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Traveler last won the day on August 18 2018

Traveler had the most liked content!

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About Traveler

  • Rank
    Senior Member
  • Birthday 08/22/1946

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  • Gender
  • Location
    Sandy Utah
  • Interests
    Science, Cycling, Skiing, (outdoors in general), Liberty and Gospel Doctrine.
  • Religion
    Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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  1. Traveler

    Local policy

    You are a smart lady and you know how to sing your signature - you sign the medical forms. Besides you probably know your son's health better than any doctor anyway. Little story: I worked for a large automation company and knew the VP very well. Not sure why but he had my desk moved to just outside his big old office. He said it was so he could keep his eye on me. Ha! he should have known better. To save money the company came up with a new travel policy that only the VP or P could authorize travel. Very stupid idea because that is what we did - travel to sell and install systems. Then one day I was at my desk working (as always) when some guy comes to the VP's office But no one is there. The guy gets bent out of shape and begs the VP's secretary for where the VP is. She responds that he is out of town. The guy is distraught and says he must travel that afternoon and there is no one to approve his travel. This is an easy problem to solve I thought. So I walk up, "I'll sign your travel papers". We exchange a little bit because he does not know me but knows enough that I am not the VP or P. He asks, "Are you sure you can sign the travel approval?" Sure - and I take the paper and sign it and send him off the the travel Dep for his tickets and stuff. The secretary is beside herself and reminds me that I cannot sign for the travel. I respond with an - of course I can and I did - can't you wait to see what is going to happen? The guy traveled that day and I never heard a thing about it from anyone - but about a week later the policy was changed. The Traveler
  2. Traveler

    Local policy

    Stranger things - when I lived in the Seattle area (maybe near @Vort?) we had a ward boundary next to us wind through several streets (a couple of miles) down the center of the street until it came to one house that would otherwise be in our ward. The boundary then went around just one house and then returned back to the neighboring ward winding down the same middle of streets. The house was the home of the bishop in the neighboring ward. Sometimes priesthood leadership has an impact on ward boundaries. The Traveler
  3. Traveler

    Local policy

    My favorite - an older guy that is frightened of doctors goes with his wife for a checkup. After the checkup the doctor wants to consult with the old guy but in his fear - he sends in his wife to talk to the doctor. The conversation with the doctor takes place: Doctor: I am glad you came in - your husband has a very uncommon condition that can be easily treated but you need to be involved. Wife: What do I need to do? Doctor: First let me say that his condition is critical so - either your husband must have more sex or he is going to die. Later on the way home the older guy got up the courage to ask his wife. Older Guy: What did the doctor say? Wife: He said you are going to die. The Traveler
  4. Traveler

    Misbehaving Children

    All things considered - I like you and your attitude in this post. When I served as Scoutmaster I often got phone calls from parents. Whenever a parent called I would stop them and say something like the following. "If you are calling to tell me that your kid is a horrible influence on other kids and needs to be kicked out of scouts I will listen and perhaps we can work something out. If you want to tell me some kid, other than yours needs help and understanding and really is not a bad kid - I will listen and perhaps we can work something out. But if you want some other kid ought to be punished or your kid given extra considerations - you might just as well hang up now before I hang up on you. Because I do not want to hear it." One fine brother became somewhat unhappy and vowed to have me released. I recommended that when he talked to the bishop that he tell the bishop he would happily take my place - but then I suggested that he may want to come on a couple of campouts first. BTW he did take me up and come on a campout - he became a regular. In case anyone else is reading (I am sure milkbone gets it) but kids (and often adults) love recognication. In addition I have never met anyone that responds badly to incentives. Water will not flow down hill without the incentive of gravity and will never go uphill on it own but must be forced. In scouts the boys that showed up in full uniform, their shirts tucked in and looking sharp were rewarded (some parents thought it bribery) - sloopy (disrespectful) kids always got cleanup duties (most undesirable assignments) - last to eat and the first to be woken in the mornings (hopefully readers get the idea). One thing I learned from the army - when someone responds poorly to discipline the entire group is punished. It is amazing what peer pressure does. My most famous quote and one my scouts still use themselves revolves around when things seem to go wrong" A little story - I was with my scouts at a premier scout camp in Yellowstone wilderness. It was towards the end of a day and our camp was running like clockwork. The tents were in perfect rows, bags rolled up and everything was neet; wood piles neatly stacked and so on - we had finished dinner and dishes were being completed (bear boxes set up and raised into the trees) and the boys were starting to organize some games with the adult leaders - I called my troop and patrol leaders and suggested we walk around some of the other camps and see what we could learn. We walked through three other camps - one had not even started their dinner, one the leaders were yelling (cursing) at their boys and in the third there had been a food fight, one of the scouts was crying and there were no leaders in sight. All of the camps were sloppy and all the tents were a mess. I asked my boys, what they thought - What they said was interesting - they said these other kids were not having any fun. It took 3 years to get so organized - but none of my boys would leave scouts to go on to explorers and varsity. Not all my boys became eagles and not all served missions - but to this day (over 30 years later) they all remember scouts as one of their best memories growing up. Just last week one of my boys (that did not go on a mission and is still single and not real active - goes to church very occasionally) dropped by for a quick visit. The Traveler
  5. Traveler

