Carborendum

Scott, and all other leftists with similar attitudes? I 100% understand why you're not voting for Trump. I've heard all the arguments. I get it. I'm not going to try to argue that you should vote for Trump. But why on earth do you think Biden is a better alternative? EVERY accusation leveled at Trump is MORE true and WORSE with Biden. Then add to that, all the incompetence (before senility set in) and the senility that is more and more obviously taking him over. What on earth could be a motivation to think he's a better choice? Race? Biden is more racist than Trump ever was. Rudeness and bullying attitude? Biden is just as guilty or more. Trump is just better at it and has a more noticeable style. Environment? I could show you their track records to prove Biden's been worse. Women's rights? Again, I could show you their track records. Gay rights? Again I could show you their track records. Healthcare? Believe it or not, I could show you their records. Lifting the minority populations out of poverty and out of prisons? Are you kidding? hands down, Trump wins. Abuse of power? Seriously? If you honestly don't know why Biden is worse in every one of these categories, then you have been blinded by the MSM, and you really need to see the other side of the news. The stuff that the MSM won't tell you because it may "hurt poor little innocent Biden." So, yes, I get that fact you think Trump is a megalomaniacal sycophant who should have never held office. And a part of me agrees. But what on earth would make you think Biden is the LESSer evil? I recognized this fact when I was a Never Trumper. And I chose not to vote for either. To me voting for Trump was like wanting to stand in toilet water. But Biden and Clinton were like standing in a septic tank. This time around, I realize that the whole house is full of toilet water that hasn't been cleaned out in a long time. But Trump at least flushes the toilet.

Yup, the media sealed the coffin on Trump's Presidency in that debate and the aftermath. Too many low information voters were unable to hear about Biden's corruption. They were fed lies about Biden's positions that most moderate Democrats are against. Too many low information voters who think Trump handled the pandemic poorly. Too many think the economy is doing poorly -- with or without the pandemic, it is doing remarkably well compared to the anemic growth during Obama/Biden. Too many low information voters who think Trump is a racist. Too many low information voters who think Biden somehow helped them in the past 47 years. Too many low information voters who think that Trump broke some law or other somewhere. They can't point to what laws. But by Jove, he's broken some, I'm sure of it! And he deserves to be impeached... again! And combine that with the fraud, we all know is happening to some degree on both sides, is kicking into high gear to help Biden. And there doesn't appear to be any help for Trump on that. So, get prepared for ultra high taxes, court packing, more people believing they are "victims", and being told the lie that America is no longer the land of opportunity. Be prepared to get into more wars. And, of course, be prepared for further curtailing of religious freedom. I'm going to start praying for a hurrying of the Second Coming.

That's the beauty of modern life. Geographic separation is not what is important in many cases. I'm geographically separated from Houston proper because downtown Houston... don't want to be there. But the virtual world is something else. I'm going to be able to bug out at home. Me, my family, and my watermelons.

In all my years of apologetics, I've never heard anything that is "bad" about the Church (that was actually true). I've heard an awful lot that is taken out of context, or incomplete information, or mischaracterizations, or a symptom of presentism, and often -- just outright lies. I've heard bad things about people (and a lot of it was untrue, but some was true). But the conflating of the two is what I find most difficult to accept from "a middle space". Of all the things i've heard, they are either perfectly fine once we see the whole story, or we understand that there is more to the story that we simply don't know yet. We can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The baby is fine. That is what is "all true". Just get rid of the bathwater that's all used and dirty. Again, this is the conflation of people in the church with the Church itself. The "Cafeteria Mormon" is merely another way of saying, you're depending on your own wisdom. You're words epistemology, soteirioligy, Christology are all about using man's methods of finding truth. What about Divine methods? The pattern I notice from all you've written here is that you're still trusting in the arm of flesh for your testimony. As a place of beginning, that's fine. That's all most of us have in the beginning. But just as Adam, we're not meant to remain in a state of ignorance. If it never progresses to the point where you're depending on the witness of the Holy Ghost, then you can only go so far. You will only be so strong. And you will eventually fall. And without the witness of the Holy Ghost, man's logic, reason, evidence, knowledge are ignorance -- nothing but sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal. You cannot stay where you are. The Lord does not want us to remain luke warm. We are not supposed to be fence sitters. Life will eventually force you to choose. I pray that you will be open to the Lord's guidance on that.

