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  1. 12 points
    It will be next year that my wife and I will have been married for twenty years. Hopefully our marriage sealing will be sealed by the Holy Spirit in the next life if we continue faithful to life eternal. We also now have just reached one full gross year of income saved for in our emergency fund and retirement combined. Please share any milestones or goals reached if you wish.
  2. 12 points
    mirkwood

    The Excuse of all Tyrants

    She was arrested for trespassing. The park was closed, she failed to leave. Cities and counties have the authority to close their parks.
  3. 11 points
    This topic can be sensitive, and I was tempted to place in the Christian beliefs forum. However, my sense is that the spiritual struggle that politics sometimes generates affects us all. Here's the story--made vague on purpose. A man seminary-educated (Protestant graduate theology school) in the 1970s becomes ordained in his mainline denomination and pastors a single church for nearly 30 years. As he sees his denomination embrace gay marriage, ordain practicing homosexuals, and now fully embrace transgenderism, he comes to the soul-wrenching decision to leave his denomination--including guiding his church out. He was able to join another denomination, under the same larger umbrella, and today says his former denomination cannot be merely labed liberal--it has become radical, in his view. I read his article and, taken at face value, I agree. In the 1990s, when I was at my much-more-Bible-based denominational seminary I remember classmates saying with a bit of bravado that they were thankful that we would never affirm anti-biblical sexuality. Today we remain nowhere near violating those standards. However, there are some frightfully strong rumblings among our youngest clergy. A few pastors have left us, because they do want to embrace today's cultural norms. In the greater Evangelical world there are several thinkers suggesting a huge divide is coming over support/opposition to POTUS. Apparently many younger believers find it hypocritical and even evil that their elders would turn a blind eye to the shortcomings in order to gain temporary protection and support. "Do we trust God or Caesar?" they ask. If the church is led by prophets, and those prophets remain true, then a few may leave the church, whether to the left or the right. If boundary-protectors force the church to the right, outside of God's directing, then a good number will leave for the left. Those who do so will be younger. On the other hand, if the cultural-accommodaters get ahead of God's directions, many elders may leave in dismay. After some initial growth by excited young people, such a movement would go the way of many in-tune denominations--gradual implosion. I'm an outsider. However, if my counsel is worth anything, I'd urge members to pray for their leaders--especially those they believe to be anointed by God to be prophets. In the mean time, I am praying for my leaders to keep our denomination faithful to God and his Word.
  4. 9 points
    Carborendum

