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Anddenex last won the day on December 22 2019

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About Anddenex

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    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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  1. Anddenex

    How do epidemics/pandemics stop?

    Just read an article specifying viruses are more like androids -- I assume if someone is a Stargate fan -- replicators. I have a hard time though accepting this seeing that the moment they come in contact with a living cell they then are able to multiply. They consider them to be in an inactive (no living cell) state or an active (when they come in contact with a living cell) state. I would think this is a typical science fact until further knowledge is obtained.
  2. Yep, I missed who said, "I was just noticing the tag to JohnsonJones, not CV75." I think this is where semantics are going to play in our conversation. To be clear I understand your point. I understand what you are saying. Salvation and Exaltation are synonymous (at their truest definition). So the plan being called The Plan of Salvation is in fact the Plan of Exaltation -- how to live once again with God. If people choose not to, then God has provided means for them to be saved (e.g. receive a Kingdom of glory other than Exaltation).
  3. Anddenex

    How do epidemics/pandemics stop?

  4. Anddenex

    How do epidemics/pandemics stop?

    <sarcasm> Get a doctor, have them come up with a vaccine. Make sure you "force" everyone and title it "herd immunity" so you have something to blame (make fun of or mock) when it doesn't work fully. </sarcasm> Joking/Kidding/Poking aside, the one thing I don't understand about virus' is the inability to kill them like we kill bacteria. You get a virus they say your stuck until it works through you, but some don't work through you. If a virus is a living thing, then it should be able to be killed off like any other living thing. Like when I had every symptom of Strep Throat and went to the doctor and they said, "Nope, not Strep, you have a virus. Sorry, you will have to deal with it until it passes." $200 dollars out of my pocket for no help. How then do you protect against a virus if there is no vaccine? It seems the only thing at this moment is to keep kids and ourselves, fed, strong, vitamins, and hopefully they are less susceptible to the virus. If they are like me with Strep, I used to get Strep all the time. I don't anymore, or I simply don't know I have it. I went to the Doctor once with Strep, by the time they provided us with the diagnosis I had already overcame it. Have good hygiene and hope for the best.
  5. So this is the statement from @JohnsonJones that sparked the response, " the reason I say that the actual Plan is that all of Heavenly Father's children are exalted through the Atonement of Jesus Christ " This would be an accurate statement that "ALL" who are exalted are exalted through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Your statement is accurate also, but isn't what JohnsonJones was specifying, " All of Heavenly Father's children will be saved through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. " Both statements are accurate. I was simply responding to the statement that Salvation does not equal to Exaltation, when in its truest form Salvation does equal Exaltation. Salvation has more than one meaning in scripture and by our prophets. So, when giving a definitive answer pertaining to Salvation it needs to be qualified, because at its truest form Salvation is equal to -- synonymous with -- Exaltation.
  6. In the example I provided yes. In the statement pertaining to exaltation and salvation it is clear exaltation == salvation and salvation == exaltation. So to say Exaltation != Salvation isn't a true statement unless a person qualifies it with the definition they are using for salvation (e.g. using the term salvation simply meaning to be saved as all are saved except the sons of perdition).