I haven't gone out of my way to read anti- literature. But it gets thrown at me all the time. So, I can't really avoid it. When I was younger, it gave me some problems because I depended upon my own reasoning and wisdom to combat it. At some point I realized that we cannot hope to use our mortal wisdom and knowledge against Satan who has maintained his memory of the past 6000 years and more. He knows every trick in the book and then some. We cannot fight him using the tools he is THE master of. I've always had some level of testimony. But at some point I realized that my testimony was no longer about study and reason. It was no longer about personal experience with living the gospel. It was based on the firm witness of the Holy Ghost. With that knowledge, nothing really phases me. I admit there are things I don't understand. Easily admit I don't know everything. I can do this because I do know the one thing that is most important. My Heavenly Father is guiding my life, has given me a Savior, and wants me to do XYZ. All the rest is just a distraction. All I need to do is keep my eye on the ball.

I can't disagree with you regarding the state of the union in this generation. I just disagree with your take on it. What was the "solution" in the days of Lehi? Yes, cry repentance. Turn to the Lord. And as individuals and small groups, we can. Lehi, anyone? Daniel? Today... The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. For others, what was the Lord's solution? Yes, he gave Israel every opportunity to repent and return to him. That is always a better solution and better scenario... if the people will actually take advantage of that option. But in Lehi's day and in our day, too many will not turn to the Lord. Sodom and Gomorrah were given SO much leeway. Only FIVE righteous people. But those five were not enough to save the cities of the plains. Instead, the Lord told them to get out while He destroyed the cities. Israel was given SO much leeway, SO many times. But no number was given. Lehi was told to leave. I'm sure others were too. But the solution was to replace all the wicked rulers with a less wicked, but still wicked ruler -- Nebuchadnezzar. Yes, yes, I've said it before. But if you can indulge your anti-Trump hobby horse again, I can indulge this parallel once again. I don't think Daniel and his friends would have ever said that Nebuchadnezzar was righteous. He even said otherwise. But he recognized the course of events that the wickedness of Israel brought upon the nation and people. And he realized they were the judgments of God. In our day, God does not raise up or take down our leaders. We elect them. As a people of differing backgrounds, oipinions, perspectives, and values, we elect them. Because of the level of wickedness of the nation, the ENTIRE nation suffers. The people simply will not accept a Ted Cruz. They outright showed they would not accept a "Bleedin' Mormon." I did an analysis of the numbers. Basically Romney lost the swing state votes by the same number of evangelical Christians in those states. The people don't want such leaders. So, we have to suffer the consequences. The Lord accepts the lesser of two evils for leaders of nations. Why is it such a crime if we do the same? We root for better; we campaign for better, we try to convince others that we should look for better. But in the end, the voice of the people goes elsewhere. And we're left with the unenviable position of the Samuel Principle. "OK, if you're not going to vote for virtuous leaders, there's nothing I can do about it. But to minimize the damage..." In the meantime, I'd echo @mirkwood's advice. Leave Jerusalem and go into the wilderness with provisions. I'm speaking metaphorically mostly. One of the reasons I chose the location I did was that I was close enough to a major city to have business dealings. But I was far enough away that the fire and brimstone won't quite hit me. Yes, if these shadows remain unaltered by the future... there may be no stopping it. All we can do is "pull a Lehi." Cry repentance, then take off.

