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Traveler last won the day on February 19

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About Traveler

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    Senior Member
  • Birthday 08/22/1946

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    Sandy Utah
  • Interests
    Science, Cycling, Skiing, (outdoors in general), Liberty and Gospel Doctrine.
  • Religion
    Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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  1. Traveler

    Isaiah 5:20

    If we listen to the prophets and the spirit we will realize that in the Last-days there will be an assault on the eternal principles that directly effect social interactions. The strength of a nation lies in the strength of its social principles and foremost to a stable and enduring society is the family. It is my personal view that the stability and endurance of our freedoms and liberties are currently at great risk. For example the masculinity of males and the caring nurturing side of females (especially towards children) are being redefined as evil - specifically xenophobic, bigotry and definitely homophobic. I find it interesting that currently it is thought that the way to stop bullying is to bully the bully. Our super heroes are worshiped in entertainment because they are violent against those that are evil - evil being defined as someone that is violent???? This is the outcome from the destabilizing notions that we ought to love our neighbor (those that agree with us) and that we ought to hate and are vengeful towards our enemies. I believe that it is this kind of thinking that is the engine of "Secret Combinations". That we love (love meaning to support and to accept whatever it is that a person we love intends to do) and that we condemn and hate whatever it is a person that disagrees with us (our enemy) intends to do. In the D&C section we are warned about evil that will lie to make it look like those that are righteous (righteous meaning to uphold the covenants of G-d) are lying and corrupt. In short it is good to lie or make false statements before a court of law (FISA court) to bring legal accusations against your political enemies. I agree with @scottyg and @Still_Small_Voice but I believe that what they are referencing is just a very teeny weeny tip of a colossal iceberg. The Traveler
  2. Traveler

    What is charity?

    I believe that love without sacrifice is counterfeit love - in other words is flawed and incapable of enduring. If we think about it - even the works of the Father were all part of divine sacrifice for the benefit of others. There is no expectation for reward. The Traveler
  3. I wanted to make one reference to counterfeiting. I did some consulting work for the Federal Reserve Bank and specifically asked about dealing with counterfeit money. This is one reference of how to avoid being deceived by counterfeits. What I was told was not to adhere to any specific requirement to discern the genuine from the counterfeit. Why? Because those bent on creating counterfeits can easily meet any expected specific requirement. An example of this kind of thinking was the counterfeits of historical documents by Mark Hoffmann. One of the main problems I personally have with near-death-experiences is that they cannot be independently verified. I say this even though I myself have had a near-death-experience. It is scripture that G-d will establish his truths in the mouths of two or more witnesses. But a near-death-experience by its very nature can only be given by the mouth of that one individual that experienced the event. This is not to say that all n-d-e are all false. Only that no n-d-e can stand of itself and therefore is not a means to discern, clarify or define any truth but rather a means to validate an already known and existing truth. The Traveler
  4. I took a quick look at your reference. This seems to be a very limited view of history. I was first introduced to Traditional non-Trinitarian Christians from a Christian refugee from Iran. For the most part non-Trinitarian Christians have been called Nestorian Christians. What is interesting to me is that my friend from Iran claimed that his brand of Christianity dates back to the first century of the Christian era. He also claimed ties to what is known in history as Prester John and the kings that brought gifts to the Christ child - this is quite interesting because both he and my Muslim contacts have a very different concept of Prester John than what is published in the west (dominated mostly by Catholic influences). As near as I can determine Christianity (at least western traditional Trinitarian Christianity) has been transfixed on the Trinity doctrine. According to my research western Christianity defined Christian religion as a belief in the Trinity. Any belief that excluded Trinity Doctrine was considered high heresy - which was a capitol crime punishable by death. But this was not the only crime of heresy punishable by death. In general any Christian that did not hold to the general state religion could have their property confiscated and themselves executed (usually burned at the stake). As near as I have found the "Toleration Act of 1649" was the first time any western Trinitarian Christian society outlawed the confiscation or property or sentence of death for the sin of heresy. Granted there were time of toleration based on the whim of leaders - but my point is that theft and murder for heresy was not outlawed until 1649. I could outline the historical background (which is quite interesting) but that is a tangent to the initial question. What is interesting is that there was a caveat to the Toleration Ace of 1649 and that caveat exception was that it was still considered lawful to plunder and kill humans that were not Trinitarian. There are even examples of complete genocide - without any objection from any wester Trinitarian Christian society - of peoples that did not accept the Trinitary Doctrine. One example is the indigenous Lucayan peoples. As near as I can determine it was not until 1829 before there was a law to prevent plunder and slaughter of non-Trinitarian religious believers. This was despite the fact that Freedom of Religion was believed to be a founding principle of the USA. This law in 1829 (as near as I can determine) prevented the killing of native Americans without due process. It would seem that what was once sanctioned and blessed is now heresy and a doctrine generally not acceptable. The Traveler
  5. Traveler

    Non-LDS: Why do you pray?

