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estradling75 last won the day on July 26

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About estradling75

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    My own spin on the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ

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  1. estradling75


    Socialism and Capitalism both fundamentally suffer from the exact same problem. The problem is Human Nature. More explicitly as the collected human wisdom has declared "Power Corrupts" Or has the Lord has declared in his holy word "Unrighteous Dominion" Socialism defenders are more than happy to point out the power corruption that happens in capitalism. They will point out to anyone and everyone that will listen how those that get rich tend to leverage their wealth, power, and influence to get more wealth, power, and influence. And they are not wrong. But their solution does not solve anything, it simply shuffles the players. Socialism requires larger centralized powerful organizations to work at all. (aka government) This is subject to corruption from the beginning. The real difference is that with Capitalism you have to have a proven track record of being effective and efficient in the large players because that is how they got there. And they have to stay that way or someone comes along and does things better and takes their power away. Government organizations are more known for their ineffectiveness and inefficiencies and once setup pretty much require a revolution to change. So Socialism effectively takes the worst parts of Capitalism... dials them to an 11 and declares, "It is better" and hopes you are foolish enough to believe it. Case in point. Currently the USA is having a "Black Lives Matter" movement and "Defund the Police" movement. Both these movements point to Police Corruption as their driving motivation. Police are a larger organization with power, so while there are many honorable and good police officers the organization itself is just as vulnerable to the corruption of power as any Capitalist (or other) powerful Organizations. The possibility of a corrupt police force is not something that came out of nowhere or caught us by surprise. We knew about it, that is why we have checks and balances. Things like the judicial branch of government with judges and attorneys, things like other parts of the executive branch like Governors, Mayors, Attorney General's etc. And that is just some of the things. But the biggest check is that for most people they do not actually have any encounter with a law enforcement officer (Corrupt or not Corrupt) And yet we still have issues. And Socialist want to add Healthcare into that?!?! I have orders of magnitude more contact with Healthcare providers then I do with Law Enforcement Providers. Healthcare is way more massive and deals with way more money then the Police ever will. That is just asking for a "Black Health Matters" movement and a "Defund Healthcare" movement. I say this with certainty because human nature is not changed. It might start off good, but "Power will inevitably corrupt" and the checks and balances for the system if there are any (which No Socialist will talk about) will not be much better then what we currently can do. Another saying of collected Human wisdom is "The Road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions" and that is all that Socialist have. Paver Stones to Hell. They talk a good talk, they "mean well" but the fruit of their tree is quickly shown to be corrupt and evil. And By their fruits you shall know them.
  2. estradling75

    The Plan of Salvation

    For as much as we know about the pre-existence there is more we do not know. Many of your question about exact details we do not know. However lets clarify come misunderstandings you do have. I make all kinds of plans... and I usually find out very quickly that they will not work. While we are commonly told that Satan had a plan.. everything we seen and learn at are taught tells us his plan would not work. Thus Satan has a plan but there is every indication that his "promises" were lies. For those that followed him everything points to them having full Light and Truth and choosing to embrace and side with Darkness and Lies. Why does anyone one do that?.. I have no idea but people do all the time. Finally angels are not a different type or class in the Restored Gospel theology. They are simply people like us but in a Pre-Mortal or Post Mortal state, who have an assignment to do something among mortals.
  3. estradling75

    Stopping COVID

    Because Conservatives (In the small government sense) are a direct threat to their getting and keeping power. The axiom is Power Corrupts therefore it should be no surprise that that government has a broad streak of corruption in it. Because of this we quickly see that politicians can not let a crisis go to waste. Does not matter what the crisis is... medical, guns, racism, sexism, whatever. They will promise to "DO SOMETHING" and they do. They grab power and defect from their own crimes. Case in point, how long has the government been "DOING SOMETHING" about poverty, racism, sexism,, immigration, whatever... and it does not get any better. But when Conservatives point out that this Emperor has no clothes... we get attacked. We get called racist, we get called sexist, we get called uncaring about people dying and even UnChrist-like... all because we see the honey trap for what it is an try to get others to see it as well.
  4. estradling75