Great timing for this question. Joint this post with @Colirio's post in the other thread, and we get some answers to some things I've been pondering. Of the many criticisms that I see coming from the left as well as from never-trumpers is that he is DIVISIVE. My knee jerk reaction says this is undeniable. But is that really the case? And even if it is, is that a bad thing? Jesus, Himself was divisive. How is it that the Prince of Peace came NOT to send peace on earth, but a sword? I guess we can kiss a lot of Christmas carols goodbye. No, instead, the Lord did not bring a physical sword to force people with physical violence to His way. Instead his sword was the Sword of His Spirit. It was taking an unwavering stand for something. It was refusing to back down from what was right. I know it is always inviting flack when comparing Trump to Christ. Obviously, not similar people. But the standard the Lord set is always a yardstick by which we may see if something is right or wrong. I am always wondering why people compare Trump to Hitler. Here are some things that prove he's not. We have a majority of Americans who are very vocal about hating him and everything he stands for. I don't see them being hauled away to concentration camps. The fact that he has issued "guidelines" for the shut down and allowed governors to apply them in any way they want -- or not at all (as in several states). He has begged governors to allow him to send in federal forces to help quell the violence taking over cities controlled by Democrats. But he clearly, overtly stated that he has to obey the law that says he cannot send them in without a governor's permission/request He has called the press the "enemy of the people" and "fake news" which was simple fact. But I don't see him shutting any of them down through force. And there are many ways that he could have legally enforced such shut downs given the number of inaccuracies the MSM has published over the past four years. But he hasn't taken any action to close them. NONE!!! What does this have to do with peace? Again and again, he has shown that he is abiding by the law. He's probably the most Constitutional President in my lifetime. So, why do they call him divisive? Any time someone takes an uncompromising position, they are divisive. It doesn't matter if they are good or bad principles. It is the unwillingness to compromise that makes a person divisive. And he has refused to compromise on anything I am aware of. So, how does this play into the idea of waking up or saving the Constitution? I would answer that with a question: Why do so many people find Trump to be so engaging? Why do they think he's such a HERO? The average hard working patriotic American knows what is right. And we believe in freedom. Freedom of Religion, Speech, press, etc. But we all feel that we are losing such rights. Most people are "waiting for Superman." It is a phrase that means that the issues have become so big that no one thinks they can really do anything about it. But they hope that someone who does have some power can actually come forth and do what we all WANT him to do. We had hope with Kennedy. But he did the Bay of Pigs and handled the Cuban Missile crisis poorly. And he started us down the path to Vietnam. Then he was assassinated. So, there's that. Then there was Johnson. I honestly don't know of anyone who thought he did any good. He he got us even further into the quagmire that was Vietnam. Nixon. 'nuff said. SALT -- oh boy. Ford. Nothing. Have a nice trip. See you next fall. He was actually a very decent man. But he was completely ineffective in such a powerful executive role. He was simply harmless as a dove, but not wise as wolves among a swamp of crocodiles. Carter. Worse than nothing. Oil crisis, anyone? SALT II (face palm). We thought it was Reagan. And while he did a lot of good. He compromised on many things as well. Although, I don't think enough credit can be given to him for bringing about the end of the Soviet Union and their stranglehold on all their satellite countries. We didn't really have much faith in Bush Sr. And he mostly did... nothing. And sometimes I wish Presidents would do more of that. We thought it was Clinton. And while he was good for the economy, he destroyed any semblance of honor for the Presidency, and did absolutely nothing else that was lastingly noteworthy. So, between Bush and Clinton, pretty much nothing happened. We thought it was Bush Jr. And he got us into an eternal war, took away a lot of our freedoms, increased the federal bureaucracy, and made it virtually impossible for us to do things without the Federal government knowing about it. We thought it was Obama. He increased freedom for the progressive agenda while curtailing religious freedom at every turn. We got all sorts of additional freedoms at the expense of the freedoms found in the First Amendment. Most of us refused to believe Trump was going to be "it". But he was the flip side of Ford. He was in no way as decent as Ford. But he was absolutely effective at navigating the swamp and rooting out the crocodiles. How many actually expected this? Not the majority. He got us out of several wars. He kept us out of several other wars. He brokered the Middle East peace agreements. He's provided the best economy in history. He's restored religious freedom on a level unparalleled by anyone on this list. He's brought more minorities out of poverty than any 10 liberal politicians. We wake up by noticing that this may be "Superman" (per the figure of speech I outlined earlier). There are two movie quotes that are perfect to describe what I think of Trump. Waiting for Superman. It's the tendency of the human race. Not that we're to be ruled, but that we are to be led. Today, with the Constitution supposedly guaranteeing freedoms, we stand today with surprisingly little. With a Constitution meant to limit governmental power, we find ourselves ruled by politicians who use their power to extort millions (and billions) of dollars with impunity. Mark my words, Obama, Hillary, and neither one of the Bidens will see a single day of prison time over this. Wake up? Yes, we're all awake. But most of us are sitting here saying,"What are we supposed to do about it? We have no power to do anything but vote. And in this election, scams and other fraud is going to take that away from us." What are you (to everyone) doing about it?