    I believe that Paul was a theologian and Pharisee. I am also of the mind that without Pharisees - you would not have the Bible or access to Biblical most Biblical scripture. As a side note - it is my personal belief that we ought to be willing to pray for anything that we would do or be involved in doing - for both concerning this life and the life to come. However, I also believe we must understand that in the end all things concerning this life or the life to come to which we can choose - is our choice to make. That we are free - that G-d will not make any choice for us that we can make for ourselves. I find it most helpful for my self that as I arise in the morning I present in prayer to my Father in Heaven what my plan is for the day. Then at the end of the day I present (report) to my Father in Heaven how things turned our and what I learned and for what I was thankful - and in addition things that were not completed, have need of assistance or what I did not understand. Sometimes, when faced with a particular challenge - I will present my plan for facing the challenge - and report later how things turned out. (it is not always a daily thing - sometimes my prayers are defined by surprises. The Traveler
  6. I believe we can be and that many are; led astray by near death experiences - and that it is possible for evil dark forces to counterfeit any good. In other words that there is opposition or an opposite to the light and glory of G-d. The problem I personally have with reincarnation is that it counterfeits the notion that it is through the Atonement of Christ, which is the plan of G-d, that we are saved. I personally believe that G-d's plan is that we experience a fall (death, which is the fruit of evil) and a resurrection (eternal life, which is the fruit of good). But that reincarnation is a doctrine of distraction that tempts us to follow a counterfeit path away for a resurrection of eternal everlasting life - which is the singular purpose of the soul. The Traveler
  7. Traveler

    What is charity?

    I believe that such things we learn line upon line upon line and precept upon precept upon precept. I also believe that we are given spiritual gifts of truth (Mornoni 10) so it is not so much that we know so much about a thing as it is that such truth are sprinkled among the Saints that we can increase in knowledge by the nuggets of truths through spiritual connections to others. But it is not so much to think, know or understand the doctrine of such a thing but rather that we become the example of all aspects or our understanding. However, I believe we cross a spiritual threshold when our understanding turns from what we can gain to what we can sacrifice and "give" to others. That like Enos we are no longer concerned or centered in OUR Salvation, OUR Blessings, OUR Understandings, OUR Eternal Glory, OUR Celestial Accomplishments, OUR Repentance, OUR Will, OUR Desires or OUR anything. And intern we submit all such by and through Agency and then like Christ we suffer and sacrifice (which includes forgiveness and releasing any claim or justice for all transgression against us) and exercise mercy for the good and benefit of others. And if we meditate on such things - Charity is the opposite of all that Satan and his followers desire, seek and tempt us (including Christ) with. The Traveler
  8. Traveler

    Rush Limbaugh

    There should be two way to spell "fast". The Traveler
  9. Traveler

    Views on Stimulus

    I am not an economists. I do know how to do math and hold to the KISS concept of money - KISS stands for Keep It Simple Stupid. The stupid term is not pointed at anyone but rather s rhetorical. I think of money as a means of exchange. The money itself is worthless but is given power by what backs up or support the money. Money itself is economy and therefore responds to supply and demand. Inflation is the result of money being available - there more money there is in circulation - the less it is worth. But this can all get rather tricky because as wealth increases the more money become valuable. So the simple answer, in my mind, is that when a government generates more money without increasing wealth - the less value that money can draw in exchanges. I have also learned a lesson about giving someone in need some money. I am convinced this will never solve any problem and in the long run will make those receiving the money dependent. If we want to help someone - we ought to be free with goods and services that are needed. First because money is not the same as goods and services and Second - Goods and services are will be seen as a sacrifice that ought to be appreciated - whereas money becomes an entitlement that is seldom appreciated. A good example of this is a kid in college. If they request help and instead of sending money offer goods and services - the kids seem to become much more invested in getting their own money. Whenever my kids have stated that they want a job that pays "good" money. I tend to sit down with them and explain that any money they make on their own is "good" money. Bad money is the money you obtain with nothing offered in return. Thus stimulus is "bad" money. The Traveler
  10. Traveler

    Executive Order 13817 and logistics

    I am not sure that the importance of this Executive Order is very well understood or appreciated. So here is a little more information about what the Executive Order was put in place to do: The point I am attempting to highlight in showing light on this executive order is that if indeed anyone believes the climate change political model and truly believe we must do whatever we can to change our reliance on fossil fuels and switch to "renewable" resources they would realize that in the last 50 years no administration or president has done more to make such a cause viable that did the previous administration. No nation can rely on renewable resources without enough control of these critical elements to meet the needs and demands of their society. The Traveler
  11. Traveler