    Carb's Take on Racism

    Based on recent current events and many comments regarding the situation, I'm going to make a statement on racism. It is just my personal observation. It is based on experiences of hundreds of Asian immigrants I've known, across half a dozen states, and just as many foreign countries, over the course of 50 years. But it is just a personal observation. Racism has always been around. It is not unique to the US. In fact, the US is probably among the most racially tolerant nations on earth. Not perfect, obviously, especially considering recent events. But if you honestly believe we're the worst -- or even near the same category as the worst -- you haven't been to other nations where it is literally a problem worth killing for. I have felt it in my life. And I also know it has gotten a lot better over the many years of my life. America is getting better. Other nations aren't. Racism is much worse in less developed countries. In this century (already 20 years old) racism in the US is at least commonly acknowledged as being stupid if not worse. Other nations consider it normal. They say things like, well sure, they're (insert race here). So of course they're (insert racial stereotype or characteristic here). DUH!! And no one calls them out on it. It's the expectation. Mexican kids in school particularly gave me troubles because I was a small kid. As you all know, I usually never back down from a fight--even if I have no hope of winning. I just don't give up that easily. Sometimes I got beat up enough that I had to take a break from standing up for myself. But I eventually did. And quite often, I'd win the fights -- even when they were twice my size. The point being that they picked these fights because I was small -- and because I was a different race than they were. I had Mexican friends who were just as small. But they never got picked on. And they made it very clear to shout racist epithets to ensure I understood their motives. The crazy part was that some of the guys in those groups never participated in the fights. But they did at least participate in part of the taunting and encouraging. When they were by themselves, they behaved like my friends. And I guess I still don't understand that mindset. By the time I got into high school, people behaved better. There were still stereotypes There were still ethnic jokes Not as many epithets. In fact, the last one I heard was in my freshman year at BYU. So, no the Church is not immune. No more fist fights I think I once related the stories of people setting me up with a girl (when I was single, of course) because she was the only Asian girl they knew. And then I ended up marrying a white girl. When I got passed over for picking teams, I understood it was because I was small, not because of my race. One would be a fool to pick me for their basketball team. If you go to Korea or Japan, you'll find two highly developed nations who are also highly racist. But they're equal opportunity haters. They hate anyone who is not their own race (and by race I mean Korean or Japanese respectively). Koreans generally hate Americans -- especially white Americans. They also hate Japanese and Chinese. They really look down on everyone. Japanese are so racist that even if you're speaking perfect Japanese to them, they refuse to speak Japanese back because that would be acknowledging that you're human. They also hate Koreans and Chinese just as much. Sure, businessmen and diplomats know not to bite the hand that feeds them. And shop owners know to greet Americans with a smile and nice tones. But as soon as they're gone, they give out audible sighs and grunts. By contrast, all the Asian immigrants I knew used to just accept America and try to blend in. All the hatred and racism disappears from them. They even forced their children to stop speaking the language of their homeland and learn to be fluent in English. Many of the parents opened up businesses and simply smiled. They did not let out the sighs and grunts. They just ran their businesses and sent their kids to school to secure a better life for them. Asians were told the following: Learn to speak English fluently. Get proper education and training in a field that pays well. If you have these two things, you'll figure out all the rest. It is your drive and your abilities that will get you ahead. Now compare that to Blacks, and Hispanics. What are they taught? If you speak like them, you're a sellout. If you get good grades in school you're a sellout. You can't get ahead because of "da man". Government will figure it all out and save us. How have these philosophies been working? Well, we can see it in the lives of people who do the opposite of the above. Black people who value education, language, and hard work get ahead. Asians who don't, fall into poverty. Muslims (BTW, they don't easily fall into either category across their various national origins) also succeed and fail by these formulae. The startling pattern I've seen is that among the recent Asian immigrants for the past 15 years or so, Asians are buying into the "sellout" philosophy. And more of them are falling into poverty. It will a take another 15 or 20 years for those effects to show up in statistics. But I've seen it happening. Luckily, the successful Asians of previous generations are still valuing these things and teaching them to their children. But this is the "different kind of racism" I experience as an Asian adult.
  5. 9 points
    Vort

    And, the Tyranny continues.

    Every business is essential to the business owner and employees.
  6. 9 points
    Just_A_Guy

