JohnsonJones

Thanks for the update. Some interesting quotes found. and then there's this... however that appears to be actually a quote from here... By common consent website thoughts about ensign peak Which does not seem to be credited as much (though linked to and talked about, the article is almost lifted wholesale from it). I found it by following links and sources of the article in the SLT. I don't know much about the website itself, but I did read the origin article. It has the more relevant information on this to me in this quote from the common consent website...

There has been speculation on money that really is only tentatively based on real world goods and instead is basically only found electronically or via statements. In otherwords, money that does not exist FAR exceeds actual resources that money is based upon. It would be a dark day if/when the imaginary money falls in regards to real hard assets, at which point I'd imagine the collapse would be far greater than even the great depression.

I agree, but that opportunity may have already passed them by. I see so many of them acquiescing to the secularist ideas rather than stand against them that at this point there is very little difference between the secular world and some of the Christian religions other than that the Christian religions say they believe in the Lord, though they will also disavow the Bible, the New Testament, and call them myths and fables rather than actual scripture. Still, if we all stood together today, I would say that we would probably be a nations (in the West, meaning North America and Western Europe) closer in our adherence to morality than we currently are.

I'm sick and tired of it and I'm not even British!!! If people feel similar to that, they just want for it to finally be resolved rather than dragging it out for longer and longer periods.

I actually stink with Taxes and use an accountant to do my taxes (among other things) for me. My uneducated guess is that while a entity they use for finances MIGHT (emphasis on MIGHT) have done things that are not what they are supposed to do, the church itself will not be in trouble. Many churches in their non-profit arms have similar expenditures and at least one (I think) is wealthier than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Catholic Church). If they go after the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints too far, it could set a dangerous precedent that could affect OTHER churches and bring into question the relative involvement regarding the Freedom of Religion and such. But, in truth, regarding tax law, I'm definitely not the guy to ask. More of a History Professor and all that. Now, if it comes to my specific field of History...I'm a whizz...beyond that...I'm an amateur historian just like everyone else! (or at least those who are interested in it like I am).

John McCain was obviously so influenced by the Media along with his daughter that they felt similarly to me...apparently. Trump said many of these things in speeches for the entire world to see, and see them in context of what he was saying. There is no need for the media to color that when we can see it for ourselves.

Well, I dislike Trump (as a politician) because of what he said about the disabled, about veterans, about women, and his general antics overall. I don't credit media with that, but Trump's own actions.

Part of this would have easily been resolved with transparency of their finances. If there actually is a problem (no idea if there is or isn't) then instead of it compounding itself over the years, someone in the IRS or otherwise could have caught it and the problem corrected promptly instead of accuring interest as it were...IF there is a problem at all. They don't have open books, and I think that's their right. I see this being a complaint from an angry individual who either a. Wants to force the Church to open it's books in regards to it's finances... b. Wants to hurt the church c. Wants to get a big windfall of money or a combination of any of the above. That said, as it seems to be legally done in complaint, it needs to be investigated. It could be that shady things have happened. That tends to be what many assume when non-profits do not have transparency in regards to their financials...or even for-profits or even famous individuals (for example...Trump). I don't expect it will turn up anything against the Church (personal thoughts on the matter) but it might against Ensign Peak. I do find that 7 billion in tithing receipts fits with what I figured the Church probably got currently in tithing, though whether it is just his hearsay or actual I don't know. It appears that Quinn thought it would be more but 7 Billion sounds more accurate to me. 100 Billion in holdings seems reasonable, though would not be surprised if the actual amounts the Church has is even more than that. However, what the church receives in tithing is for the support of the church, it's foundation and building up of it. Tithing is not really meant for humanitarian purposes...though it can be spent on that.

