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  2. anatess2

    Celebrity Doppelganger

    One more time... CULTURAL CEREMONY versus MARITAL COVENANT. IT MATTERS. Jesus was not conceived OUT OF WEDLOCK which does not FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS.
  3. Vort

    Neil Peart

    I thought the ancestral future memories thing was an interesting idea. Clarke is not my favorite sci-fi author, but I enjoy his writings. The "science" part of his science fiction was, frankly, better than average for his time (or ours). While Clarke did not first invent the idea of a geostationary orbit, he popularized it.
  4. Midwest LDS

    Push for Utah to mandate statewide mask wearing

    You do realize I wear a mask because of recommendations from medical experts not politicians right? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/about-face-coverings.html. When a majority of doctors tell me it's not helpful I'll stop wearing one. Oh and using a video of AOC means nothing to me. I'm a conservative.
  5. Scott

    Celebrity Doppelganger

    Here is the exact words Russell M Nelson used: Their espousal might be likened to an engagement in our culture What is your interpetation? Take your pick: https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/bible-interpretation/were-mary-and-joseph-married-or-engaged-at-jesus-birth/ https://biblehub.com/topical/e/espouse.htm https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/espouse/ Or just look at the other translations of the Bible: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+2%3A5&version=NIV https://biblehub.com/dbt/luke/2.htm https://biblehub.com/web/luke/2.htm https://biblehub.com/ylt/luke/2.htm Notice the first sentence uses the words engagement, though the second sentence uses terminology not accepted by historians. It may have been the first step in the marriage/wedding process, but it wasn't the last and the bride and groom weren't allowed to consumate the marriage until you are married. You aren't married at the beginning of the ceremony, it is at the end. Why does that bother you and Vort so much? Why does it matter since there was no immorality what-so-ever involved?
  6. anatess2

    LAPD Budget

    Well... at least they stated they're also cracking down on violence caused by their own community members. On a side note... I find it super stupid for investigative reporters to report on camera with a mask on. It drastically reduces my ability to understand what he's saying. It's you and your cameraman... the camera has a zoom lens and you're holding a microphone. He obviously was not worried about the guy being interviewed not wearing a mask. If your camera man is worried about your virus he can stand 20 feet out and still video capture.
  7. anatess2

    Victory Garden

    Will they fit in a priority mail box? 😅
  8. NeuroTypical

    Neuro's seitch for fremen fanboys

    COVID may have delayed the release, but it's still coming! Only fake trailers so far, though.
  9. anatess2

    Celebrity Doppelganger

    That's EXACTLY how it is used in the Bible and Jewish culture. I don't know who those Biblical Scholars are that you mentioned. And your interpretation of what Russel M. Nelson stated is questionable. There is CULTURAL MARRIAGE and there is SPIRITUAL MARRIAGE. The preparation of a dowry has NOTHING at all to do with the SPIRITUAL marriage that starts as soon as both sides sign their names to the marital contract. If you want to compare it to modern times, you can go have your fancy royal-like wedding with reception and bridezilla moments and days and days of parties... you are not married UNTIL you sign that marital contract. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2006/12/mary-and-joseph?lang=eng What does it mean that Joseph and Mary were espoused? “Espousal among the Hebrews was significantly more binding than are our engagements today. It was entered into by written agreement and was considered the formal beginning of the marriage itself. While the couple might not actually live together for as much as a year after the betrothal—a time designed to allow the bride to prepare her dowry—the espousal was as legally binding as the formal marriage” (Gerald N. Lund, in Celebration of Christmas: A Collection of Stories, Poems, Essays, and Traditions by Favorite LDS Authors [1988], 31).
  10. Today
  11. @MormonGator, @JohnsonJones, @Midwest LDS: And here's another one:
  12. @MormonGator, @JohnsonJones, @Midwest LDS And here's proof that the authorities that are mandating the masks are full of excrement:
  13. Scott