    An unfortunate 1950s fundamentalism

    I think there are a variety of things going on here. JFS, JFS-II, and McConkie all had their perceptions of academic scriptural scholarship colored by the fact that the prevailing higher critics of the early 20th century (and on up through the last twenty or thirty years, really) could best be characterized as being positively hostile to the Biblical teachings that McConkie described as the “three pillars of eternity”—the creation, the fall, the atonement. I think Spackman himself has written about how academic Biblical scholarship has only really begun welcoming overt believers, within his lifetime. (It’s one thing to believe Solomon built a temple; another to believe God blessed it with His presence. One thing to acknowledge the possibility that Yeshua-bin-Yusuf really lived and was executed by Romans; another to believe that that death had meaning or was reversed by a resurrection three days later.) The “fundamentalist” Church leaders of the mid-20th century felt that the spiritual costs of allying with the academic community outweighed the benefits—and I believe they were essentially correct, even if they perhaps didn’t quite understand how or why they were correct. Our leaders have made the best sense they could out of the scriptures, using the best tools that they dared to use. In every way that is essential to our salvation, they were right. Certainly, we can be grateful for the deeper textual or historical understandings coming from a new generation of scholars using new tools and pursuing new avenues of inquiry. We can also appreciate the service of the now-departed shepherds who defended their flock from an earlier generation of ravening wolves; and we need not second-guess the shepherds’ techniques just because with the benefit of hindsight the “wolves” have now been largely reduced to paper tigers. The shepherds of 1960 did what was needful then. We look to the shepherds of 2020 to do what is needful now. We should be wary of “fundamentalists” who demand we define our spirituality by the way we garnish the sepulchers of the dead prophets. We should also be deeply suspicious of liberals who resurrect dead prophets only because they want an excuse to crucify them afresh, hoping to create a mob that will bury the living prophets along with the dead.
  7. 9 points
    For some reason, this reminds me of an experience I had 19 years ago. I was the teacher for the gospel doctrine class, where most LDS adults go (went) for Sunday School during the old 3-hour block. On this particular Sunday, we were studying in the Book of Mormon and I was reviewing the story of the Lamanite king Lamoni (more of a regent viceroy, really; he was subservient to his father, who was called "the old king"). By the efforts of the repentant supermissionary (and Nephite prince) Ammon, Lamoni is converted through a mighty experience, bringing his family and most of his household with him into the Church organized by Alma. A bit later, while Lamoni is traveling with Ammon, the two happen across Lamoni's father, the old king. Lamoni's father demands an accounting of what Lamoni has been doing, why he [Lamoni] didn't come to a great feast organized by the old king, and why Lamoni dares to travel openly with a filthy Nephite. Lamoni explains his entire conversion experience, whereupon—to Lamoni's utter shock—his father rejects the story and demands that Lamoni kill Ammon and come back home with the old king. After reviewing this well-known Book of Mormon story, I shook my head and made some comment like, "How did Lamoni think it was going to go? Did he really believe his father was just going to accept what he said?" Whereupon an old friend and class member John explained, "Brother Vort, you grew up in the Church, so you probably don't understand how it is to feel the Spirit and conversion when you've never had it before. Everything fits together and becomes so obvious that you assume anyone else will see it, too. You want to tell everyone this great thing you have found. And it's shocking when you find out that other people reject your testimony and flat out don't believe you." I believe John was right about both aspects. I believe that new converts often experience a great shock when they discover that their heartfelt and seemingly obvious testimony is rejected. I also believe that many lifelong Latter-day Saints, even those who really do have strong testimonies and are themselves deeply converted, may have developed a sort of jaded view that prevents them from understanding the surprise felt by the new converts on coming face-to-face for the first time against a reality that the long-time members have experienced since childhood and take as a matter of course.
  8. 9 points
    Vort

    Health Care Solutions

    I have a close relative who has in the last five years become independently wealthy. We weren't raised that way, but that's his position today. He's a rich man with a poor man's brain. When his wife had a baby two years ago, they found themselves shopping around for a hospital. Since they are uninsured, he planned to pay out of pocket. But he found that when he asked about the cost of procedures (specifically childbirth, but also any and all other medical procedures, including ultrasound procedures and simple checkups), he was invariably met by a fixed gaze and a look of perplexity, followed by, "I have no idea. You'll have to talk to Billing about that." And, by the way, Billing didn't know, either. The amount charged for a routine medical procedure was unknown to any of the people working at the hospital or clinic. Think about that. Can you think of any other business transaction we make where the underlying cost is literally unknown AND UNCARED ABOUT by pretty much everyone who works in that business? This is a primary reason health care in the US is in such abysmal shape. The costs are all hidden, and therefore price gouging is built into the system. People cannot shop around. Competition doesn't exist. Socialized medicine? Hah! It's already perfectly socialized! In the US health care industry, capitalism on the individual level is dead. The solution is not to bury it deeper. The solution is to revive capitalism.
  9. 9 points
    Just_A_Guy