  7. I understand what you are saying (which is why I shared what I shared), although, this is what has been taught and is currently taught: What is Salvation? "Salvation is exaltation. That is the sum and substance of the whole matter. Salvation is eternal life." Salvation and Exaltation are synonymous. "Salvation in its true and full meaning is synonymous with exaltation or eternal life and consists in gaining an inheritance in the highest of the three heavens within the celestial kingdom." All one. "Thus, in the full, true, and accurate sense of the word, salvation, eternal life, and exaltation are all one —they mean to go where God is and to be like him!" All Exalted == Salvation (true Salvation, Eternal life) All Saved != Exaltation but can be == Salvation depending on how one is using the term salvation if simply meaning they are saved to a degree of glory (not in outer darkness).
  8. Exaltation does equal Salvation, but Salvation != Exaltation. Someone is able to be saved (salvation) without being exalted, and anyone who is exalted is saved (salvation).
  9. You are not alone with these feelings, and the only way that our hearts are changed is through searching and tasting the fruit of the truth we are looking for (rarely in these cases will someone share something that will enlighten us if we are in a negative state of mind). Here are scriptures to ponder: 1) Matthew 5: 45 - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. This verse of scripture should make it clear why Athiests' at times receive blessings although they do not believe. This is in part why so many Athiests' who mock God will one day see, despite their mocking, how much Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost were in their lives -- also why they will voluntarily bend the knee in worship despite their earthly beliefs. God is and will always show how he practices what he preaches. He blesses those who persecute him (i.e. Hitchens, Dawkins, etc..). This also answers statistically speaking we will all have some fulfilled blessing in our lives. The real question though comes from the next verse of scripture. 2) Doctrine and Covenants 88: 33, "For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift." 3) Others have mentioned the following from the Bible Dictionary, "As soon as we learn the true relationship in which we stand toward God (namely, God is our Father, and we are His children), then at once prayer becomes natural and instinctive on our part (Matt. 7:7–11). Many of the so-called difficulties about prayer arise from forgetting this relationship. Prayer is the act by which the will of the Father and the will of the child are brought into correspondence with each other. The object of prayer is not to change the will of God but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that God is already willing to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them. Blessings require some work or effort on our part before we can obtain them. Prayer is a form of work and is an appointed means for obtaining the highest of all blessings." (emphasis mine) This is one part of the gospel I struggle with. We are told in scripture that if we ask, seek, knock we will eventually receive an answer to our prayers. Exercise faith. Act in faith. God will bless you. Drawing comparisons will make this even harder. If we correlate the verses of scripture it makes it appear that the only answer will be those that align with the will of God. But if we tie other scriptures with this one we will see where the will of God was not accepted, person continued to pray, and the Lord answered their prayer which ultimately resulted in hardship. So, I guess which then do we want more the answered prayer that may result in hardship, or the unanswered prayer (because of our lack of knowledge regarding the purpose of prayer) that causes discomfort also due to our lack of knowledge? 4) Telestial laws/kingdoms will always incur telestial experiences and results. The kingdom we are apart of will cause or allow specific events in our lives. When we as a people (all people) rise above the telestial laws/mind/heart/life we will have different experiences. Until then, we will experience the results of living in a telestial world.
  10. Anddenex

