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Wasn't wound up... OK Relax.

I never said the LDS church said that. I quoted @Traveler’s post-which did say, “In matters of civil law, I agree. In matters of ecclesiastical law it is different and should be according to ecclesiastical law.” And I added, “it sounds like what I heard in 2003. When Catholics said “Keep it in house. Sweep it under the rug. Let the church police themselves.” So yeah, that’s concerning ” because, based on my experience, I heard Catholics say comments just like @Traveler said.

Did I miss something or a post here saying the LDS church is engaged in this?

In matters of civil law, I agree. In matters of ecclesiastical law it is different and should be according to ecclesiastical law. Indeed. Civil law: child molestation is against it. Go to the cops first. Ecclesiastical law: Sinners need help to repent. Callings may or may not be rescinded based on those in authority who have access to revelation. Church membership may or may not be withdrawn for various things. You shouldn't get in the way of that. Going to the cops doesn't get in the way of it either.

There seems to be a fair number of scholars who believe that this was a way of saying that it was a significant number, but not the largest part. Given that it's beyond irrelevant, I decided I was wasting my time to look into it further. Think about when a modern person says there were a billion people at Disneyland. We all know that what they meant is, "it was crowded." But in a few thousand years, will our readers know that's what we meant?

Having said this, when people say “In matters of ecclesiastical law it is different and should be according to ecclesiastical law.” it sounds like what I heard in 2003. When Catholics said “Keep it in house. Sweep it under the rug. Let the church police themselves.” So yeah, that’s concerning

Right, it’s a general warning, not personal.

I didn't see anyone saying "it couldn't" or it doesn't in this thread.

From what I have seen and heard, the default understanding of most people has been that pretty close to exactly one third of spirits chose to follow Satan and thus are not to receive a body. But that doesn't mean the possibility of that being the correct interpretation has to be disproven to make the other interpretation possible. So, disregarding whether people at the time the verses in question were written used and understood fractions, is it plausible that the three parts could be referring to three groups of people, with the groups not necessarily being close in size?

22/7 -> π

Good to see you again bro. Hope you are doing okay down under

And more than 10 pages of references for the word quarter

I just did a simple search of the Old Testament on the word half. I got more than 10 pages of references,

Exactly. This isn’t the pre-stone age here. They knew math. Even in prehistoric times they had that capability. It’s not really up for debate.

They all used fractions and had methods for calculating any type of fraction. Every historic mathematician agree, there is no dispute. As for the post we are talking abut the language used as a part is considered equal based on fraction, 1/3 is very simple fraction all the ancients used and referred to it as parts. History lession.. https://welovefractions.weebly.com/history.html http://nrich.maths.org/content/id/2515/Hieroglyph.gif Egyptian fractions Around 1800 BCE, the Egyptians started using hieroglyphs to express their number and fractions. Because the hieroglyphs were unique, the order in which they were arranged did not matter. Egyptian Rhind papyrus 2/n table This table represents how to express fractions of the form 2/n where n is an element of the odds from 5 to 101. Numbers in the column to the right of the 2/n numbers represent the denominators of the unit fractions that make up the 2/n number. A few examples are below: http://aleph0.clarku.edu/~djoyce/ma105/2byn.html http://www.math.wichita.edu/history/Images/greek-table.gif ancient greece Around 700 BCE to 400 BCE (when Alexander the Great ruled the lands) the Ancient Greeks (who really thought of themselves as the normal Greeks at the time) started using their number system that was very specific. Their number system allowed for fractions that were more developed than unit fractions.

I've not seen much discussion to this online and only a few articles detailing the fact, but supposedly the Church has seen some setbacks in China, with the Chinese national congregations being shut down. I've not been able to tell from the news circulating online if this is all congregations, or just the Chinese specific congregations, and it's also unclear as to whether this is happening across China as a whole, or just in Beijing. Regardless, let's have our Chinese Brothers and Sisters in our prayers as this is likely going to be even more of a challenging time for them on the horizon. I wonder what this likely means for the Shanghai temple, I highly doubt we will see the construction of this temple until there is some sort of regime change in China. I wonder if it is possible the Church abandons this project entirely. Satan is certainly waxing strong currently.

Agree.

I entirely agree and didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I'm just dubious that "sustain your leaders" plays much of a factor in cases of abuse - especially child abuse.

I grew up in the “belly of the beast” and saw firsthand the devastating effect on the Catholic Church that the priest-bishop scandal had. If we are worried about trust, the best thing to do is have more transparency, more openness and more discussion about abuse. It’s impossible to express the devastating effect it had on Catholicism. To think it couldn’t happen in our house is very naive.

Of all people, you could correct me if I'm wrong, but I really don't think that teaching people to sustain their leaders can be argued to contribute to such abuse. My understanding is that abusers are subtle and manipulative and good at targeting the vulnerable. Whether the vulnerable were taught to sustain their leaders doesn't seem like it's going to have much impact here. Training them to distrust might, but I don't think we want the pendulum to swing that far in the other direction...

I am going to throw this out there since our drive by poster (who posted on Wednesday and has not even returned to the forum) made his comment. The allegation is that there is a lot of sexual criminal conduct in the church. He said he lived in Utah for 50+ years. I have lived in Utah since 1978. I did spend a few years out of Utah between then and 1997 when I became a police officer. I work in Utah. I am in the community filled with LDS of ALL types. I have been investigating crime for 27-28 years (too tired to do the math.) In all those years I have investigated NO actively holding the calling bishop or stake president. I am personally aware of one ex bishop and one ex stake president who were investigated. The point I am making is if it was as rampant as the drive by poster stated I would know about it. It isn't happening on any sort of level that was posted.

L @Traveler-this was said in the Catholic church by parishioners when people tried to dance around their own SA cases. It caused more damage in that church than can be fully expressed. Thankfully, the way of thinking is headed out and being replaced with more transparency and common sense.

Sounds tasty, however, Mr Hinkle is one terrifying looking Daddy. Almost as scary as this image:

In matters of civil law, I agree. In matters of ecclesiastical law it is different and should be according to ecclesiastical law. The Traveler

All reasons I might not marry someone. Oof. Trust issues aren't fun things to deal with. Difficult and complicated and sensitive. Sorry to hear that. God bless you in your journey.