    Pornography Addiction

    Welcome! I think the reality is that sometime, somewhere, there is going to be a relapse. That’s just the reality of porn issues. That does *not* mean he’s a bad guy or that you shouldn’t marry him. Nor does it mean he’s *definitely* going to relapse. But: —You should keep your expectations tempered and consider whether occasional relapses going forward are something you’re willing to deal with; —You should also consider the possibility that statistically, a large number of LDS young men have struggled with this sort of thing; and this young man is at least being forthright about it—which, many others aren’t. Perhaps the issues you know about with him are preferable to the issues some other would-be husband conceals until after the wedding? —You should stay close to the Spirit. Seeking advice is great, but various people are going to have anecdotes that run the whole gamut between “sure, you’ll have a great marriage!” and “run away as fast as you can”. None of us know him. None of us know you. God knows you both. —You shouldn’t let anyone suggest you “owe” anything to this young man, or to anyone else except to yourself and to your God. After marriage you will need to be forgiving and willing to overlook flaws and be self-sacrificing—but before marriage, you get to (and need to) look out for number one.
  10. 8 points
    anatess2

    Update From My Son's Mission

    I just thought I'd share with you what has been going on with my son. I got the privilege of talking to him twice a week for the past 2 weeks because of Mother's Day and my birthday so it was a really happy time for me. Anyway, as of yesterday, he's been in quarantine at the Manila MTC for 52 days. He has one assignment - MTC pianist - and his schedule includes 1 hour of piano practice everyday in addition to the 1 hour of daily devotionals (where he plays accompaniment for the hymns). He also gets 1 hour of MTC class a day and 1 hour of required exercise (or any physical activity). He gets 2 1-hour proselyting sessions a week where he proselytizes over internet to people he knows (mostly people from home or relatives in the Philippines because he was only on the field for 1 day and does not know any investigators from the field yet) as there are a bunch of missionaries stuck in the MTC and only very few devices to go around. Overall, he is doing good physically, mentally, and spiritually. One thing I have noticed though is that he has become weirder and weirder. I mean, he already has his weird tendencies before quarantine but now, even I (who completely gets his weirdness) go "huh?". For example, he has started to refer to his journal as some sentient being - sounds to me like it is female - and is thinking on its own making comments at his journal entries. He writes in several colors and it seems like blue/black are his entries to the journal, green is him talking to himself, and purple is the journal talking back to him. Weird, huh? He also sent a video of him sitting on a chair holding a Filipino fan, fanning himself in time to music. It was quite artistic and something his classmates from his Arts High School would label as deep. But it's just 3 minutes of him moving that fan on tempo which becomes hypnotic after 3 minutes. But what really gets me is his letters. This is where his spiritual thoughts just pour out onto "paper" and I realize... man... this is my son and he sounds as spiritually mature as an apostle. It is when I read his letters that I become anxious that I don't know anything about what will happen after the Manila lockdown is lifted. Will he be sent home or will he remain in the field? Because... he needs to be in on the harvest - people need to hear the gospel from him. Anyway, the Tacloban Mission Area will be released from lockdown on May 15. Manila is on lockdown until May 30. The Church has not issued any instructions to the missionaries in Tacloban to be able to go back to normal - as of today, they are still on self-imposed quarantine past May 15. Patience is a virtue.
  11. 8 points
    Carborendum