    Reverse Boycott

    In physics we learn that it requires effort to create and maintain a vacuum. If you do not put forth the effort to maintain it, it will quickly become corrupted by whatever it can pull in. It seems in that psychology we have something similar. Ask anyone trying to break a habit or addiction if they just stop they create a type of "vacuum" that makes it very very hard to break free. They almost always have to substitute something else in. It seem that boycotts that are a simple "stop doing something" fall into this "vacuum" category. Therefore they do not last unless they are very well organized and can maintain the effort or they switch something else in. Boycotts against things like Goya, Target or Nike, if they are not part of your life then you have already boycotted them, if they are then to start boycotting them you really have to replace them. Stopping would only last as long as an individual's will power. Which is why I think the more effective ways do not appear to be ones that ask/tell/demand that we stop, but rather ones that redirect and replace.
  5. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    Wow the lack of self awareness is strong in this one. You come and accuse us of supporting Tyranny and being ok with what happened... When it is quite plain to anyone with a lukewarm IQ and a sense of honesty that we were advocating nothing of the sort. When you get called out on it you neither apologize or make your case. You throw a hissy fit. When your words get thrown back your face, you demand that we do what you are clearly unwilling to do. You are unwilling to make your case (of us being supporters of Tyranny and being ok with it), but demand that others do, you are unwilling to apologize but get down right snarky if some one else does not. And you attack anyone that does not get what you really meant, but make no effort to understand others really mean.
  6. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    Ok You did right here. No respect for due process or those running the investigation Grunt wants him in jail now based on what he understand the evidence to be. Please note Grunt did not say "this is an example of why I want the existing laws to be changed" Again it was Also please note I have answered the challenge wereas Grunt has not, nor has he spelled apologized correctly either (and the challenge to him was issued first) I can take what I am dishing out. Does not appear that he can.
  7. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    Nope I did not.. I do not apologize for standing up to those advocating vigilantism instead of justice when the system is working. The wrong has been righted, and the perpetrator, is being investigated and dealt with by the systems set in place to handle them. And there is redundancy in those system, including the victim suing. Those that are trotting this out example of a failed system are to busy being blinded by their own self interest and hobby horses to recognize truth. And that truth is as of what we know right now this is an perfect example of the system working, and self correcting when something goes wrong. The only thing better then that would be a perfect system where nothing goes wrong... and as long as we have imperfect people we can never have a perfect system.
  8. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    Indeed. I see no one willing to sacrifice liberty. I do see many who value it so much that we are happy that it is being protected at a systematic level. In this case someone liberty was violated and the system stepped in and corrected. And it corrected it so quickly for the individual that we didn't even know we need to break our our V for vendetta masks or Punisher gear, before he was freed. Realistically the only way it could go better, would be to change human nature... And we as a church are working on that.
  9. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    When one demands justice without due process it is known as vigilantism. (Which howling for blood is). A cop has special powers as part of a due process investigation. Thus is not a vigilante when performing his or her duties. A cop accused of violating the trust place in them is a horrible thing, but they are also entitled to due process and not being subject to vigilantism. The claims made in the news articles and video is not due process. In as much as they represent facts they are evidence, which is gathered as a part of due process. Now the department investigation is due process and their findings are not vigilantism. Now you have taken the departments statement as a result of due process. If this is true (which it possibly is) then you need to accept the full statement and not just cherry pick what you want to hear. Yes the statement called it "overreach" which you selectively take out and call for the punishment of the officer. You selectively ignore the corrective actions included in the statement which would be part of the due process finding (assuming it is a due process report). The statement does not list any punishment of the officer but rather corrective actions of for the department. When you are selectively ignoring the facts that do not fit and taking other facts and twisting them out of context to support your prerendered conclusion, that is not due process that is vigilantism and the label fits. It is also possible that the department statement is not a due process statement but a PR piece in which case its not really relevant at all. And then there is the possibility of the families lawsuit which would trigger yet another investigative look.. This one being independent of the department and that would also fit as being due process. The simple fact is that the consequence of the officers actions are probably not fully played out yet. The fact that is it still playing out is a positive sign that our system is working flaws and all. One being happy that they system is working, does not equate to one being happy at the event that required the system to work in the first place.