And now we're back to cutting and pasting excerpts as specifically pointed out by your anti-Mormon sources. Yes, from the Church website. But specifically couched in context that doesn't actually say what you purport that it says. That was written in a CHILREN'S MAGAZINE. Written to a childish audience with a child's understanding. But that seems to be what you agree with. News for you: There's more to learn from the story. Let's see what the Book of Mormon says: Now, if your goal is to be "as a little child" then be meek, humble, and innocent. But if your intent is to be a brattish know-it-all who won't listen to anyone, who tries to prove everyone else wrong... I don't believe that was what Jesus was talking about.

OK, now we're back to trolling. If one tree (THE one tree) was symbolic then ALL the trees in the garden must have some symbolic meaning even though they were not named, and barely even mentioned. Yup. They MUST have some symbolic meaning or else the ENTIRE interpretation is suspect. Boy, I'm sold. So, that must mean that you also believe in the plurality of gods. Luke 15:6. If everything has a symbolic meaning in every story, then who were the Lord's neighbors and friends? It can't be us (His children because we are the sheep). So, who are they? Who are the hired servants in Luke 15:19? The prodigal son was one of his sons. Servants were who? The son was willing to be one of them. What of the other men in the story? Who were they? Random men, hired servants, sons, animals... you've got a lot of symbols to figure out, don't you? What about the fatted calf? It was raised and fatted, killed, consumed, and was no more. Gone. Bye-bye. What is that symbolic of? What is its importance? I understand that you're reading the Adam and Eve story as nothing but literal. No symbolism at all. Nothing to learn here. Just a historical record. Then why read it? What do we gain from it? What lesson is there if it is nothing more than a literal recitation of history? Satan bad. God good. Adam and Eve sinned. They were punished. Woo-hoo. OK. Very inspiring. Very edifying. Really educational. Thanks for that. Moving on. No, when reading anything (whether parables, or literal histories) there are lessons. How often does the Lord use parables, analogies, symbols? How about all the time? But interpreting such can be done by individuals and they ALL get different ideas for the interpretation thereof. How do you know yours is right? I can read the same passage in the Bible -- the exact same words -- and I'll get a different interpretation than you. What is your justification for believing you're right?

Comparison between Obama/Biden response to H1N1 to Trump on COVID https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-obama-biden-virus-response-11597966209 It is important to remember that the early predictions said that if we're lucky, the best case scenario would be about 200,000 deaths by this fall. Well, here we are at just a bit over, and we're seeing the death percentages going down. Hospitalizations are down. And yet the media still wants to spin this as a failure by Trump. Yup, it's all his fault that we were very close to the "best case scenario." Thank you, Mr. President.

This was really my primary point to my friend. Of the stuff that we can supposedly depend on in this apocryphal prophecy, what is different than we already know from confirmed prophecies? His answer eventually was: We're going to be attacked by Russia. I took that to mean unprovoked. I don't see that happening anytime soon. But even if it did, what good will it do for us to know that? What can we change? What can we do to prepare that would be different than anything else?

I misread "browser" as "power". Yes, I've got INTERNET POWER!!! Call me Webman! No, not Spiderman. Webman. No, I can't crawl walls, I crawl the web. No, wrong web... nevermind.

Now the Dems are saying that the email evidence alongside witness testimony against Biden is a sign that Guliani is a Russian Asset. Aside from the almost pathological disregard for facts, since when have the Republicans been the side that cozies up to the Russians and the Democrats want to portray communism as evil?

I guess I should have said "Real Life wife upon which the story was based."