    Misbehaving Children

    Okay - I will make a confession. In my youth it thought it my responsibility to convince my teachers to resign. Not so long ago talking to my brother (a genius with a photographic memory) he thought the same himself - likely I got it from him. This carried over into college. Especially when the professor had written his own text that was required for the class and costs more than other text books covering the curriculum. I spend far too much time finding any mistakes and bring up the mistakes in class with the intent of embarrassing the professor. Some years ago, my wife and I were asked to take over a primary class that had gone through 3 teachers in 4 months. In about 3 seconds in the class I knew exactly what the problem was. It was a kid just like me. Although we are no longer in the same ward we are in the same stake. We enjoy catching up at every stake conference. The last time I talked to my young friend he told me of his mission call. Sometimes (not always) kids that cause problems just want to be heard and recognized - sometimes for valid reasons and they have worthwhile things to be considered. Sometimes (as a disciple of Christ) we need to listen to our students (subordinates and lessor Saints) and not always have an agenda to teach. My wife is the best at listening - I am still learning and fully emphasize with milkbone. I believe this is idea to listen and apply is the main message of Moroni chapter 10. The Traveler
  6. Traveler

    CFM 6/9 to 6/15

    I believe Pilate was to his core as evil as the Pharisees but with a much different agenda and so he was often in opposition to the Jews. I believe Jesus could have played into Pilate's hatred of the Jews and especially the Pharisees to save his own life but Jesus didn't - to his credit. I do not believe for a minute that Pilate was trying to keep the peace - rather I believe he was the consummate (evil) politician pandering to Rome and his own personal power and position. The Jews were a pitiful power on the world stage - only thinking themselves significant. Within 40 years the Jews would be crushed by Rome in one of the most brutal exercises against humanity recorded in history. And it wasn't just the Jews - what Rome would do to Egypt would leave that once great civilization forever in the shadows as a very minor country and society forever after. BTW as bad as we think of the Pharisees - if it was not for them we would not have the Old Testament scriptures today. The Traveler
  7. Traveler

    Matt 24

    I see these as rather minor schisms. And I believe that the so called "conservative" gospel is more likely to deceive even the very elect. Liberalism will only deceive the really stupid, silly and naive. The Traveler
  8. Traveler