  10. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    I am so tired you deliberately lying, distorting, and twisting my words to to fit your hobby horse. I have never said it was OK ever.. ever... ever... If you truly believe that is what i said then quote it. Otherwise apologize.. because I see no reason to try to discuss things with someone that behaving in such a fundamentally dishonest manner.
  11. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    Your interpretation of their statement is what you think you know. I have provided alternative interpretations. As for the victim being Innocent until Proven Guilty he absolutely is. But that Proven Guilty part has to be allowed to happen too. And police are the ones given power to start that process. This means the police have been granted power related to that investigative process. Now anyone who pays attention to the scriptures know that people are weak, flawed, prone to error and sin. And this investigating power is put into flawed human hands. It is inevitable that mistakes, errors and even abuse of this power will happen. We don't have to like it and we should not like it but until we can change human nature we are stuck with it. So the question becomes how to we correct it? This is an example of one of the quickest corrections I have seen. This is not an example of systemic failure of our law enforcement system. This is a example of our system working as designed to self correct when the expected errors, mistakes and abuses happen.
  12. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    You used a straw man argument though. The idea that everyone just 'knows' the order is wrong.. is nice in theory.. but the reality tends to be less clear on what is really known when. Generally speaking we want cops and soldiers to protect us from the bad guys... Sadly the bad guy the bad guys do not wear black capes, handle bar mustaches, and monologue their criminal plans at the drop of the hat. That means the soldiers need to sometimes act on orders without knowing all the facts and the cops need to investigate (their form of action). All evidence points to the cops investigating (and controlling the situation while they did). Their investigation cleared the man. The fact that the clearing came from the leadership clarification shows that it was not clear to the cops before. Now you can say it should have been clear to the cops before... I will not argue with that point... All I will say such confusion points to leadership failure. And you can say that such marital law type tactic that many places are imposing are wrong.. I will not disagree with that either.. Sadly as the body count starts to rise such positions become the minority. Fair enough. I am going by the mantra of "Innocent until Proven Guilty". Which means that we should not be howling for his blood based on what we 'think' we know. Now when the department investigates and they have the facts and proof. If "overreach" is code for "abused his authority" then the department and whatever oversight organization exist should deal with it as such. If however "overreach" is code for "made a mistake" then the department and whatever oversight organization exist should deal with it as such. (And yes big mistakes can still get you fired or more).
  13. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    So are you telling me that as a Father who has authority over his kids that you never ever even once in the heat of the moment made a judgement call about the punishment of your kids... Only to realize later that you made the wrong call... If so then you are a better father then any other father I have ever heard of (except God). If you have made such a mistake.. then you deserve to be punished exactly the same as you propose for this officer. True but if you are going to use a war analogy use the right one. If a solider kills a child suicide bomber... we recognize it has a hard but necessary choice. If the solider kills what he thinks is a child suicide bomber and it turns out he was mistaken.. we recognize it as a tragedy. and we investigate to find out why the failure happened and try to prevent. COVID -19 is a viral bomb who's carriers are incredibly hard to detect. And police are our soldiers on the front line to try to stop these bombs from getting through (Like the other first responders) He was not a solider purposely disobeying orders (or following orders that are inherently wrong). He is a solider on the front line and in the heat of conflict and in the mist of conflicting commands/demands made the wrong call. A call that was quickly corrected, but a certain amount of harm was already done.
  14. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    If this is truly how he feels and truly what he wants... why punish and individual officer? Punish the leaders.. Punish the department, punish the city/county/state, slap them silly with a lawsuit that will pay for his daughters college. Punishing the guy who appears to have been trying their best to follow conflicting orders... does not deter the leaders from giving conflicting orders. There is a strong case to be made for punishing leaders for their failures in leadership and holding them accountable for the actions of their subordinate. If you want to stop this slippery slope in it tracks, go after the Police Captain, the Police Commissioner, the Mayor, the City Council, and/or the Governor. Because to really work against corruption the least effective thing you can do it hit the ones with their feet on the street.. You need to go after the ones with their butts in a seat.
  15. estradling75

    The COVID thread

    What makes you think anyone here thinks it is 'acceptable?' It happened.. and all the consequences that are coming as a result are showing that it is not considered acceptable.. What more do you want? The cop to be lynched? Sorry but that is not the rule of law and liberty I signed up for. The leaders have rebuked the action and the man who was offended can have redress (if he wants it) That seems like an utterly acceptable response to an unacceptable action