Traveler

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Traveler last won the day on January 20

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About Traveler

  • Birthday 08/22/1946

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Sandy Utah
  • Interests
    Science, Cycling, Skiing, (outdoors in general), Liberty and Gospel Doctrine.
  • Religion
    Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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  1. I have a daughter that left the Church because she has concluded that women are 2nd class citizens within the society of Latter-day Saints. For a number of years this controversy caused divisions (sometimes angry exchanges) within our family and particularly between myself and my daughter. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that angry exchanges are harmful to both myself and my daughter so for a while I avoided such topics. Currently, I am able to discuss things without becoming angry or responding to her anger and things have gotten much better --- but there is another side to all this. Her 4 children (my grandchildren) have continually drifted and have become quite confused over morals. For a while the grandkids would attend church with us when we visited, or they visited us. It has been a long time since they have chosen not to go with us to church. It was decided by my daughter and her husband that kids should figure out their own moral directions and religious connections. This has been most difficult for the kids and as they are reaching adulthood in this confusing world they have not done well. Two of the children have become lost and developed addictions. The addictions have resulted in severe mental illness issues to the point that it is doubtful that they will ever be able to ever live on their own without some assistance. Sadly, daughter is coming to her senses and realizing that leaving the church and the moral mooring living standards bring – is the primary factor in her children succumbing to damaging temptations – just not enough yet to return to protections of living by covenant. It is important that each person develop their own faith in G-d but if a person determines to become an agent unto themselves – it is not just their lives that are affected. It is not uncommon for innocent children (or others) to suffer consequences sometimes for many generations. With such damage I marvel that the atonement of Christ is able to unravel whatever damage we can do to ourselves and others. The Traveler
  2. Thank you for your post. Some thoughts about the person Joshua. This is the same name by which Jesus was known. Jesus being the Greek translation of Joshua. Shortly after Joshua succeeded following Moses, he took the “children of Israel” down to the river Jordan and washed them before crossing the Jordan river over into Palestine. The nature of the Jordan river as it approaches the Dead Sea is what we call a meandering river – which means that as the river erodes the landscape its course can change slightly. It is interesting to note that when Jesus came to the river Jordan to be baptized (washed?) of John it was at the same place that Joshua washed Israel and crossed that river on dry ground. I appreciate your notion that the ancient epochs of faith are prophetic in nature to have relevance for what is to come (even in our day and time). The Hebrew word “Kippur” had no English equivalent so when Tyndale attempted to translate the first English Bible, he coined the word “Atonement”. Because he portended to make up a sacred word is one of the primary reasons he was burned at the stake for heresy. The word “Kippur” has two distinct parts to its meaning and purpose. The first is a redemption that is paid by G-d for sins. It is my understanding that this redemption does not supersede the responsibility of the individual for their crimes of sin except to pay for that which the individual is unable. The second part is purification to change or remove that which is dross so that whch remains is pure and without flaw. This insinuates to me that the Atonement of Christ is not completed in us until we (complete repentance and) are pure (perfect). In scripture this is often spoken of as complete or perfect – which can only be concluded through the completion of the first 4 principles of the Gospel of Christ. I believe there is symbolism in Joshua leading Israel into the “Promise Land” that has great meaning for the Latter-day Saints preparing (themselves and Zion) for the Messiah and His Millennial Reign. The Traveler
  3. It is still being made – just not here on earth. The Traveler
  4. Over a decade ago I had to register for Social Security. This was before such efforts could be completed online. I live in Utah that is somewhat white. Never-the-less, I was surprised that I seemed to be the only “white” person registering for Social Security. In addition, I seemed to be the only individual of retirement age as well as the only individual that spoke English. I did not think much about it at the time but since I have learned that if a person is disabled, they can receive Social Security funds even if they are not a senior citizen. In fact, even if they are not citizens. There are a few stipulations. If they were lawfully admitted, granted conditional entry, paroled into the US, refugee, granted asylum, a Cuban or Haitian entrant or deportation is being withheld. Are the democrats (liberals – progressives) deliberately attempting to bankrupt Social Security? Are the republicans doing anything to preserve Social Security? With the southern border as open as it is, and refugee or asylum granted without any validation – I do not believe Social Security is sustainable. The Traveler
