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laronius last won the day on July 20

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About laronius

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  1. laronius

    The Purpose of Life: To Learn to Love

    There's no attempt on my part to argue against the essential aspect of love in the plan of our Heavenly Father. I agree with you wholeheartedly when you speak of it's motivational role in everything we do in the gospel. My point is that our joy is what God ultimately wants for us. That's the bottom line of everything He does, our happiness. If something leads to our eternal happiness then he commands it of us. If love did not lead to eternal happiness it would have never even been a commandment. So that is why I speak of joy as being the ultimate purpose. Now if you want to approach the discussion from the standpoint of which godly attributes will ultimately result in our greatest happiness and call the development of that attribute the purpose of life then I'm cool with that. Though in answer to your question I believe that Adam definitely had more than just his own happiness in mind when he/they fell. Love may have been the motivation but it was ours and their happiness that was the ultimate goal.
  2. laronius

    The Purpose of Life: To Learn to Love

    Exactly. We love because it makes us happy. 😐+πŸ’“=πŸ˜€ (See how happy Mr Emoji is) Is love vital in this formula? YES! But it is not the ultimate goal. Happiness is. If 😐+πŸ’“=😐 then what would love's purpose be? It probably wouldn't even be a commandment. (Mr Emoji is thinking right now he might as well believe all those bar commercials he sees 😐+🍺=πŸ˜€ only to discover 😐+🍺=😑 because Mr Emoji is not a funny drunk he's an angry drunk) In the "plan of happiness" the fruit on the tree of life brings happiness/joy and that is what everyone on the straight and narrow path is seeking. Love may be the vehicle that gets us there but happiness is the destination and the reason we agreed to the road trip called life in the first place. (Thankfully Mr Emoji knows that 😐+🍺+πŸš™=😡. Instead he's blazing down the highway of life in his Lamborghini of Love with the stereo blaring If you're happy and you know it πŸ‘πŸ‘, πŸ˜€)
  3. laronius

    The Purpose of Life: To Learn to Love

    To quote Joseph Smith: "Happiness is the object and design of our existence..." To quote Lehi: "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy." To quote Guide to the Scriptures: "The purpose of mortal life is for all people to have joy." Love is a divine attribute, incredibly important to be sure. But we do not develop divine attributes for the sake of having divine attributes. We do so because they allow us to experience a greater fullness of joy. It is the same with physical bodies. D&C 93:33-34 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy; And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy. So if we want to narrow the purpose of life to a single reason it would be our happiness/joy, making everything else only a means to this end, including love.
  4. laronius

    The Purpose of Life: To Learn to Love

    If this were the case then introverts like me are doomed to outer darkness. πŸ˜ƒ I don't know if I would say learning to love is the one sole purpose of life. There are things like gaining bodies and learning to master them. But love surely does encompass a great deal of our purpose here including the motivation behind our obedience to all of the commandments so in that respect I think you have a good case to make.
  5. I don't think God can or at least is willing to change a person's heart. That would severely encroach upon a person's agency. What he can and does do is entice them to have a change of heart. This not only does not encroach upon a person's agency but makes agency possible. 2 Nephi 2:16 Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other. I think often these enticements come in the form of experiences that help us see more clearly what he is offering and then leaving it up to that person to choose to accept or reject it.
  6. laronius

    Discovering the teachings on the plates

    A person's lineage is only partly biologically based. The other part has to do with a person's mission in this life and perhaps into the next. Since we are genetically descended from many people it is very possible to be descended from multiple tribes of Israel. When this is the case our official lineage as stated in our patriarchal blessing is based on what role God wants us to fill. This will determine which of the tribes we are officially a part of. Of course there is still much we don't yet know about what our tribal lineage entails. Make that question #862 when I die. πŸ˜‰
  7. laronius


