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  1. 5 points
    In our ward and stake we actually don't have this problem, but the opposite (at least as far as youth/parents report it to their Bishops). Pre-marital sex is way down amongst heterosexual youth. The only ones that seem to be engaging in sex are those that claim to be gay. Our straight boys have 2 main problems - pornography, and slothfulness. All they do is watch anime and porn, and play video games. Zero ambition to do anything with their lives. The girls have more problems surrounding mental health and abuse of various kinds - depression, anxiety, alcohol, drugs, cutting, etc... Porn use amongst young women is also rising. The number of youth in our stake/area going on dates, and even interacting with the opposite sex, is falling. A counselor in our Stake Presidency is a High School principal, and he has said over the last 5-6 years that attendance at school dances has dropped off significantly. Our priests quorum has 14 relatively active boys, and only 2 of them have ever been on a date. The world is not teaching our youth the proper fundamentals of interacting with the opposite sex...it is teaching the exact opposite of what should be done. Women are taught that men and the patriarchy are dangerous and abusive, and will hold them back; and men are taught that women are a useless waste of time and money.
  2. 4 points
    Not every gay person (adults) in the Church is “struggling” with same sex attraction. They are aware of their feelings and they ACCEPT IT and continue LIVING. It is not a constant battle for many and they don’t want to be seen as addicts “recovering” or “struggling”. In my line of work, I see young men and young women struggling to feel they’re not broken, and seeking (desperately in some instances) the tender love of a mother and father. They long for support from parents and family. Sometimes they do have understanding parents who are cognizant of the difference between loving their child and supporting a lifestyle they don’t believe in. Many parents believe that showing any kind of care or concern for their child is automatically a way to support homosexuality. They use these weapons to manipulate their vulnerable son/daughter. When it doesn’t work out, a few of these parents clearly state that their child is now dead. I see adults as well and many in our Church. The experience is a bit different, they are more grounded and they know where they’re standing. Most of them do want to remain in the Church and they are very much aware that they might not be able to find an eternal companion - but just like Liv, they work every day to be better disciples of Christ. They have callings, they help those in need, they go to the Temple, and they are supported by their leaders. They are in good standing with the Lord and yet… time after time a few people within the Church shows them it is NOT good enough and never will be even if the Almighty God says they can enter His house.
  3. 4 points
    They absolutely exist. I have looked them in the eye on a number of occasions. It absolutely exists. I have looked it in the eye on a number of occasions.
  4. 3 points
    @Vort, should you ever get the chance to ask one of our church leaders these questions, I hope you decide to do so. Then come back and tell us what they say!
  5. 3 points
    1. Good. And of course, heterosexual LDS members have the advantage that there has not been a broadly publicized, well-funded movement with support in academia and the mental health professions that has specifically targeted LDS youth and insisted that heterosexual Church members will never find fulfillment and meaning within the confines of the law of chastity. 2. How is a propensity to any sort of behavior a “choice”? I’ll agree that dispositions or predilections can be reinforced by the consequences of prior behavior—but this is also true to some degree in matters of sexual predisposition; which is one reason that the number of youth identifying as LGBTQ has (IIRC) doubled or tripled over the past fifteen years. (And also why we’ve seen numerous reports of transgender teens who, once removed from their school peer groups due to COVID, decided that they were actually cisgender after all.) Anyone who says “I am this way and I have no need to change, and you need to acknowledge that I have no need to change”, is practically by definition seeking validation. 3. “Brainwashed”? There was something wrong with them (and with all of us). They (and we) want to sin. And . . . is the modern trend of them just committing suicide, supposed to be better than whatever we had decades ago? “Better dead than closeted”—is that the mantra now? And, we’re just going to give a pass to the LGBTQ advocates (and the rest of the proponents of the sexual revolution) who for decades said “your life will never be truly fulfilling or meaningful or worthwhile unless you’re getting laid, when you want, with whoever you want”? We’re going to rewrite history and pretend that LGBTQ advocates were just fine, all along, with the Church’s insistence on celibacy for gay members; and that it was the big bad Mormon Church telling chaste LGBTQ members that they had no place among us? 4. The same as the rest of us. Our hearts. Our desires. 2 Nephi 4:31-32. Mosiah 3:19. Mosiah 5:2. Alma 5:12-14. I don’t deny that, especially in matters of sexual orientation, it can be gut-wrenchingly hard (in some cases, impossible in mortality) to completely get there. But if we don’t want that change, we’re not saints. And I think the Church membership generally is entitled to know that any given nominal member at least wants it—Mosiah 18:10, and all that.
  6. 3 points
    Suzie, I hope what you say is true. But the thing is, for the last thirty years the party line has been that what you describe—a LGBTQ individual finding contented fulfillment in a lifelong commitment to celibacy—is emotionally, psychologically, neurologically, evolutionarily impossible. And a lot of us are kinda wondering why it’s so desperately important for us to know that a person is deeply tempted to commit a sin he has sworn never to commit, unless he indeed characterizes the issue as a “struggle” and wants third parties to support him in that struggle.