  5. I relate to Enos and his struggle. Growing up in a righteous home well rooted in the gospel of Christ – I believed my parents, attended church, sought understanding and received conformations. As I grew towards adulthood and became aware of this universe of uncertainty and my own inability to reconcile seeming contradictions, I began to wonder what it was I seemed to be missing. Not so much doubts that what I believed was wrong – just that like the rich young man that came to Jesus – I wondered what it was that I was missing. I had spent time in the army during the Vietnam conflict and lost friends in that war. I had also served a mission but felt that I had been sent home at the end of my allotted time leaving critical things undone. There was a young lady that had waited faithfully for me to complete my mission, writing to me almost every week. I went out with her once on a date and could not connect taking her home early. I had a major conflict with a professor (that within a year was fired) and decided to drop out of college. I felt that the girls I met and attempted to date were seriously spiritually flawed. I had a companion from my mission that was a native American. I discussed with him my spiritual disconnect. He knew me from our experiences together and knew I was raised hunting for part of the food I ate and convinced me to take time off and go on a spiritual quest similar to Enos, Moses and Christ. I took a blanket, rope, knife, a coat, Book of Mormon and the clothes on my back and walked away from civilization into the desert of central Utah – living on the land as a 40 day fast. Just over 20 days into my experience I came across a fellow on a prison release program that had become lost and was in serious trouble. He had not eaten for a few days and has blisters, bleeding and was unable to walk without assistance and was more than twice my size. It took over two days to get him out and to safety and there was a time I did not think we would make it but were saved by a miracle. I thought that my spiritual efforts had been ruined. My personal Enos wilderness experience failed – or so I thought. After a few more weeks I left my wilderness without the spiritual manifestation I expected. I had a spiritual experience in my youth, somewhat similar to young Joseph Smith and believed that I could reconnect. But it did not happen as I expected. I came to realize that spiritual experience come through personalizing one’s covenants. The meaning and purpose of spiritual experiences is to galvanize one’s covenants. As we keep our covenants through faith and dedication the spirit strengthens that faith and opens greater spiritual possibilities. My time in the wilderness has become one of my greatest strengths leading me through life – reminding me of many things I was given during my quest and reminding me to remain faithful to covenants. It is my understanding that Enos’s life was not fixed through his wilderness experience but rather he came to a understanding of how his purpose in life is fixed through divine covenant that he had already made but not completed. The Traveler
  6. We need to realize that the context of this scripture is deeply rooted in the Hebrew culture and language even though the text is written in Reformed Egyptian. From the context of near Eastern culture, we learn that the preferred styles of government were patterned after their ancient understanding that the government of Heaven was properly called a “Kingdom”. That the kingdom of Heaven was ruled by a supreme Suzerain. From near Eastern kingdoms often had levels of citizenship. Only the “First Born” (Meaning the most noble or highest rank of citizens fell under the direct relationship with the Suzerain. As a side note here, these high citizens had a unique name by which they addressed the Suzerain that no one else was allowed to use. There are many references in scripture about the first-born citizens. One reference is referenced with the final miracle of Moses when obtaining the deliverance of the Israelites. Other classes of Citizens were under the jurisdiction of what was called the Servant Vassel. According to the law of the kingdom the Servant Vassel was said to have inherited all that the Suzerain had in dealing with their Jurisdiction within the Kingdom. As such they claimed to be one Suzerain or one with the Suzerain. Often, they would speak to their jurisdiction in the first person as the Suzerain. Under this law of a Kingdom, it was said that there was one Suzerain. The Hebrew word to designate “one” is ehad. This is the same Hebrew word that designates that a man and a woman become one flesh when married according to G-d’s law. The Hebrew word that designates a unique single individual is yahed. Whenever Hebrew scripture referenced the “oneness” of G-d the word ehad is always used. There is no reference – ever – that Hebrew scripture uses the term yahed in referencing one G-d. When the fall of man (Adam and Eve) took place all of the covenant spirit children of the Father (Suzerain of Heaven) became fallen or exiled citizens of Heaven and therefore were under the jurisdiction of a Servant Vassel that was the Messiah or Christ that was anciently known as Jehovah and the man Jesus of Nazareth. When the Apostles chosen by Jesus to oversee the kingdom of G-d (church) on earth there were lost to the Church there was a shift in the stylized government of the church. This shift patterned the church structure after the government of Rome. To justify this gross alteration a counsel met and created the doctrine of the “Trinity” that was forced on “Christians” under penalty of death and it has remained ever since. Perhaps the best witness in scripture of the proper concept of oneness is in the Gospel of John chapter 17 when Jesus prays in Gethsemane as part of his Atonement that those that believe on him (as the Servant Vassel to the Suzerain) would become one with the Father in the same manner that He is one with the Father. Obviously meaning that those that believe in Christ will no longer be exiled but full citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven as Servant Vassals of the Father. I would note that in John chapter 10 that when Jesus said he was one with the Father – the Jews clearly understood that Jesus was referring to himself as G-d and that is why they intended to put Jesus to death. Many Christians claim that they are one with G-d in one breath but then in the next breath claim there is only one (yahed) G-d and that the Trinity doctrine is valid. Obviously, they do not know what they are saying. The Traveler