There are many that feel that the General Authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are trying to do just this, or have this as an end result. They want to mesh more directly in with Christianity. At the same time, they seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be accepted as Christians by the community at large, but also be separate. Personally speaking, I think ALL Christians should accept ALL OTHER Christians as such. The Lord never said that we should be separate and argue amongst ourselves who was right or wrong and judge each other on who would go the heaven or hell, but that we should be one or united. I think the Christian way is to accept those who claim to be Christian as Christian. Rather than hate filled speeches to decry other religions, we should point out how others are trying to follow the Lord as per their best understanding in the Bible. To me, a great signal of a gospel preacher to avoid is where they try to take up the mantle of judgment from the Lord and usurp his power by judging others by proclaiming other fellow Christians as non-Christian or not following the Lord. They put themselves over the Lord in ability to judge and make judgments, rather than leave it up to Lord and do as he said (we are not to judge for that same judgment we pass we too will be judged, and we are to love our neighbors as ourselves). In short, I'd find it acceptable if they did that, but would hope that they would do that with ANY Christian rather than say this person is or is not Christian. Every religion and church has it's own peculiar beliefs to it, and they still hold them independently in many ways. The hardcores of those churches will cling to these specific ideas while those who are not so hardcore to these doctrines will many times float around from church to church as specific doctrines are not as big of a deal to them (For example, the ideas of the Baptists who do not feel works are necessary at all and the Bible is the origin of all faith and also believe if baptism does occur it is by immersion, to the Methodist who feel tradition and the bible are more of that same backing and that baptism is necessary to show faith as well as it is acceptable to sprinkle in baptism rather than just immersion). I feel if one claims to be Christian and are trying to follow the teachings of our Lord from the Bible, they should be considered Christian, regardless of what the myriad differences between us or them or others are.

The thing to keep in mind is that MOST of the ideas that are prevalent today really have no basis in fact, but instead are complete guesses. The best laid idea is from the statement that Nephi states that he went East in their journey over several years. Some take it that this means they went into Saudi Arabia in a few months got to the South End of Arabia (regardless that this is a VERY long distance) and then took 8 years to travel less than half that distance after that (which beggers the imagination, much less many questions). I posit that they went in a South Easterly direction as Nephi States, but figure it was more realistic to the travels of the day and time, traveling from Jerusalem to the northern borders of the Red Sea, and from there due east which would have taken them across Asia. The problem with the former theory is that there are no routes from the South Eastern tip of Saudi Arabia to the Americas. It is, as you point out, not likely, but MORE likely that they sail around the tip of Africa and go Westward than it is that they could actually make it heading Eastward across the seas from there. The Winds AND currents are against them. If they left from the most Eastern part of Asia, or parts of the Eastern Coast of Asia it is probable they could have made it. On the otherhand, ALL of these are just speculations with no evidence or even ideas that they occurred. We have no idea where they actually travelled or went. Joseph Smith is said to have inferred they went via Saudi Arabia but I have not read the actual sources that are traceable back to him on this. This same idea is also true for the Central America Theories that place the Nephite and Lamanite civilizations in the Yucatan or anywhere else in that area. There is actually no evidence of this and the evidence we have found there actually points to civilizations that really do not line up with what the Book of Mormon talks about. Everything is twisted out of what it actually shows to try to make things match up for Book of Mormon scholars who try to place the Book of Mormon in that small geographic region. Basically, it is a complete guess out of nothing. An individual many years ago (that some feel has actually been discredited with their original theories) felt that this was so and went on expeditions to try to prove it. No actual evidence of a Nephite or Lamanite civilization that is peer approved or accepted by a Non-LDS scholarly community exists. The Heartland map you see above is based a LITTLE on some facts, but not many. More than the Central America Model at least. These are NOT archealogical or physical evidence, but evidence from hearsay...or rather what someone said rather than any other actual evidence. This person who said this was Joseph Smith, though that is not acceptable evidence for the Non-LDS scholarly community. Joseph DID talk about the Hill Cumorah. We know, we know where it is. He also talked about Zarahemla and it's location. He even said where it was, which is why the map probably shows it's proximity to Nauvoo. These two items do not correlate with the Central American model and why the Central American theorist thus have to basically claim that there were two Hill Cumorahs (and unless they ignore Joseph Smith...two Zarahemlas as well). Now, Joseph ALSO referred to the land they currently were at throughout Illinois and Ohio that it was the land that the Nephites and Lamanites occupied when they were alive and that they inhabited the entire continent/land (one could take that to mean North and South America, or could just mean North America, or perhaps just the land in the area where the Saints were currently occupying...he wasn't clear). All those statements do not seem to correlate with the Central American theory regarding where the Nephites and Lamanites lived and dwelt. The heartland model you see in the map above may also not be all that satisfying. Historically, it also does not seem to correlate with Book of Mormon Peoples...but I find it more acceptable than the Central American theory speaking personally. In truth, we do not have any real evidence of where they lived or dwelt. Anything and everything is pure speculation. Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the Book of Mormon Geography that people use in references to try to figure out similarities between the Americas and the Nephite Civilization comes from BEFORE the great changes prior to the Lord's coming to America. Right before he came the entire landscape was changed to a degree that one could claim it became unrecognizeable. Moutains were raised where there were none while Mountains that existed were tossed down. Waters came in to cover lands while lands were raised up where none were before. In truth, the only real basis we can really look to is the Book of Mormon (the actual book in the Book of Mormon which is called Mormon) for any real relation to what the geography may have been after that, and there is very little to go off of in that regard).