    Celebrity Doppelganger

    That's not how it is used in the Bible. Unless of course you disagree with Russell M Nelson and all the Biblical scholars, and Jewish culture.
  14. I'm going to answer this even if this is not the point of GOVERNMENT MANDATED masks. @JohnsonJones and @Midwest LDS might also want to take note. DOCTOR Glaucomflecken, if he is a REAL doctor, would know that mask regulations have been in place since forever and a day in Medical Offices as well as non-medical facilities as OSHA guidelines. You can go to the OSHA website if you like and read up on their mask regulations. Here's some excerpts: Facemask—A loose-fitting, disposable device that creates a physical barrier between the mouth and nose of the wearer and potential contaminants in the immediate environment. Facemasks may be labeled as surgical, laser, isolation, dental, or medical procedure masks and are cleared by the FDA for marketing. They may come with or without a face shield. Facemasks do not seal tightly to the wearer’s face, do not provide the wearer with a reliable level of protection from inhaling smaller airborne particles, and are not considered respiratory protection. Respirators are designed and regulated to provide a known level of protection when used within the context of a comprehensive and effective respiratory protection program (see the “Types of Respiratory Protection” section on page 15). For example, filtering facepiece respirators are designed to seal tightly to the face when the proper model and size is selected for the individual by using a fit test procedure. The wearer can then be assured that inhaled air is forced through the filtering material, which allows contaminants to be captured and reduces exposure to both large droplets and small infectious particles. Here's an article comprised of facemask studies from 1946 to 2018: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article Excerpt: Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza. Here's a study on reusable cloth face masks versus disposable surgical mask back in 2015 that shows cloth masks is 95% ineffective: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4420971/ Excerpt: The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. The results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Summary: Is summary - to protect a wearer or the patient from the Flu Vrius - you need a RESPIRATOR. Surgical masks only protect you and others from diseases carried by body fluids. Cloth face masks are NOT HEALTHY.
  15. anatess2

    Celebrity Doppelganger

    es·pouse /iˈspouz/ verb past tense: espoused; past participle: espoused 1. adopt or support (a cause, belief, or way of life). "he turned his back on the modernism he had espoused in his youth" 2. ARCHAIC marry. "Edward had espoused the lady Grey"
  16. anatess2

    Liberals in the Church

    You place individual interpretation over the interpretation of the modern prophets. Wasn't it you (if I'm mistaken I apologize) that had a different understanding of the Plan of Salvation than what is presented in the temple rites?
  17. Carborendum

    LAPD Budget

    In all this racism and politics, can we take a moment and think about the police who have been murdered since Floyd's death? Note: the link here is ALL 2020 police deaths. But as we get further into the year we see more and more. A great number of them COVID deaths. They are pretty much always out in the public. They have to expose themselves. But how many gunfire deaths? A LOT. https://www.odmp.org/search/year At the same time, all across the country, police are not only applying for retirement benefits at record rates, but they are experiencing PTSD and similar mental incapacitation problems in record numbers. https://meuserlaw.com/
  18. Carborendum

    Neil Peart

    I thought CE made for a great science fiction story. But for any philosophical benefits, I thought it was a completely pointless story. It was about as poignant as Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Great sci-fi. But bereft of anything meaningful. One thing I remember that frustrates me to this day was the explanation for why the overseers looked like demons. I remember that the entire class, including the teacher, never knew why. I told the class that the overseer explained why that is. It was all spelled out in black and white. They all looked at me as if I was from Mars. No one remembered it. Now, THAT would have been something to delve into in a philosophical discussion.
  19. Carborendum