    Progression between kingdoms?

    Irrelevant. We obviously can gnash our teeth here. The scriptures addressed aren't speaking of now, mortality. They were specifically speaking of life after death. I am not sure why you want to wrest that. But that is your choice. Not sure the purpose you have in ignoring the obvious interpretation of these scriptures addressed. We are indeed informed in scripture when and why they are weeping, wailing, and gnashing teeth. If you want to ignore it, again, that is up to you. I can see that you don't want to admit what is overtly addressed in these verses. Again, that is up to you. What happens to people who are in Outer Darkness, what are they doing as defined by scripture. If you are having a hard time, let's read the scriptures again: "therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil." Scripture is clear, specifically detailing weeping, wailing, and gnashing teeth of those who are cast into outer darkness. Again, if you want to ignore that, that is purely your decision. I can't help there.
  11. Anddenex

    Progression between kingdoms?

    Hell is permanent for the sons of perdition. If Hell is permanent for the sons of perdition, then it is easy to also see how Telestial and Terrestrial glories are permanent also. People who are in the Celestial kingdom continue their progression toward perfection through Christ. You understand the difference between a Saint and a Sinner, right? Really, scriptures appear to speak otherwise (should be self-explanatory why restoration entered into this discussion): Alma 41: 2-4 (emphasis mine) 2 I say unto thee, my son, that the plan of restoration is requisite with the justice of God; for it is requisite that all things should be restored to their proper order. Behold, it is requisite and just, according to the power and resurrection of Christ, that the soul of man should be restored to its body, and that every apart of the body should be restored to itself. 3 And it is requisite with the justice of God that men should be judged according to their works; and if their works were good in this life, and the desires of their hearts were good, that they should also, at the last day, be restored unto that which is good. 4 And if their works are evil they shall be restored unto them for evil. Therefore, all things shall be restored to their proper order, every thing to its natural frame—mortality raised to immortality, corruption to incorruption—raised to endless happiness to inherit the kingdom of God, or to endless misery to inherit the kingdom of the devil, the one on one hand, the other on the other Alma 41: 10 (emphasis mine) Do not suppose, because it has been spoken concerning restoration, that ye shall be restored from sin to happiness. Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness. Alma 41: 14-15 (emphasis mine) 14 Therefore, my son, see that you are merciful unto your brethren; deal justly, judge righteously, and do good continually; and if ye do all these things then shall ye receive your reward; yea, ye shall have mercy restored unto you again; ye shall have justice restored unto you again; ye shall have a righteous judgment restored unto you again; and ye shall have good rewarded unto you again. 15 For that which ye do send out shall return unto you again, and be restored; therefore, the word restoration more fully condemneth the sinner, and justifieth him not at all. Helaman 14: 31 (emphasis mine) 31 He hath given unto you that ye might know good from evil, and he hath given unto you that ye might choose life or death; and ye can do good and be restored unto that which is good, or have that which is good restored unto you; or ye can do evil, and have that which is evil restored unto you. These verses of scripture are all about resurrection and after life.
  12. Anddenex

    BOM Study Guide for Non-Mormon

    A professor at BYU has a great Book of Mormon Study Guide -- Largey is the author: @Just_A_Guy seems to have provided the same link.
  13. Anddenex

    Progression between kingdoms?

    Moral agency is scripture and it is the type of agency God gave us, "78 That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given unto him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment." Now it appears we are speaking past each other. I responded to the following statement, "Whether or not I change is entirely up to God." In response to my response you said the following, "Therefore, IMO, it is through God that we are saved and not through any works or merits that we do." "Change" and "we are saved" are two principles/doctrines of the gospel which I responded to in accordance to your response. The second sentence clarifies the confusion. I was simply responding to the idea of change, and how change occurs because we choose to repent and change, and as we choose to repent and change the Lord gives additional strength (grace) to no more desire evil. Alma the Younger is a perfect example, and the angel's words to Alma even more so. If Alma didn't "choose" to stop and change (despite all God did for him), he would never have become a prophet. The law is written in our hearts by our own desires to keep the commandments, or to recognize that if we continue a certain path we will destroy our soul (not live with our Heavenly Father). We do know why we follow the law, at least for those who seek knowledge. Much like Nephi knew why he followed his father and the Lord, and why Laman and Lemuel did not know. I am grateful to hear your testimony of God's love for you and how it changed you. That is wonderful brother! Joseph Fielding Smith has a different interpretation in the Doctrines of Salvation regarding our offspring. He specifies that we may bring our wayward sons and daughters to the Celestial kingdom, but not exaltation. It is an intriguing thought. I am good with truth. If the sons and daughters of God can progress through kingdoms, then there are a lot of scriptures that clearly teach otherwise. Each time I hear someone say otherwise, it seems to me they are really rubber-banding verses of scripture. If we can progress through kingdoms, then the whole concept of procrastinating the days of our repentance is null and void. The only purpose then to these verses would be to "avoid" suffering for ourselves, and if we simply can suffer ourselves and still be with God then why choose to be "exactly" obedient? This brings up the Protestant Christian type of Grace. We can do whatever we want in this life, God will beat us with a few stripes, we are all saved anyways -- even if that means we have to endure a time in hell, Telestial, Terrestrial, the lower degrees of the Celestial kingdom until we once again are with God -- exalted. Why put up with the persecutions of this world, when I can forget Church, forget commandments, live a life of sin and pleasure and still be exalted -- even though I procrastinated the days of my repentance. I agree with choice after death. The relevance was stated above pertaining to the confusion. If God is the only reason, entirely the reason (as you suggested) why we change, why would God say many are called but few are chosen. True, of course we aren't alone. That's what I am referring to. Change is not "entirely" up to God. We must choose ourselves. We may fail, but through the atonement and our choice to accept it we yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and become like God.
  14. Anddenex

    Progression between kingdoms?