I think it would be similar to Wirbel Or Whirl, except his is more like in a Black Hole singularity wormhole type idea. So a Wurmloch. So, in German you could use it as an abbreviation of Wirb (though it wouldn't mean recruit, just a shortened form of Wirbel) or Wurm (though it isn't like the Wurm, just a shortened version of Wurmloch). I better translation may be similar to loch...though still not an exact translation of his nickname.

I believe it is of a Vortex. His username is Vort...which could in theory be one of the shortened forms of Vortex.

Maybe, but the optimist in me still likes to think the middle is what determines the election.

Well, we'll see if something similar occurs in the US. I fully expect the Senate will NOT impeach Trump, and thus the impeachment that looks likely to come from the House will be a useless gesture. With the Democrat platform swinging so far to the Left and their focus on impeachment rather than Democratic ideals, if Trump somehow wins this next election, I expect it will be due to those two reasons. They have squandered an excellent opportunity to get ahead by instead making a useless impeachment proceeding that will go nowhere. If Trump wins in the next presidential election it would be just as resounding a defeat (even if it's only a slight defeat, Trump winning after the House impeachment would be a direct referendum in action upon their impeachment and how it truly was accepted) to the Democrats as Boris has been to his political foes in the British election. It's a shame. Trump offered the perfect opportunity for the Democrats to get united and get their act together. If he does win, hopefully it will send a clear signal that they need to finally start listening to those of us that are in the middle (not far left or far right) and get their act together rather than acting like a bunch of loons. On the otherhand if they win, I expect the same lunacy that has happened under Trump to continue with them, just in the opposite direction.

Very similar to this, but for my perspective, I'd say these kids are those that are leaving home and going to college. I still knew how my kids would do in college in general and what many of their choices would be. My knowledge of this didn't abridge their freedom at all (and in fact, I couldn't have interfered even if I wanted to at that point for the most part). It was time for them to make their own decisions and decide for themselves what they would be and what they would do with the rest of their lives. Most of what they chose did not surprise me and was already expected by me. There were a few surprises, but then, I'm a mere mortal while the Father is not. I would also think that there are some things we blame the Father for which are not actually due to him. We forget that we are in the middle of an active war. The War in Heaven did not stop and is still ongoing. Our enemy is still out there and greatly desires to either tempt us away from salvation and exaltation, or if that proves impossible, to make us as miserable as himself. I sometimes wonder if some of the terrible things that happen in this life are due to his meddling more than anything else. Still, as he is ALSO a child and creation of our Father, he, just as we do, has a measure of forbearance until the day of judgment. Thus, he is allowed to do these things currently, until the day of his judgment comes. Thus, just as our kids at the university or leaving home also have those that tempt them among their peers, so we do. Just as they have obstacles tossed up against them by others, so we do also do. That does not mean our Father does not love us, but this is a necessary step for us to learn to be able to govern ourselves as adults later on.