    Broken Bow

    A long time ago when I experienced extended unemployment I thought hard on the story of Nephi's broken bow. And I realized that I had been very blessed by the Lord financially. I'd had a good run. It occurred to me that I could bemoan the fact that I had broken my steel bow and murmur all the time, or I could realize that I could make a wooden bow and look for another line of work that didn't pay so well. I made do at the time. For the last few months of not working due to the quarantine, I began pondering that again. But when I looked at the story of the broken bow again in CFM reading for the year, it occurred to me that there was a more spiritual meaning. I was going to find it. What does it take to make a bow? A piece of wood. Not just any wood will do. There have to be certain size and shape requirements with limited tools. I doubt that they had access to high quality glue at the time in the wilderness. So, it had to be one very long fairly straight piece of wood. The wood also has to have strength and stiffness requirements. That was it. Stiffness. Stiff-necked. I tried doing a search for trees and wood from the middle east. There were only two things that kept coming up on Google searches: Cedars of Lebanon and the Dragon Blood Tree of Yemen. I don't know if these two trees were literally available for Nephi to work with. But the words as written in the Book of Mormon are certainly pointing to the symbolism. Cedars of Lebanon were famous throughout scriptures as a symbol of the pride of man. And sure enough, it has the geometry, strength, and stiffness that would serve an archer well. To create that bow, Nephi had to chop down the symbol of pride. He had to humble himself (and later remind his father to humble himself before the Lord). But humility alone was not enough. To have a bow endure extended use, the wood must be treated with oils and/or resins to preserve it. It just so happens that the dragon blood tree is famous for the quality of resin that comes from its sap. But true to its name, what do you think the sap looks like? Could it be that pride, when washed clean in the blood of Christ can save people by spiritually feeding them? Could this be the symbolism of this story behind the broken bow? Truthfully, I don't care if it was intended by Nephi. I do know that this message is true.
  12. 8 points
    Because of your age I feel like the person you need to talk to is your parents and your bishop. Providing advice to a teenager on such a sensitive subject from random people on the internet probably isn't the most appropriate of things.
  13. 8 points
    Gospel Principles or standard works? The answer I am hearing is YES...but in reverse order. Great answer. Obvious...but true. And, yes, for too many Christians of all stripes, there has not been even one reading through the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments. Sadly, some of our compromised mega-pastors are actively advising against much of the Bible as unnecessary. :::sigh::: Keep them ignorant, keep them controlled. I especially like the added counsel to use Gospel Principles, but with actually references to all scriptures listed. Who does that? Very few...but yeah, everyone should. I recall reading a study book from a religion I do not agree with. They made a statement I thought wrong, and in parenthesis it had six biblical references. Most would look at that and be amazed and overwhelmed. They must be right with all that scripture backing them. Alas, I actually read the first two references and realized they had nothing to do with the point made. It's almost as if they simply used a concordance to see if any of the words in their points were also in the Bible, and the listed each verse that contained one of the words. BOTTOM LINE: Want to avoid being a heretic within? Read your faith's scriptures...daily passages and yearly books. Excellent stuff. I believe our elders called this type of thing a spiritual discipline.
  14. 8 points
    My opinion is that our opinions do not matter. The Lord's opinion is the only one that matters. My suggestion is that you find out the Lord's opinion.
  15. 8 points
    A lot of mistakes can be avoided by application of the Chesterton’s Fence scenario. It would be one thing if progressives said “Okay, women want to be in the army/corporate boardroom. Those fields tend to have a ‘locker room’/‘good old boys’ atmosphere, so these are the challenges we can expected and here’s how we’re going to deal with them”. But of course, that’s not what happened—when conservatives raised those concerns and said “look, to make this work you’re going to have to make some structural changes that we aren’t ready for, and people are going to get hurt, and are you sure you’re ready to pay the price here?”; we were told “women are tough, they can do anything a man can do, and corporations/military units won’t see any major change in the way they do their work”. And then, twenty years in, and all of a sudden it’s “holy crap, we have a rape culture and we need to spend millions of dollars to reprogram men and impose promotion quotas!” And we conservatives are just rolling our eyes, like “this surprised you? Really?” Issue after issue is like this—they want to force a minimum wage and then wonder why companies aren’t hiring. They force city centers to accept