    Matt 24

    I believe you are asking a good and important question. It would seem that since the days of Cain there has been apostasy in every dispensation. Isaiah describes apostasy - not as a time of false belief and doctrine but the completion of three critical elements of apostasy: #1. Transgression of the Law #2. Changing of the Ordinances #3. Breaking the everlasting covenant (Marriage). I would add that to follow apostasy as Isaiah describes would of necessary bring about misconceptions of doctrine. I bring this up because it may be possible that misconceptions of doctrine do not necessarily bring about apostasy. I could provide many examples in scripture where the principle of repentance and compassion prevented apostasy. But you ask a question concerning false Christs. The term "Christ" comes to us from the ancient Greek. From ancient Hebrew the term is Messiah. Sometimes I wonder if the term Christ carries misconceptions more so than Messiah. Basically both terms mean "Anointed" but in a context inclusive beyond what some consider - or with broader definition (doctrine) than is seldom emphasised. It is inclusive of divine appointment of the following: 1. King: which is ownership of wealth, riches and all physical things (including the pets we think we own, our bodies, even the air we breathe). 2. Interpreter or sovereign of the law. We like to think we are free but we are only free if we are so gifted by the Messiah or one anointed. 3. Judge. I should not have to explain what this means. But I would add that it is not what we do or do not do it is what is accepted or rejected by the Judge that defines "Justice" or having been judged. Jesus said it is not what it appears to be - not what is on the outside but we are judged for what is inside our heart (or core of our being - not what is controlling or emotions or pumping our blood). 4. Priest. This is the one from who we receive ordinance, through who we obtain divine direction, forgiveness of our sins. 5. Savior. Though this is somewhat similar to Priest and King - I list it separately because it requires sacrifice - even unto death and the power to restore life. 6. Protector. The one that will subdue all our enemies and protect (deliver) us from all that intend us harm. The protector is the commander of armies and police 7. Procter. The one that controls our trials, teaches us our destiny and determines when we have completed our purpose. 8. Demigod. With both human and g-d parientage. The may be other elements - but I make this list to broaden and expand understanding not to define it. Historically there have been a number of individuals that have claimed to be the divine anointed one. Perhaps the oldest in history is Zoroaster (I have my personal belief but I list this first). Another famous in history and scripture is Baal. Another famous historical figure was Alexander the Great. Actually, since Jesus I am not aware of a claim of Christ. But Matt 24 also makes a reference that there will be many that claim to come in the Name of Christ (Prophets). Because we live in a republic democracy very few understand what it means to be sent in the name of someone else or to take upon the name of someone else. It is the idea of "His Name" that I believe to be of most importance in our time. The idea of a restoration indicates that the Messiah (Christ) is being represented in name (which is a meaning of Apostle) . I would point out that the Catholic Church and in particular the Pope claim the authority of the Messiah by name. Most protestants, as I understand, think that anyone that believes in Jesus has right to (authority of) his name. Other than the Catholic Church - I am not aware of any other Church other than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that claims unbroken Apostolic authority to the name of Christ or Messiah. But there is also something else - the Book of Mormon describes this something else as "The Great and Abominable Church". This is the church, organization and kingdom of Satan. The Book of Revelation describes this as as "The Antichrist". It is my personal belief that many will believe the Antichrist to be Jesus returned. And though I believe many have walked among us in the name of the Antichrist - I am not sure and do not believe that the Antichrist has been manifested - yet. The Traveler
  9. A story from my distant past. I joined the army at 17 where I finished high school. Being in the army was a profound culture shock for me coming from a smaller city in Utah dominated by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My first night in basic training I knelt by my bed and uttered a vocal prayer as I had always done - not knowing that some (many) would find such an act, something worthy of public ridicule. Even those of authority took great pleasure in drawing negative attention whenever possible to all things I hold sacred and dear. Worse of all for me was the foul language. Few could utter a simple sentence without a wide spectrum and array of words so vulgar I wondered - honestly if hell could be worse. It seemed to me that all others were intent on breaking me away and causing some word to be uttered by my lips that was appropriate for a "real man". During basic training we were not allowed to leave the company so attending church was not possible. I was very isolated and alone and resolved that I had been abandoned - even by heaven. But I remembered the stories in scripture of others as somewhat similar circumstance and determined the more to remain faithful. To this day my heart aches for young Joseph being sold into slavery in Egypt. Obviously he endured so much more and for much longer than my circumstance. Never-the-less I resolved myself to my isolation with no expectation of relief. Towards the end of basic training I sat with my company for a lecture of gas warfare and the proper use of equipment should we encounter gas. The sargent giving the lecture had the usual foul mouth and prided himself in every attempt to offend with his vulgar words. Then he stopped and asked if anyone was offended by his language and if so that they should stand. So I stood up - not realizing that I was being set up. I was targeted and accused of being childish and a coward and a threat to my comrades in combat. The lecture went on for what seemed to me much longer than it should. I thought myself alone and rejected by all. I was informed I was no longer in a sissy Sunday School class but that I was in the real world and would have to face much worse things than colorful words. It was time for me to grow up and be a man. The sargent went on to explain how I was caught up and alone in silly expectations. He wanted me to see exactly how isolated I was and how much I needed to conform the the norm. I thought I had really stepped in it this time and should not have stood up. He then said that all in my company that agreed with me should stand up. To my utter astonishment the entire company stood up. I would like to say that we all lived happily ever after but that was not quite the case - but things did change. A few from my company ended up joining the church. But most of all I learned that I was not hated by everybody for being loyal to what I believe to be a disciple of Christ (not nearly as much as I had thought) - at least not by everyone that I thought for sure hated me. When orders were issued for combat at the end of training it was not a few that came to me to be taught how to pray. Including some of those that said they did not believe in any G-d. The Traveler
  10. I believe it is important to realize the the Mulekites and not the Lehites named the river Sidon. Sidon was the name of the capital of the Phoenicians and the Phoenicians were a seafaring society that was friendly to Israel going back to king David - and the king of Phoenicia (Hyram). This little tidbit is evidence of the Book of Mormon having a connection to history and a vast array of historical speculation, even though such things are not explained in the Book of Mormon text that any document written strictly for historical purposes should have done. The Book of Mormon is divinely inspired prophetic for our day and time. But I do find so very interesting that the river of such great importance to the Nephites was named Sidon. The Traveler
  11. I always cringe when someone swears and especially when they use the L-rd's name in vain. However, we live in a society where vulgar language is not just normal but considered somewhat "proper" and acceptable. A while back I thought to no longer watch any TV show where the L-rd's name was used improperly. Within a week the only thing I could watch were general conference recording - no scheduled programming with perhaps the exception of BYU TV. Perhaps I am hypersensitive with this issue - it is in part why on the internet I never spell out L-rd or G-d. My point is - that if we shut out or isolate those individuals that use the L-rd's name in vain then we may find ourselves in a situation where we do not talk to anybody - including many church members. I do not know the answer to this - but I will say one thing. There are certain words I will not tolerate in my home. And I do not care how otherwise wonderful someone or some movie is - it is not welcome in my home. Same with smoking (including weed). I am not so concerned if someone indulges - just not in my personal "safe" home space - ever. The Traveler
  12. Traveler

