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Traveler last won the day on August 18 2018

Traveler had the most liked content!

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About Traveler

  • Rank
    Senior Member
  • Birthday 08/22/1946

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  • Location
    Sandy Utah
  • Interests
    Science, Cycling, Skiing, (outdoors in general), Liberty and Gospel Doctrine.
  • Religion
    Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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  1. Traveler

    Fly Fishing

    My short answer is that fishing is an individual thing one can do all by themself and without any input from anyone else. Whitewater rafting is a team effort that requires the contribution of everyone involved. I have stated several times that the greatest challenge is to get everyone in the raft to work as a unit - it is not the river nor the challenge of the rapids - it is the process of working together - and from time to time when facing the most difficult challenges several rafts must work together to succeed. I understand the love some have for fishing - my brother included. But for me fishing is not relaxing or a relief but creates stress and tension for me. Perhaps it is because I am my own worst enemy - Though I do go camping by myself to be alone - as long as a week. And I must admit that I do enjoy a fish or two while by myself. But I would not waste my time with a line and hook. The Traveler
  2. Traveler

    Holy Ghost - What do we know about him?

    My dear Anatess2, I do so appreciate your inputs. I have thought much on this subject since the above post. I would address your references to Matthew 28:18 and Colossians 2:9. It appears to me that these references are applicable to the resurrected and glorified Christ. It is my understanding that scripture references to the "earthly" ministry of Jesus as a "condescension". - Meaning to lower himself or to give up something. I do not know how Jesus could condescend to save us without sacrificing something. The usual idea of the sacrifice of Christ was his dying for us. And so I would ask – Is a “Fully Divine” being; mortal even capable of death? Did not Jesus have to sacrifice some of the “Fully Divine” in order to be subject to death and suffer for sins. I submit that he also sacrificed his glory to come to earth as a man and take upon him our sins. Was not Jesus restored to his former glory in the resurrection? Why or how could that be if he was already “Fully Divine”. The Traveler
  3. Traveler

    Fly Fishing

    I do not understand the mentality of fishing even though a brother loves it - I once caught him fishing without a hook - what is the logic of fishing and not wanting to catch a fish? My brother said it is to enjoy nature - one does not need a pool and a hookless line to do that???? But the statement that tops them all from my very smart brother was the one about the excitement involved to "out smart" the fish. My response - "Really? You find outsmarting a fish to be a challenge and something to get excited about?" The Traveler
  4. Traveler

    The Plan of Salvation and dependence

    As an expert in industrial automation (artificial) intelligence - there are two classical ways that artificial intelligence (automation) operates in a complex industrial model. The first is what is termed as the overseeing centralized intelligent model. In this model the primary higher intelligence oversees the entire complex model and commands the lower (often broken down into simplistic) operations. The lower level simplistic operations only know their particular operation and are controlled by communicating with the centralized primary intelligent overseeing source. This model is the foundation of the assembly line operation and means that there was not much intelligence needed on the assembly line much beyond following specific simplistic instructions. I believe this is the primary model that many see in the religious model as the relationship between G-d and man. G-d being the overseeing centralized superior intelligence and man being simplistic inferior intelligence operating on simple command via communication with G-d. The second classical model is called the distributed intelligence model. In this model the communications with the centralized overseeing model is minimized. The concept is to distribute the decision making to that level of operation where the data is most available for making the decision or to the closests possible level to make the decision. This model still requires a centralized overseeing intelligent (decision making) process that maintains oversight of the entire operation. The main difference is that the most possible decisions possible are made at the lower levels. In the previous model all decisions are made at the centralized level. There are strong advantages and disadvantages for each model - I will leave the advantages and disadvantages to be determined by the readers. I personal came to prefer the distributed model because I saw that as more closely resembling the divine model expressed in my understanding of the Plan of Salvation. But there is a new model of artificial industrial intelligence. It is called "The Hive Mind". I have shared the Hive Mind intelligent model before but I will share again. In the Hive Mind there are unlimited intelligent nodes and each node is consider to be equal. The nodes exist on a network and all communicate with each other through the network. Via the network all nodes operate as one single entity. Questions derived and any node are broadcast on the network as are any suggested responses are also broadcasts on the network. As the reader may surmise - this is a lot like the internet. Every intelligence with access to a node becomes very intelligent through the network. In short - this model outperforms the two classic models in every way possible. I am sure that many may think they see possible problems with this model but the truth is the problem is not diminished intelligence but design problems of the network. I currently believe that G-d in the implementation of the Hive Mind. Some religionists resits this notion saying we will never be equal to G-d. But that is a gross misunderstanding of scripture and being "ONE" with G-d. If we are not equal we are not one! The plan of salvation is the essence of becoming one with G-d as Celestial nodes on the divine network. I believe it is Satan that is trying to establish the first model with him as the overseeing intelligence. And that he is smart enough to realize that the final model with outperform his model at ever possible consideration. He will never be able to compete - ever. So his effort is to destroy the network that connects independent intelligences and make them dependent on him. Anyway some thoughts. The Traveler
  5. Traveler