low-income housing and then complain when the industrious, law-abiding citizens flee to the suburbs. Then the well-to-do come back to the slums and rehabilitate them, and progressives complain about “gentrification”. They want to control prices of medical care and don’t understand why no one wants to be a doctor anymore. They openly mock marriage as a “piece of paper” and a remnant of patriarchal oppression while glorifying extramarital sex, and then demand more money to support single-parents who discover too late that maybe men are more useful to mothers than bicycles are to fishes (and of course, we need counselors for all the delinquents who grow up in those homes). They demand free access to poisonous intoxicating substances, and then shriek about how we need more public spending for addiction rehabilitation services. And frankly, progressives have never had sustainable, consistent, sustainable, applicable idea of what it even means to “get it right” in the first place. The Civil Rights Act was enough—until it wasn’t. Affirmative action in public institutions was enough—until it wasn’t. Hiring quotas in private institutions, we’re now told, will be enough-for now. Oh, and maybe reparations; but naturally we won’t be giving you a number, and when we do, you can rest assured that a later generation will decide that your number was too low, and in fact it was so low that it was an insult constituting a new form of oppression and we’ve got to start again from zero. We saw this with gay rights, too, with breathtaking speed—within a decade we went from “we don’t even want your marriages, we just want to be left alone” (Lawrence) to “you MUST publicly agree that we are doing a good thing are and seal that agreement with your official records and your tax subsidies” (Obergefell)—and plans are in the works to rain hell on the institutional and individual holdouts via the tax code and the schoolhouse and the accreditation bureau and the workplace and the storefront. Either progressives didn’t seriously think through the ramifications of what they wanted, or they just plain lied about what they wanted. The specific examples you cite—slavery/Jim Crow, women’s suffrage, and labor issues, are interesting; because none of them were the result of liberty. They were de jure restrictions on liberty; the result of government attempts to correct for what the prevailing culture might have called ”structural inequalities”—the supposed intellectual/physical/emotional inferiority of blacks and women, and the supposed passivity and ignorance of the laboring class. Jim Crow was a government act. The Civil War was essentially triggered when Dred Scott tried to strong-arm all Americans into accepting slavery as the law of the land. Bans on women voting were also enshrined in law; as were police (and sometimes military) enforcement of restrictions on unions and strikers. The solution to all of those problems was liberty and equal justice under law. Whenever government deviated from those principles to try to make up for historical/natural/economic injustice it inevitably botched the balance, punished a new generation of innocents, and enshrined racial/religious/class/gender-based resentment and animus into the next iteration of American culture. The founders didn’t exalt “liberty” because they were too provincial to figure out how to overcome man’s baser instincts. They exalted liberty because they were philosophers enough to understand that man’s baser instincts don’t tend to change over centuries/millennia; and they were historians enough to understand that any republic that prioritizes some value above liberty itself will beget a government that starts chipping away at liberty, which will beget factions trying to gain control of that government for their own ends, which over the long term can only beget a civil war. That’s the perspective from which Lincoln crafted the Gettysburg address—that the civil war over which he presided had arisen because the nation had failed to live up to its founding principles of liberty and equal treatment under the law.
  16. 8 points
    They aren't performing it as an extension of the State. Just because the State inserted itself in something it shouldn't have doesn't mean it owns that thing. Marriage existed long before the State decided they owned it.
  17. 8 points
    BYU vs Harvard? Easy answer: Return on Investment It's like buying a Ferrari vs a Honda - if your objective is to go from A to B, a Honda will get you there as reliably as a Ferrari and you'll get a lot more for your money. - if your objective is to race from A to B, your Ferrari will get you there faster than a Honda and dig a big hole in your pocket. - if your objective is to get a good education among people of a specific religious practice, your Honda is the best place for that. - if your objective is to show off to or gain erudite fraternity friends, your Ferrari will have the most influential people if you can get them to let you into their club. etc. etc. Before you choose a university - any post high-school education - you first have to know WHY you need college and pick the college that achieves that purpose that provides the biggest return on your investment. A trade school or a direct apprenticeship might just be a better place where you can achieve that purpose.
  18. 8 points
    Just_A_Guy

