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Traveler last won the day on July 3

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About Traveler

  • Birthday 08/22/1946

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  • Location
    Sandy Utah
  • Interests
    Science, Cycling, Skiing, (outdoors in general), Liberty and Gospel Doctrine.
  • Religion
    Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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  1. When I started this thread, I intended the responses to be broad based. I am very interested in other view points and the logic behind opinions. And so I will introduce perhaps the greatest conundrum of life as we know it. That conundrum is the origins of such life. The religious notion of the origins of life is that not only is the deck stacked by very advanced intelligence but that there is something missing that is provided by such advanced intelligence that we have no empirical evidence of. The basic scientific concept is that in the physical elements of life ever exist together - that life will always result. The problem with the scientific notion is that the 3 primal instincts is somewhat of a ghost within the machine. It would seem that all other appearances of life can be reversed engineered except for the primal instincts. It almost seems that there is a back door into life as we think we know it - via way of artificial intelligence. One obvious difference is that artificial intelligence does not have need for the primal instincts. The life cycle does not play the same and therefore the primal instincts do not apply. From our LDS theology we understand that life as we know it is not real. Or perhaps I should say not eternal life. The primal instincts are only suited for mortal life and mortal life competition and life cycles. It is my opinion that most religions are not suited well for differentiating mortal life (as we know it) and eternal life (as we can only speculate it). Other than our LDS theology the only other religious notions that see that even attempt to deal with this is Buddhism and Hinduism. Because of the logical problems with traditional Christianity (which has similar foundations with Islam and Judaism) with such things - It seems to me that this is the primary engine that has caused the great divide between science and religion. The Traveler
  2. Thanks for your response. From my military experience I think I understand a little better. Perhaps my most important lesson from the military was that often the individual in charge can make the wrong decision (according to guide lines and intelligence). But the lesson is that when command makes a wrong (improper) decision it is always best to carry out the orders as given in the midst of a crisis. Any attempt to discuss or debate the issue will most likely turn out to be worse than the faulty commands. However, I am also aware (from military experience) that there are rules of engagement and training. I understand such things so that those involved can act in unison with minimal communications. From my military experience the rules of engagement is most often made by someone removed from the theater of action - something I often thought was not the best way to conduct operations when many lives are at stake. Training - I believe to be more critical. Acting outside of training I personally believe to be a big mistake. Thus my questions - which would best be answered by what is the training - especially for those in command. If your guide lines in doing your job is to minimize information so not to give advantage to opposition in a crisis - I understand and support that. The Traveler
  3. What is the determining factor? Is it ever one specific thing or are there many factors? Also who makes the decision - several at the front lines according to training or is it the responsibility of a specific level supervisor? Thanks in advance - I very much appreciate your experience, expertise and openness. The Traveler
  4. The problem is more than just red states verses blue states. It also tends to be cosmopolitan verses rural. Even in a very red state like Utah the high population area of downtown Salt Lake City tips towards the blue Democrats. Manufacturing and agriculture tends to be more red where as tech and medical tend towards blue. And there are always exceptions. I tend to think that the USA will follow more along the lines of Israel and Ireland with pockets of opposition where there are areas where one just does not mix with the other. Perhaps fashion and style choices will determine with what side one has chosen. The prophetic division uses the symbols of Zion and Babylon. Most of us have a good idea what Babylon looks and acts like - but Zion??? We think of Babylon as the rich and prosperous and Zion as the industrious hard workers. I can see why the Zion population would not want to be involved with Babylon but I cannot envision why Babylon would be interested in Zion? All I have to go on comes from the Book of Mormon where the Gadianton Robbers seem to believe that they have the "right" to rule over the workers (Standard Socialists model) telling them what is freedom and liberty is. The Traveler
  5. One principle that would seem obvious that there is a life cycle that must produce an intelligent species capable of moving from where life started to another inhabitable environment before the sun evolves - red giant or supernova. But a problem with an intelligent species - as we see with humans - is that as intelligence evolves that the species does not destroy itself. It appears to me that such cannot happen without religion. In short that if the human species abandons intelligent religious notions - it will illuminate its evolving species from existence. Which is a primary suggestion by many scientists as to why we have not found evidence of intelligent life. The Traveler
  6. The problem with cloning is the problem of replication error. Scientifically we know this exist in the natural reproduction of species which is considered part of evolution. The replication error that are a disadvantage to the primal instinctive advantage of an individual in the gene pool - nature will eliminate that mutation or that mutation will eventually eliminate that species. It would seem that any disadvantage to any of the primal instincts will eliminate the individualerl or species. The Trave
  7. The only way that non-heterosexuality can be even semi sustainable is to recruit from the heterosexual gene pool. The Traveler
