people have and are facing horrific persecution. Brothers/sisters in N. Korea can go to prison for merely having handwritten Bible verses in the house. Ukraine is one of the most Christian countries in the region. Even in our beloved land believers are learning that this is not our home. So, there certainly will be troubles for God's people, whether the Rapture is biblical or not.

Perhaps it's because I am in the uber-liberal, "anti-Bible-belt" Pacific NW, but it's not conservative parents who are raising kids to stick it to the system, or to act out because public schools are ungodly. More often than not the worst-behaved kids come from homes where the parents don't parent. Sometimes poor associates creates peer pressure. Then again, the Seattle City Council has no Republicans. The two parties here are Democrats and Socialist Alternative. The latter call the former corporate sell-outs. So, I don't argue with the OP--I just can't relate.