    Rush Limbaugh

    Just those still involved in the John Burch Society - directly or indirectly. The Traveler
  12. @Jonahasked me to start a thread on this topic concerning Christianity and the Trinity Doctrine established at Nicene counsel and how that creed was used by Christian institutions impacting their society up until roughly the 16th Century. Here is the question from the "Was Jesus Married" thread in the LDS Gospel Discussion section: My main question is not so much concerning the specific doctrine but rather how many Traditional Christians approve the history of its impact on Christian institutions and how those institutions treated any society that rejected the Trinity Creed. Please be prepared to answer my questions of how this creed was used historically and how Christians today view the historical consequences. The Traveler
  13. Traveler

    The Gospel

    I find your answer rather odd even to extremes. My question to you concerned your personal belief. I did not ask you to clarify what you think I believe or how I might understand scripture (that I am not sure that you hold to any singular importance or of divine origins) which concerning my personal understanding is obviously not accurate. Was my question that confusing? The Traveler
  14. Traveler

    Rush Limbaugh

    A little side note. About 20 years ago a very strange and unfortunate event took place within my personal limited field of vision in the world. An acquaintance of mine owned a small business here in Utah (Utah county). Small can be relative - my acquaintance was quite wealthy and had 200 or so employees. I had need of his services and went to his place of business to discuss a contract. When I arrived at his place of business there were a group of protesters carrying signs and picketing his business claiming the business was unfair. The picketers were a rather rowdy bunch that as I drove in to park shouted obscenities and threats at me for coming for business. As I was making arrangements for business I asked my friend what was going on. He told me that it all started a couple of months previously when he received a threating letter not to advertise with Rush Limbaugh. He did not think much of it because he did not advertise with Rush. Within a week he was contacted by phone and threatened again and told there would be repercussions if he did not stop advertising with Rush. He told the caller that he did not advertise with Rush - which seemed to only anger the caller. Then he told me that he was quite sure that the picketers had targeted him by mistake. After I concluded my business, I thought I would talk to some of the picketers before I left. As I approached they shouted at me for dong business. I asked specifically why they were protesting - had they ever worked for or done business here. My curiosity seemed to calm them down. They said that they did not even know what the business was (which was rather strange because there were large signs identifying the business). I asked where they were from - answer - mostly California but all were from out of state. I asked why they were there protesting they said they were paid. Of course I wanted to know by who and how much. They were paid over double the minimum wage in Utah plus their hotel and meals were paid for but they did not know who was paying them. From this experience I came to the conclusion that there is a very well financed cancel culture that makes efforts to silence conservative political speech. I have heard that liberals are also threatened but I am not sure it is even close to the same. Why - In my neighborhood there are several signs in support of Black Lives Matter and during the election there were lots of yard signs for "liberal support" but no yard signs for anything Republican party. I know some very active Republicans and have asked why they do not put up signs. There response is that they do but that the sign are quickly taken down during the night. I realize this is not much in the way of research - mostly impression on my part. Though I do not consider myself as associated with any political party - my impression is that efforts to define political speech as hateful comes mostly from the left - but then even this forum will not tolerate any political speech - so my general impression is that very few really consider political speech to be in the category of free speech. I guess I am saying something is going very wrong and I am not sure I know how to deal with it. The Traveler
  15. Traveler

    David Snell article: Why, David?

    Thank you for coming to post. I personally do not know you but I would not mind getting to know you. I have written a few books and articles myself - but they are all technical manuals and papers. Currently I am a retired engineer that worked in the field of automation, robotics and artificial intelligence. It is my personal opinion that when communicating with others we should understand our own biases and prejudices first - and then try to understand the bias and prejudice of those with whom we wish to communicate. So if you do not want to talk about Brother Brigham's flaws - don't say he was flawed - speak clearly and to the best of your ability and understanding - why you believe Brigham was or was not flawed. If there are plenty of good thing - then focus on what and why you think the good things should be understood - especially for his place and time and how that can relate to our place and time. I agree with @Vort - if you do not know your opinion - then and only then should you pretend that you do not have an opinion. If you cannot state your purpose and make logical arguments for it - why would you continue to hold that opinion? I, myself, believe Brigham rose above his place and time and deserves to be understood as one of the great leaders of his time and place along with other great men of history that accomplished unusually great things; despite the challenges he faced not just within himself but even more so from the world. The Traveler