  7. Since we are keen on speculation for this thread, I will offer some speculation based on research that I followed and speculated myself. Among the Dead Sea Scrolls was a copper scroll that was also called the temple scroll. We know that in the ancient world that records were kept on metal for special reasons. There were also various levels upon which records were kept. A special breed of sheep and goats were maintained for what was called the scriptorium scrolls. The Isaiah scroll found with the Dead Sea Scriptures is one example of the higher quality scriptorium scrolls. One of the non-LDS scholars associated with the Dead Sea Scriptures speculated that the most important copies of the scriptures were kept at the temple. Prior to 600 BC. the stone plates that contained the Ten Commandments was kept at the temple in the Holy of Holies and inside the Ark of the Covenant. It is my personal speculation that the Brass Plates were kept in the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies of the Temple according to the law and covenant. That the removal of the Brass Plates by Laban was a gross disobedience of that covenant. That one of the primary purposes of the temple of ancient times was to maintain and keep sacred artifacts. It is my speculation that the temple is intended to house the most sacred artifacts obtained through covenant with G-d. Specifically in the Holy of Holies. There these most sacred covenants artifacts are protected by divine covenant. That if circumstance was required that G-d would inform his covenantal garden to remove such artifacts by divine calling – as according to Nephi concerning the Brass Plates. So, my speculation is that certain artifacts (including the Golden Plates) are in possession of our Apostles. That there are safe places to keep such artifacts in the Holy of Holies or if necessary, a special prepared vaults carved into granite stone mountain sides (known or secret). I find it most interesting to me that the L-rd has found the means in our own day and time to have many of the most sacred artifacts (including buildings – temple and otherwise) back into the control and protection of his covenant Saints. Not only are these artifacts being returned they are being returned without the Saints demanding it so or by their forced efforts. I do believe this to be a divine witness that the only true and living G-d is providing witness to the world concerning his only true and living covenant (authority church). And also a witness to the Saints (with eyes to see and ears to hear) of the preparations for the returning of the Messiah. The Traveler
  8. I am by no means an artist, but my father was, and I was schooled in the arts. There is a lot of the artist in their art. In essence, all art at its core (meaning and purpose) is a self-portrait. The Traveler
  9. Thank you for responding. I believe this is a most serious matter and needs a lot of discussion. A few years ago, my wife and I spend some time in Saint Petersburg, Russia. We had a guide that took us to several off the tourist grid places where we encountered a cross section of Russian citizens. I was quite surprised to discover that Putin has more popularity and support in Russia than any President in the USA has had for decades among citizens here. I realize this was hardly scientific but the feed back that I had was that the citizens enjoyed more freedoms and economic benefits than any of them ever realized in their lifetime. Included in their freedoms was attending religious institutions of their choice and being able to walk (or jog – including young ladies) in public places (or ride public transportation) without fear of being molested or robed. In general, it was my impression that Russians attribute their improved status (a significant rise in their middle class) to policies instituted by Putin. I am not a fan of Putin – especially politically or of his methods and I have no desire to live in Russia. But the people there have it better than they ever have. According to my recent research – up until 2014 Russia either controlled Ukraine or relied on them (politically and economically) as a trusted ally. Ukraine was an important economic and political partner to Russia. At the time the President of Ukraine was a guy named Yanukovych that was most famous for corruption. Under pressure from Russia, Yanukovych backed off from increasing trade with the EU. As I stated earlier – and this can be verified by a Google search. A movement started to remove Yanukovych from power because of his corruption. The most violent element of the revolution was a Nazi movement (not my interpretation) that received monies from the USA and NATO. My research indicates that Senator John McCain was involved in the legislation to obtain the monies to finance the Nazis and the Ukraine conflict. Our involvement (USA) can easily be justified as means to curtail Russian influence and end a very corrupt regime. However, there is little indication that the rampant corruption of Ukraine was in any way hampered – but Ukraine as a nation made moves towards Western (EU and USA). Prior to the Russian invasion there are rumors that Zelenskyy’s administration did not deal kindly with opposition (including certain religious groups). It is my understanding that the mane means of Russian financing is through their petroleum industry and exports. It appears to me that the current policy in the USA that governs the USA petroleum industry gives strong advantage economically to Russia (despite all other so-called sanctions). Thus, it looks to me like the USA, either indirectly or directly is financing both side in the current Russia Ukraine conflict with increased petroleum costs. The Traveler