  8. With the recent Supreme Court ruling overturning of Roe verses Wade there are strong disagreements on a clear definition of life – especially defining intelligent human life. There is no explanation in science for why life is so resilient, abundant and diverse on our little planet and yet there is absolutely no evidence that such life exists anywhere else in our vast universe. I am convinced that we will never find life as we know it anywhere else in the universe. There are several reasons why I have come to this conclusion. First because our universe is so vast that if there is life as we know it is anywhere else it will be too rare to discover. I am convinced that that life as we know it cannot naturally exist anywhere else and that the only reason life exists on earth is because a intelligence that we do not comprehend has uniquely manipulated the elements so. It is impossible for such life to evolve on its own in this universe that is so intrusive to life as we know it. I have studied and pondered and have concluded that there are three elements of life that I call primal instincts that must exist of such life to be sustainable and not become extinct – even on this earth – let alone anywhere else in this universe. The first primal instinct or element, I call the predator instinct. Life must seek out and destroy (kill) other life for nutrients needed to survive. This is a life and death struggle between other (often like kinds) of life that only the most fit will or can survive. To survive other life must die. The second primal instinct or element, I call the territorial protector and defender. To survive, life must have a strategy to hide from, repel or defeat other life that is either seeking them for their resources or competing with them for the same resources. In essence more than being a predator, life must have a strategy to protect itself from predators that will kill them. The third primal instinct or element is the drive to reproduce. Without these three primal instincts no individual or species is sustainable. Likewise, should these primal instincts become misused or misdirected the result will be that the individual genetic material will no longer be present in the gene pool and if sufficient individual genetic material is lost from the gene pool the species will become extinct. Scientifically we classify such individuals and species as “unfit”. Only the “fittest” genetic (and life instinct or intelligence) survive. It is my opinion that the human genetic material is so vast and diverse that individuals lost from the genetic pool is just not much of a concern at present. But if succeeding generations are convinced or misdirected from the primal instincts that we must realize that such recruiting efforts place our species on the endangered species list. As will all life as we know it – we are only a generation away from intinction. I have no problem or concern with anyone pursuing a LGBTQ+ lifestyle. But I am concerned (opposed) if such lifestyle is to become “Prideful” and in any way presented as a beneficial sustainable optional lifestyle for a species. The Traveler
  9. Victory for human rights and liberties! I have long believed that as a freedom loving society we need to quit demonizing responsible gun ownership by law abiding citizens. As a side note - in my youth; the parents I knew would never allow their children to handle fire arms until they completed (and passed) a gun safety course. In Utah growing up it was required to prove you had completed (and passed) a gun safety course to obtain a hunting license. The only respected and acceptable gun safety courses were taught by the NRA. I have always believed that the NRA should be responsible and teach a gun safety course in our public schools as part of required course work. The Traveler
  10. I would think that the symbolism in climb is synonymous with "ascend". See Psalm 24:3-4: I believe that verse 4 is in direct reference to covenants - which currently are part of our temple worship. The Traveler
  11. I agree, but only in part. I am of the opinion that there are efforts of insurrection - in essence to remake America. I would be surprised is there was no one intended insurrection involve in some way with events of Jan 6th - an more surprised is there was not at least one individual on both sides of the "conflict". The Traveler
  12. While serving a mission, I learned that it is our opportunity as disciples of Christ to testify of the truth. How those seeds fall upon the ground of other's hearts (ears) is between them and G-d. It is likely, because each person is a different individual, that the spirit will inspire you how to best testify of the truth. It is their agency to deal with it. The Traveler
  13. It is likely that someone has had some experience with the points for discussion even if they did not review the lesson. If I were the teacher my goal would be to inspire someone in the class to read some of the scriptures or lesson material that is being covered. Even if all the reading was done after class. 50 years ago SS teacher were taught to pre-assess their class and set goals accordingly. One should never be discouraged with those coming to SS class. Nor should a teacher discourage anyone from coming. If you are the teacher - be of good cheer - someone is being touched and inspired more than you realize. You are in the service of G-d - it is impossible to fail. The Traveler
  14. Have you read their initial organization intent? I do not know how they could accomplish anything without being organized????? I do not know what MTG is - so I Googled it. It says it is a card game - Magic: The Gathering. ????? Maxine Waters is a politician that told her followers to get in the faces of conservatives (or any non supporters of her causes) and scram until they leave any public place. It may be just me but this looks a lot like a direct contradiction to the first amendment and a catalyst for violence - which is contrary to their oath as a politician. I do not think it is violence to gather or encourage gathering that encourage investigations into legal proceedings. That is as long as violence is not the intent. For example: if, during the Jan 6th gathering, there were officers of the government (FBI agents) among the gathering encouraging individuals to break the law. I believe such is a messenger of violence and must be investigated in open (not secret) proceedings. I agree with Tray Gouty - that if any legal proceedings take place in the government that those accused have a right to counsel and representation at the proceedings and the right to cross examine any witness under oath or to challenge any charge against them and to call their own witnesses in any such public proceedings. That to deny such justice is a gateway to violence. Do you believe that the Jan 6 congressional hearing allow counsel to the accused and cross examining???? The Traveler
  15. The Sunday school presidency should have read the material - if they haven't - they should be asked to do so by the teacher. Also if there is more than one teacher the other teacher(s) should be reading the material. In addition the teacher can request the bishopric and other ward leaders (presidencies) read the material. If there is a problem this should definitely be something brought up in ward consul by the Sunday school President. If all else fails - I suggest that the teacher have class members (during class) read excerpts from the lesson that the teacher is prompted by the spirit during the class to have read. If I was the teacher I would make a special effort to involve class members that other wise to not participate - of course as lead by the spirit. The Traveler