    Holy Ghost - What do we know about him?

    Obviously I must be very naive. Can you please help me out and give me an example from scripture (not from the philosophies of men) where the term Fully Divine is used to describe anything concerning G-d (including Jesus Christ) instead of just divine? The Traveler
  6. Traveler

    Famous Last Words

    Over several years I have gained the habit of saying, "I love you" to my wife whenever we are parting. Recently we were having an argument and my wife wanted to be by herself to think things over. As we parted I said the words, "I love you" as I always do. She asked why I was saying those words under such circumstance. I replied that if whatever should happen to one or both of us - that I wanted those to be the last words I spoke to her. The last words I spoke to my father and my mother were spoken in the circumstance that I was quite sure it was our last exchange. I thought to give opportunity for other to express their "last words" or what they might think they would like to be their last words. Thanks The Traveler
  7. Traveler

    Holy Ghost - What do we know about him?

    It appears to me that the term "Fully" is an attempt to teach for doctrine the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture. Joseph Smith was given the Gift of the Holy Ghost the same as was Peter (the ancient apostle of Christ). But for someone to understand the truth of the Holy Ghost they must have the Gift of the Holy Ghost and through that gift and faith in Jesus Christ all things that are true are made known. Our arguments of Adam or Joseph Smith may be fun discussion but are not necessary to know the truth. The Traveler
  8. Traveler

    The Plan of Salvation and dependence

    I am not sure that the terms dependent and independent are being spoken of in the correct context. Dependence is and of necessity something external while independence is and of necessity something internal. Two things - we are given revelation to understand that the purpose of the plan of salvation is that we can become independent. We also know that Satan wants to prevent independence. And so there exist a most strange paradox. The only way to become independent is to depend on G-d. Part of independence is to be inseparably connected with the spirit body to the physical body. Thus Satan is dependent on G-d and therefore must abide by the law of G-d the rules over him (Satan). The only way to become independent through the law is to be "justified" by the law. So this is where sin comes in; because by sin we are condemned by the law rather than justified. Only by overcoming sin are we justified by the law - because sin is a transgression of the law. By overcoming the law the law becomes our servant but until we overcome the law we are subservient to the law. One other point - because we are fallen through transgression of the law (weather by ignorance or if beguiled) we are helpless and dependent on our proctor of the law to redeem our fallen condition under the law. The Traveler
  9. Traveler

    Holy Ghost - What do we know about him?