    LDS Missionary arrested

    If Utah had been a mandatory-clergy-reporter state, this guy would never have come forward at all. As it was, he was able to make a confidential confession to his leadership; and by continual ministry, the Church was able within five months to get this kid into a position where he ultimately came forward of his own accord and, in the presence of his own criminal defense attorney, not only made a full confession but turned the computer over for further analysis. In the meantime, one presumes his bishop was very careful not to put him into a calling that gave him access to children. But for clergy privilege, this guy would have been completely undetected (and his victims wholly unidentified) down to the present moment. Scenarios like this are exactly why many states offer clerical privilege: in the long run, it lets us cast a wider net than we otherwise could; particularly in states where confessional religion is so pervasive. Oh, by the way: the juvie court system deals with literally hundreds of teenaged boys who did everything Alyk did and more. They do their time, and at age 21 they are released—no criminal record, no sex offender registry, nothing to warn the community what they have done and what they are capable of. If we’re going to give a pass to democratic governments whose whole raison d’être is to find predators and remove them from the community, then it’s inconsistent for us to get righteously indignant when a church that openly values repentance, forgiveness, and confidentiality is going to take advantage of perfectly legal processes in furtherance of those values.
  19. 8 points
    In the 1980s liberals and secularists were deathly afraid that Judeo-Christian morality would be forced down their throats by the scary Moral Majority and Christian Coalition. The reality was that most of us believed in free will/agency, and accepted that morality could be embraced or rejected. We heeded the calls for tolerance and plurality. Now we have a Christian high school in Seattle (King's) and a Catholic one in a suburb (Kennedy, Burien, WA) be lambasted by local media for "anti-gay" policies (i.e. millennia of church teaching that is suddenly shocking). So...welcome to the fight for religious liberty. Somehow, I do not expect the secular fundamentalists to be nearly so tolerant and pluralistic as we were.
  20. 8 points
    The problem here IMHO is that so many people are obsessing about what the HCO will let them do, rather than considering what is right and/or what the Lord wants them to do. Gay displays of physical affection are wrong—if not inherently sinful as a per se violation of chastity, than certainly wrong as a colossally reckless step in the direction of unchaste behavior and an insensitive act of toying with and deliberately cultivating human emotions and desires that must at some point be reined in/terminated. This didn’t suddenly change just because some bureaucrats in the HCO manifested their own spinelessness/treachery. BYU and/or the Church condemns a lot of behaviors that many (most?) students participate in anyways. While some gay BYU students may sincerely fear HCO retribution based on past events (and I note that Professor Brau had no problem indulging in a little turnabout when he gloated about the possibility of siccing the HCO on conservative students who admonished gay students for unvirtuous behavior)—I daresay the sticking point for most of these protestors isn’t the threat of administrative retribution. They’re ticked off that BYU is still in the business of making statements about right and wrong, particularly on matters of sexual behavior. They thought they had the camel’s nose well and truly into the tent.
  21. 7 points
    "When you know, you know" is not about the other person. It's about YOU. Attraction is the easy part. CHOOSING TO LOVE is the harder part. And if you think that "you just know" without making a conscious decision on your part to make that covenant then more than likely, you're going to end up divorced in short order when things get rough. "Fall in love" is a stupid phrase, in my opinion. It's like you're walking minding your own business and you tripped and fell in love. That's what happens when your hormones are making the decision for you. So, when do you know? Here's the best way, in my opinion, to find out. When you're ready to CHOOSE the person to spend the rest of your life with so that when somebody cuter and finer and richer and more spiritual than your husband comes to you later asking you to leave your husband and spend the rest of your life with him, you can HONESTLY look him in the eye and say, "I'm sorry Brad Pitt - Nelson, you are a great person and will make some lucky woman happy someday, but I chose to build a family with my husband for the rest of my life so I can't be with you.", then you are ready to marry.
  22. 7 points
    JohnsonJones