  10. Having spent some time trying to talk with some liberal friends – I have concluded that it is unlikely that a contest between Trump and Biden will in anyway calm the troubled waters brewing politically in this country. If anything, I believe it will boil over. I doubt that we will reach November without open violence and an impossible political divide. I do not think either party has the means or desire to deal with the opposition that is building. Though I believe the Democrats to be the more wicked of the two; I am also convinced that the Republicans are more the buffoons that are clueless and unprepared. I wonder if the stupidity of the Republicans is somewhat by the design of their leadership. At this point, I cannot say I trust any political process. My hope is in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I had hope of the religious community of America coming together but since that community still cannot (as a whole) accepts us as Christians – I am very concerned for how much longer G-d will protect this government. For now, I will support anyone or anything that can delay what seems to me to be inevitable. I believe the Democrats will not only win but will win by much more than the Republicans (and other conservatives) can possibly imagine. The Traveler
  11. Just a note. With all the divisions within the Community of Christ it has been a surprise to me that few of those leaving have joined with us. And then even the few – it seems to have been the next generation to find itself joining with us. Perhaps it is the past bitterness. The individual I met with seemed to have a defeated presents – I would think somewhat like Moroni experiencing the end of the Nephits. I did feel that he was a good person expressing a sincere sorrow. Typical to my problems with little compassion I did tell him he has a home with us. His grace precedes mine with his thank you. The Traveler
  12. It is not uncommon to give familiar names to places. I know of a few cities called Paris, London, Main, Portland and Bountiful just to name a few. I have given up attempting to determine the land of the Book of Mormon – thought I have thought to have figured it out a few times, only to realize problems with the narrative within the Book of Mormon. I have concluded that there are a number of places that Jesus most likely visited in the Americas – as well as several other places in this world. I believe that there is sufficient evidence to convince me of visitations to many places other than the Americas (including in India, Persia and Northern Japan). As a side note – does anyone know why Japan has a flag denoting the land of the rising sun? The Traveler
  13. The Church is already the single largest owner of property in Missouri. There are two temples in Missouri. One in St Louis and one in Kansas City. There are several temples (24 – mentioned in your link) that will be built in Independence. My personal theory is that none of this will be built by the Latter-day Saints but will be either returned or constructed by the Saints of Enoch when they return as prophesied. I speculate this will be at the same time that Melchizedek returns with his Saints to restore the temple to what is now Jerusalem. The Traveler
  14. It was never completed. The Traveler
  15. Just a little bit of history – as I have experienced. In my college years I, with a few return missionary friends, embarked or a Church history vacation one summer. Our encounter with our religious LDS neighbors was bitter and disappointing and left a very bad taste in my mouth. In my youth, I blamed everything on who we called the Reorganites. Over the years this bitter relationship has softened. One of the doctrines that has sustained some bitterness has been our stand on the priesthood being exclusively for men. The Community of Christ currently has women apostles. There was some bitterness over blacks and the priesthood. Not so much concerning the blacks and the priesthood but the Community of Christ suffered a great division over women and the priesthood. They have never been solvent economically since that division. The LDS Church has financed the Community of Christ to maintain our common interest in historical properties. It was never sustainable – especially for the Community of Christ. A few years ago, my wife and I (with some local friends) again made a trip through Church History. My personal encounter with the Community of Christ was like meeting with beloved long separated family members. I spent a day with one of their general authorities (president of the 70’s). I was privileged to go with him through their private vault of artifacts accumulated form the beginning and dating back to the time we were not separated. With their new focus on “The Community of Christ”, he tearfully confessed to me that they did not have the resources to maintain the artifacts of history. It was not just the finances but the human resources as well. We openly discussed the possibility of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints carrying this baton to the finish line when the Messiah comes. The bitterness between our religious institutions seems to be the one factor no longer a concern. I am grateful that our brethren in Christ have carried this burden so well and nobly for so long. I am grateful that the properties will now be restored to what they need and ought to be – a treasure for the Saints to enjoy during the millennial reign. The Traveler