    I do not intend to argue nuances of doctrine as much as principles that are and must be true. Jesus was a member of the G-d head from the very beginning of the plan of salvation and all associated covenants long before he was born of Mary. He was the Great I AM of the Old Testament and the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Sometimes I have a difficult time trying to figure out terms used by people. For example, when you say "Fully Divine" - I do not understand what difference you are trying to describe (or make) that is so unworthy from singular term "Devine"? For me the adverb "Fully" adds nothing to the conversation and appears to be meaningless. The Traveler
  10. Traveler

    Enochs time compared to ours

    I think you are looking at this all wrong. It is true that wickedness has prospered much in the history of mankind. That is not what sets Enoch apart. It is the righteousness of the saints that stands out as the great difference. Saints so strong that the wickedness of that generation could not penetrate their sacred homes. Their communities so knit together that all seeking to do evil stood afar off and feared the saints and the protections of G-d. As much as I would like to brag - I cannot. My home, my heart and my soul is not ready. But then I am old and perhaps my weaknesses will not matter that much longer - but most of you are a lot younger than me. I wish you well and hope to cheer you on from the great beyond. The Traveler
  11. Traveler

    Neuro's seitch for fremen fanboys

    Initially I liked the first Dune book - but I was younger. As I became older I have become more disappointed in science fiction because there has become an overabundance of fiction and an alarming ignorance of science. Here is an interesting thought for science fiction. What the earth thinks is a first contact with a super intelligent interstellar society with nothing but benevolent intentions but then comes to realize that they are coming to earth to destroy all the wicked and preserve the righteous and how they distinguish between the two does not quite fit with the human paradigm. The Traveler
  12. Traveler

    Why the focus on the man's skin color?

    The church is still small. We do live in a unique time where the Church spans through many nations. Please do not take my comments wrong. Though I have never been to Brazil - I am grateful for the Saints there. I have traveled to many nations and one of my greatest joys is meeting with the Saints - even when I cannot understand the language. It may seem odd to you because I am what the world calls white. I am of Danish descent (blond hair and blue eyes) and a 5th generation member of the Church. My ancestors came by wagon to Utah and are honored as pioneers. But it is interesting how we all want to think we have a special representative among the apostles. My mother was a school chum with Elder Marion D. Hanks and my uncle was Elder Hanks life long best friend. Elder Hanks was our "Danish" apostle after 3 generations. There is not one now - but my generation broke from tradition. My wife is brunette, brown/hazel eyes and much darker complected - not a drop of "Danish" blood in her line - We know because we have done DNA tests. Plus her parents are both first generation converts. Now members are in many nations - when I was in Taiwan there were strong active wards but 90% of the ward members had only been members for 2 years or less. I cannot express my joy in seeing so many new and even "non-white" members and hope to have the blood of new generations in the Church mingled with my family through descendants. I express my welcome to you personally and add that since my youth I was taught by my parents to pray for every nation, kindred tongue and people to be represented in the kingdom of G-d on earth. Because we are all of one and the same family in G-d and this is the time to remember and join with all our brothers and sisters. The Traveler
  13. Traveler

    Why the focus on the man's skin color?

    Interesting comment about the Bible because every Apostle chosen by personally Jesus prior to his curafiction was from the area of Galilee (not a place with a lot of population - even by Jewish standards) and ever apostle named in the New Testament was born Jewish. The Traveler
  14. Traveler

    USA Economy

    I was involved in the automation of a GE plant in Virginia - that operates just like every other corporate entity (some good with some bad). In addition I have been a little more concerned with GE ever since I learned they got involved in the personal disputes (and legal rangaling) between Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla and sadly picked the wrong side. But this was like two generations ago. As far as the general economy - I believe the best economic advice for all Saints of all eras is ----- {drum roll} --- STAY OUT OF DEBT! And in the case of thoses not paying attention to history. To the person - there was not one individual that apostatized from the early church because of the Kirtland Safety Society that did not speculate and create enough debt to ruin them completely when the Kirtland Safety Society failed and went under. They thought that the church would save them regardless of their personal economic foolishness and despite the spiritual blessing they had been given. This apostasy included both counselors in the first presidency and half of the apostles. The Traveler
  15. Traveler

    Questions for Apostles

    My question - Are there things GAs will say or talk about privately and/or off the record that they will not say or talk about openly in public and/or on the record? I do believe I know the answer and that it is somewhat redundant but I thought to add it here on this thread because I think most questions have a variance of this question embedded or hidden in them. The Traveler