    That's a good analogy. I was actually thinking of a similar one this week. We often hear about the need to feast upon the words of Christ and how we should approach it as a grand buffet and not just pick at it. When reading about Enos' experience when his father's words sunk deep into his heart he said his soul hungered and I got to thinking about why our souls don't always hunger for the gospel. This got me to thinking about how the world is constantly offering us empty calories in the form of "candy and other junk foods" that simultaneously ruins our appetite and health at the same time. It's almost like Heavenly Father put us in a world designed to teach us things. πŸ€”
  8. laronius

    Endure to the end

    That thought does sound gloomy indeed. But I don't think that will be the case. D&C 121:29 All thrones and dominions, principalities and powers, shall be revealed and set forth upon all who have endured valiantly for the gospel of Jesus Christ... 32 According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest. I think most of what we view as having to be endured is tied to this mortal and fallen existence and is geared towards producing a specific result, namely an exalted being. Once exalted there will still always be work to do but I think the struggle part goes away. Can we rightfully say that God struggles in his work? I don't think we can because he has all power and knowledge and though he still feels sorrow because of some of his children what he doesn't feel is doubt, fear, despair, insecure, unsure, worried, fretful, impatient, tired, or any of the other negative things we deal with while enduring. He knows, always, what needs to be done and he is able, always, to do it. A far different experience from ours in this life.
  9. In my mind I always interpreted that question as referring to the idea that active gospel living will not allow impurities to remain long in our lives. But as I read the full verse for context I wonder if the Lord is speaking of something else entirely. Any thoughts? D&C 121:33 How long can rolling waters remain impure? What power shall stay the heavens? As well might man stretch forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course, or to turn it up stream, as to hinder the Almighty from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latter-day Saints.
  10. laronius

    Endure to the end

    The command to endure to the end is specifically tied in the scriptures to being saved and as such is referring to this mortal probation: 2 Nephi 33:9 ...enter into the narrow gate, and walk in the strait path which leads to life, and continue in the path until the end of the day of probation. But in a more general sense, as @mikbone implies in his post, there really is no end to the need to lead a godly existence. But once a person is exalted how much "enduring" is really required? When Satan is locked away and the natural man is brought into complete submission to the spirit (if the natural man even exists anymore) and the temporal challenges of this life are behind us what is there left to endure? Yes the choice to do or not do good will always exist but if there is nothing enticing me or pressuring me to choose the bad I don't know if I would label that as enduring.
  11. I think what we call perspective is really just seeing through the glass darkly in that we only see part of the picture whereas God sees the whole thing. The part that I see is a product of my life experience which is never going to be exactly the same as anyone else. But the more we learn and experience the greater and more inclusive our perspective becomes until we see as God sees. Kind of like listening to the same general conference talk and coming away with differing and yet still correct understandings of what was taught. One day we will comprehend it all fully but for now God shows us that which is most relevant for us individually.
  12. This is my point. Does this "huge difference" increase the quality of life or provide some actual benefit for the patient even one iota? If so then I agree it should be done and I would do so myself. If not then what difference, huge or otherwise, has been accomplished? When I say acceptable I am not talking about substandard. And maybe it's just a difference in how we define the term.
  13. Maybe it's just me but I really don't like doing things for the sake of doing things. When I reach the point where no additional benefit is achieved other than just because I could do it better I lose all motivation. If the piece that goes underneath is sufficient to do the job I would much rather move on to something that isn't sufficient for what's needed.
  14. laronius

    Blessing of β€œrelease”?

    I don't know that I believe in an actual blessing of release as an authoritative act. I think at the point where a release is the Lord's will it may be manifest to loved ones but the blessing is more for the benefit of everyone else and so "releasing" an individual is more of a letting go by the loved ones. It does seem like I remember a quote about people having to suffer longer than need be because everyone keeps praying for them to not die but I could be wrong.
  15. laronius

    Efficiency is good, but not at Church?

    At some point the church stopped receiving tithing in kind. If that wasn't for efficiency's sake I don't know what it was.