    Can you use the Priesthood to bless animals?

    I believe that the problem of the Pharisees was not so much of what they believed as it was that they believed they should define for others what they should believe as well - meaning that they refused to see or consider other points of view. And that they wanted to hold others to a higher standard than they would to themselves. I do admit that often, especially on the internet and this forum, that I will defend (argue) a point of view not because I believe it to be the only possible thing that is true but that others might realize (or at least consider) that there is more to a matter than what they seem willing to consider. I argued with my companion - not to convince him that he was wrong and that something else was right but rather that he consider other possibilities. I have tried his advice and method in giving thanks when I have brought home the groceries and I have given thanks before eating - I believe I have learned that G-d is not unhappy when his covenant children give thanks. I do believe G-d is disappointed and greaves a little when we are not willing to give thanks and be thankful. I do agree with you - that how we go about the letter of the law (as in this case) to define how to give thanks is not at all what is important or what it means to "hit the mark". The Traveler
  13. Traveler

    Can you use the Priesthood to bless animals?

    I grew up in a home where most of the meat we ate, we raised (chickens and rabbits) or we hunted (deer, elk and moose). When it was time to slaughter our domestic, for the table pets, we would kneel in prayer giving thanks both for the opportunity to raise them and for their sacrifice for our table. We would also kneel in prayer when we made a hunting kill. I do believe something has been lost during my generation with so many (including my own children and grandchildren) that will waist good meat and through it out without a second thought. I am of the thought that there is an inherent evil to waist the life of another creature and not care that something died that we could have meat – to have it killed and not be diligent in making sure the flesh is dealt with sparingly. Many interpret the WoW use of sparingly to mean that we do not eat meat or avoid eating meat whenever possible – I believe it means, at least in part, that we do not waste the life and flesh of noble creatures – with the exception of misquotes – I kill those little blood suckers every chance I get. As a side note - when our family dog was near death I took him to the vet. When the vet explained that the dog was in the process of dying and would not recover - I said I would take care of putting the dog down. The vet informed me that it is illegal and a crime (animal cruelty) to put down your own pet and punishable with jail time and a hefty fine. I do not know where some ideas come from - I was taught and believe that part of the responsibility of owning and caring for a pet was, when the time came, to put that family friend down yourself. I see the idea of paying someone else in this matter as somewhat immoral and irresponsible. One last thing - I do understanding blessing an animal with our prayers - but to say or imply by saying, "Having been commissioned (commanded) by Christ through his appointed servants and through the power of the holy Melchizedek that I hold." Is a very different matter and should not be used to satisfy our individual wants, cares, desires or intent. The Traveler
  14. Traveler

    Can you use the Priesthood to bless animals?

    I believe when we speak of "the mark" that the actual mark is the exercise of faith. I am inclined to think that no one falls away while exercising faith but rather they fall away when they no longer exercise faith. It is my understanding that we exercise "true" faith when we believe in and call upon Christ - giving thanks to him for all things. Unless we have the faith of a child (not the wisdom or understanding) we will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. The Traveler
  15. Traveler


    I believe there are two considerations. First consideration is during our mortal probation - sacrifice and suffering is required in order to pass through mortality. Suffering in part also means pain. After we pass through mortality all pain will be taken away - with the exception of that for which we would not sacrifice, suffer and repent of in our mortality. The Traveler