    The Excuse of all Tyrants

    Watching the whole video. 1. It appeared the Police officer actually taped off the park. The people didn't know exactly why it was taped off (it was with police tape apparently, it could have been a crime scene for all they knew), they just decided to rip the tape down. They didn't just leave it on the ground though, there seems to have been a statue that they then wrapped the police tape all around. 2. When he came he announced that the park was closed, then people gathered very close to him (not social distancing, less than 2 feet away at some points). 3. He apologized about having to tell people it was closed. 4. He explained that the city closed the park. The city could close the park anytime they wanted, they did not give him a reason why it was closed. He referred them to the Mayor if they had problems. They decided to argue. He said he COULD charge people but did NOT want to. He did not want to issue citations. He said he was frustrated with having to close the park and it did not make sense to him, but the city had ordinances that allowed them to close the park. If they had issues, talk to the Mayor. The City had decided to close the parks and he was to charge people with trespassing if they went in the park. He did not do this and told them he did not want to and offered to let them leave. 5. 3 Minutes prior he told them that he was did not want to charge them with trespassing but this is what he was ordered to do. They could have left at this point but decided to argue the point. He even had another man defending him telling them the virus stayed for up to 72 hours, and then the idiots thought to say that it didn't last on plastic in stores for 72 hours (guess what genius's...it actually DOES last that long on plastic in Walmart. Walmart has been sterilizing at night to try to clean the plastic as best they can as well as any other infected areas (who knows how well or not they are doing so). 6. At a minute and a half to the end of the video he tells them he has asked nicely several times. He is asking them one more time...please go. (note, he was ordered to charge them if they trespassed the City ordinance and DID NOT DO THIS originally. Technically he was already disobeying, but there is the idea of police discretion. He was using his discretion in hopes that people would hopefully be peaceful about it. At this point he has given them several chances. 7. He then detains her after she continues to argue that she should be allowed to stay at the park.
  23. 7 points
    Because what I do is none of your business. Get a JoP to marry you if you don't like my rules. You don't need a church to get married.
  24. 7 points
    mirkwood

    The COVID thread

    You can be briefly detained by police if they have reasonable suspicion that you committed a crime. Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968). Those of you throwing around "innocent until proven guilty" have a flawed understanding of the justice system. Your presumption of innocence is applied in the courts and the prosecutor must provide evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty. You can say what you want about the incident, but at least know your correct terminology and understand the difference between detention, arrest, reasonable suspicion and probable cause.
  25. 7 points
    David Burge (aka “Iowahawk”) has observed that liberals often go through a four-stage process: —Identify a respected institution —Kill it —Gut it —Wear its carcass as a skin suit, while demanding respect. Christianity has been a victim of this process since long before modern political liberalism made its arrival. It got to the where it was “Christians” who tried to steal the gold plates from Joseph Smith, “Christians” who shot little Sardius Smith at point-blank range, “Christians” who gang-raped Eliza Snow and scored of other Mormon women, “Christians” who murdered Joseph Smith, “Christians” who drove the Saints of God out of their country and then turned on each other for a hundred years of unlimited warfare from the Civil War to World War 2 and beyond. “Christians” who have told God to shut up, preferring to worship their biblical exegeses. “Christians” who are increasingly replacing the scriptural Jesus and His law, with a bizarre libertine hybrid of Santa Claus and omnipotent pimp. We looked at the word “Christian”, saw it for the hollowed-out shell that it was, and said “screw that. We don’t want it.” And we went off into the wilderness; and with God’s help we built something new, something blessed, something wonderful—and we acquiesced as the world called that thing “Mormonism”. But the Second Coming draws ever nearer; and it would seem that before the Bridegroom returns—one of His instructions is that the bride to go and get her skin-suit back. So, we will. Nominal “Christians” may consider themselves to be on notice—if they aren’t going to live and love their religion—their true religion; there are yet Saints who will.