    I am pretty sure the verse specifies why they are gnashing their teeth as a result of them being cast into the furnace of fire. We are not in the same furnace of fire now as this verse of scripture is referring to. This verse of scripture is referring to what happens after death, not our lives right now. In this life, yes, we can definitely escape a furnace of fire. We are informed what they are weeping, wailing, and gnashing their teeth for. Other scriptures correlate, are interwoven with these same verses (i.e. Doctrine and Covenants 19) I wouldn't agree with a lot of medieval interpretations. We aren't though reading medieval interpretations, this is modern revelation. Correct, regarding hell. Hell is not permanent except for the sons of perdition (i.e. Satan, Cain), which is why we have Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial states. The concept of "restoration" is what we should think about. We are raised from corruption to incorruption. We are raised to the state by which we will receive according to who we are. The concept of restoration does not mean a person who is of a Telestial countenance will one day be restored to Celestial countenance. That is opposite of the concept of restoration. We will receive what we chose to receive, and no matter how much gnashing of teeth, wailing, weeping isn't going to change our countenance from Telestial to Celestial. Treasure new and old, I don't know. In relation to the other parables given before regarding good vessels and bad vessels is clear. Unless it is saying the same thing as with the fish, then it is more clear. Or the concept of the last shall be first and the first shall be last (new and old). But, I don't know as I haven't had any interpretation from the Spirit and haven't read any interpretation from a prophet. Well, yes, I think that is the point of the verse. If they have rejected the prophets, the Lord's servants, the Lord will cast them out and there will be weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth for those who are cast out. The day of visitation is when the Lord comes again, second coming. So we are indeed given a time. In part, we really don't have to wait until final judgement. Our bodies (resurrected bodies) will already be the glory/countenance of the kingdom we will receive. This is why I love this verse of scripture, "9 The show of their countenance doth witness against them, and doth declare their sin to be even as Sodom, and they cannot hide it. Wo unto their souls, for they have rewarded evil unto themselves!" Even those who died without the gospel, will have a countenance due to their choices in their lives. God, as with the Lamanites, will be merciful. The great thing though, which I am sure you already agree with, is God is truly the only person that knows our countenance and is the only person who would judge properly. Time = our death. At that time, it is already known to God and will be known to ourselves what kingdom we will receive due to our choices, desires of our hearts, and God's foreknowledge if the gospel was ever preached to us.
  15. Anddenex

    Progression between kingdoms?

    Its not a matter of thinking. It is a matter of knowledge. God provided us with "moral agency" and it is through our moral agency that we either choose to accept or reject. You are speaking now of two different principles/doctrines: change and being saved. Change is entirely up to us (i.e repentance) as God isn't going to force any change on us. God has already provided the sacrifice in order for us to be saved, otherwise if it was "entirely" up to God as to whether or not we change we wouldn't have verses of scripture such as these; 27 Wherefore, men are afree according to the bflesh; and call things are dgiven them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to echoose fliberty and eternal glife, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be hmiserable like unto himself. 28 And now, my sons, I would that ye should look to the great aMediator, and hearken unto his great commandments; and be faithful unto his words, and choose eternal life, according to the will of his Holy Spirit; And... 34 Behold, there are many acalled, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen? 35 Because their ahearts are set so much upon the things of this bworld, and caspire to the dhonors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson I wonder if you can see the irony of the connected sentences you provide, "it is through God that we are saved and not through any works or merits that we do. Our job is to accept him, believe and learn and do (but since the doing, we have no choice but to rely on him)" The principle you are teaching leads to the following outcome, If change is "entirely" up to God and there are sons and daughters who are lost and some who are saved, why didn't God then save the others if "change" is entirely up to God? Its God's fault some are not saved because he didn't help them change?