    Liberals in the Church

    Gee, I guess I'm liberal. I believe in all those things too.
  20. Scott

    Celebrity Doppelganger

    This is not the meaning in Biblical text, at least as it pertains to our culture. Espousal is the prepatory period before the formal marriage ceremony and before the couple lives together. Marriages were different back then. LDS.org doesn't say that much on the matter, but it says the following: espouse: To promise in marriage. “To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.” (Luke 1:27.) https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/1977/04/a-short-glossary-of-obsolete-words-in-the-king-james-new-testament?lang=eng Russel M Nelson says the following: Scriptures declare that His mother, Mary, was espoused to Joseph. They had participated in the first of two components of a Jewish marriage ceremony. Their espousal might be likened to an engagement in our culture, which is followed later by the second component of a marriage ceremony.... Before Joseph and Mary came together, she was expecting that holy child. Joseph desired to protect her privacy, hoping to spare Mary the punishment given to a woman pregnant without a completed marriage. https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/russell-m-nelson/christ-savior-born/ From other Biblical dictionaries and sources: Espouse: (2 Samuel 3:14), to betroth. The espousal was a ceremony of betrothing, a formal agreement between the parties then coming under obligation for the purpose of marriage. Espousals are in the East frequently contracted years before the marriage is celebrated. It is referred to as figuratively illustrating the relations between God and his people Or from other non-LDS sources, including an explanation of why Luke may have used the word translated into espoused: http://www.rosarychurch.net/answers/qa082000c.html Question: What does the Gospel mean when it refers to Mary as the "espoused wife" of Joseph? Answer: An "espousal" or "betrothal" is a formal agreement to marry. In modern American terms it would be something more than an engagement, yet less than a marriage. In the Jewish culture of New Testament times, a young woman became marriageable at age twelve and a half. At a ceremony of betrothal, the bride and groom would exchange marital consent, but normally the bride would remain in the house of her father for somewhere between three months and a year. Marriage had the aspect of a man acquiring title to his bride, and only later did he acquire actual possession. We know that Mary and Joseph had completed the contract of betrothal from the testimony given by St. Matthew (i: 18) and St. Luke (ii: 5). What causes some confusion, though is Luke's reference to "Mary his espoused wife" when Mary and Joseph were already in Bethlehem, seeking a place to give birth to our Infant Lord. For them to be in Jerusalem together, Joseph had obviously taken Mary from her father's house, and it seems clear that their betrothal had already been converted into a marriage. As he was aware of the circumstances of our Lord's conception by the Holy Ghost, Luke was probably following the custom of referring to a non-consummated marriage as an "espousal." That's why I said the accounts of Matthew and Luke vary. Also in Biblical times you did indeed need a formal type of annulment or divorce to and a betrothal. Anyway, I provided the commentary only for historical interest and ancient Jewish culture. Why does it matter when the formal marriage ceremony took place and why would it bother you? Personally, given the culture I think Matthew's account of the marriage being complete is the most plausible. It wouldn't bother me either way though. This seems interesting from cultural or historical question, but seems like a non-issue from any moral standpoint.
  21. JohnsonJones

    Liberals in the Church

    I think change is happening very quickly in many aspects of our society, both Liberal and Conservative. In regards to Liberals, it pertains to Democrats and the Democrat party in the US. It has been occurring since at least the 60s. They started trying to appeal to a greater base (which is understandable, any political party wants a broader base) but in their case, it started more to change who their base was. As that base changed, it also changed some of their approaches and ideas. Today many who would have original been part of the Communist party or other parties similar to it have instead joined the Democrat party. They carry labels that identify them as separate from the mainstream democrats, but utilize the Democrat party to push their own agendas. The reason seems to be that they realized they could not win in the US without being part of one of the two major parties, and thus melded into the Democrats to form a Far left and Liberal wing of the Democrats. This (along with the base change of members) has made a shift of axis in the Democrats to be more left or further left, a change that seems to be accelerating. There are still many Democrats that are NOT part of this, however, and lean far more towards the middle. Many of these more traditional Democrats are more conservative than some Republicans. You see change in the Republican party as well. 30 years ago, Trump could never have won the nomination, much less become President. Republicans would not have stood for his immorality if they knew about it (in my opinion). Today, Republicans have a split in their party as well, which has made it harder for them to win some contests. You have some that have moved further to the Right and to the extremes, but at the same time you have those that have moved much further towards a liberal front that accepts things such as Big Budgets, Big spending, Gay Marriage, and a strong central federal government (something that used to be seen as a democrat idea, but is now in many ways also pushed by Republicans, just in different areas today than Democrats). Change is happening very quickly, but I think it is happening in many areas of life in the US (and the world, but that is too broad of a topic currently). It may be that this acceleration is the pre-cursor to the Millennial reign of our Lord, but with the speed it is accelerating it could mean very dark times are for us up ahead (or at least for those who are religious and stand by their religious values).
  22. Vort

    Celebrity Doppelganger

    Nonsense. "Espoused" doesn't mean "promised". It means "married". Joseph and Mary were married. They had not yet consummated their relationship. But Mary was Joseph's "espoused wife", not "girlfriend" or "fiancée". That is why Joseph's response to Mary's pregnancy was to consider "putting her away privily", which is to say "divorce her quietly". You don't divorce your fiancée. You divorce your wife. Otherwise, it's not a divorce.
  23. Jedi_Nephite

    Liberals in the Church

    Liberalism is evil, and a plague on society. Life would be much better for everyone if there were fewer liberals in the world.
  24. MormonGator

    Liberals in the Church

    I like my idea better.
  25. Just_A_Guy

    Liberals in the Church

    Thankfully, belonging to an ideologically consistent political party is not a litmus year for Church membership; or we’d all have been exed years ago.
  26. Just_A_Guy

    Liberals in the Church

    Naturally. But there is a perception of what is and isn’t “mainstream” in any party or group of people; and where Dems are concerned that perception has been shifting leftwards at a dizzying rate.
  27. MormonGator

    Liberals in the Church

    Should the church just say "Republicans only" on the doorstep?
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