  7. 3 points
    My 7 year old daughter is .... well 7 and impatient. She hysterically sobs when we leave Grandma's house like they'll never ever see each other again. I'm sad when we have to leave too, even though I don't sob and understand the bigger picture. I do like being at my folks' house and having them right there in-person. When somebody finishes their mortal journey,. people are sad that they no longer are right there in-person. That's just natural- we like seeing our loved ones and hanging out. Yes, we Saints know that we'll see them again and have that bigger picture, which greatly alleviates the bigger picture sadness. But it doesn't mean we can't also be temporality sad in the moment of loss.
  8. 3 points
    Funerals are not for the dead, but for the living. Though it is but an instant compared to the eternities, as we cannot remember the eternities, it seems an awfully long time for us when we are separated from loved ones by death. We feel grief because we will miss them. They are gone from our lives for the moment, and so most of us (I suppose there are some that can talk to those beyond the grave, such as perhaps the prophet) will not be seeing them for some time. They have gone away for a while and we will no longer see them, and so our grief is because we will miss them in our lives as we know it.
  9. 3 points
    Then conversation is pretty much impossible. You refuse to acknowledge the existence of people of ill intent. You have bought into the idea that no one is really bad, just misguided. Evil doesn't really exist. And no one should ever, ever, ever feel bad about himself, not for any reason. He just murdered his girlfriend and ate her? Just some bad choices. Shame is, by definition, what a healthy person feels when he does something shameful. So unless you're saying that nothing is shameful, your rejection of shame makes no sense. Word games and shifting definitions do not change the reality of things.
  10. 2 points
    JJ, I don't know if you intended this, but the take-away from such an experience is that 1) We all have disabilities of some sort. B) It would probably be better if we all just did our best to deal with it as much as possible. Finally) We should be very discriminating when we decide with whom to share our difficulties. Yet the tone of your post seemed to try to argue that we SHOULD be open with whom we share our difficulties. Did I misread you?
  11. 2 points
    1. I was referring specifically to the parts of your post that I had quoted. I hope many LGBTQ members are enjoying happy, fulfilling lives by seeking to be disciples of Christ and earnestly striving to follow all His commandments, not excluding (and of course, not limited to) the Law of Chastity. 2. The thing is, while I acknowledge that their situations are unique—they are not the only people who struggle with some kind of propensity for sin. What other group of people in the Church who are afflicted with a common weakness, have ever sought validation for the weakness itself and affirmed a hope that the weakness—even if not acted upon—remain a part of their mortal identity? Porn users like myself, don’t. Habitual cussers (also like myself), don’t. Bad spouses and inadequate parents (also like myself), don’t. Drug users, don’t. People who are attracted to children, don’t. Where is the theological or ecclesiastical precedent for this? 3. Yes, but teenagers have walked this road through time immemorial; including in the 1970s and 1980s when Church leaders and institutions were saying and doing some very shocking things. Yet the suicide epidemic came, not in 1975 or 1985; but in the early 2000s as the gay rights movement caught fire. The trauma isn’t in being taught sound doctrine or being held to the behavioral norms that logically flow from that doctrine. The trauma is in the tension between sound doctrine on the one hand, versus distorted definitions of self-worth and self-fulfillment and the meaning of life on the other hand. 4. I didn’t think we needed to debate the question of whether lifelong fulfillment can be found in celibacy, because your last post seemed to acknowledge—indeed, seemed premised upon—the idea that this is something that is indeed happening in the Church on a widespread basis. To the extent that a truly committed, obedient, chaste person finds ostracism in the LDS community upon announcing themselves as LGBTQ and insisting that they have no inclination to have that change—the result, I think, isn’t a factor of cultural homophobia. It’s a factor of the generalized LDS belief that it is both possible and imperative to use the Atonement to at least try to change one’s sinful nature; in conjunction with a sense of bewilderment as to why someone wouldn’t even try to use the Atonement to at least hope for a purification of their nature, while still demanding the privilege of acceptance in a community that is under covenant to do just that.
  12. 2 points
    LDSGator

    US reactions?

    Right. As a child we tend to think there are good and bad choices, and there are. You grow up a lot when you realize that in some circumstances, there are bad, and very bad choices, and you are forced to make one of them.
  13. 2 points
    If the grave has no victory, why is it we are sad when people die? I think the reason(s)varies from person to person. Is it a sign that faith truly is not a knowledge of things? Perhaps; it could be a lack of knowledge. Does it show a lack of belief/faith in the gospel? Not necessarily; we awaken our faculties to draw near to God. Are we actually mourning the fact that we are worse off without them? It depends, everyone is different. Are we mourning because we won't see them for a long while? It depends, everyone is different. Was he weeping because he died, or was he weeping because he saw the sorrow of those close to the death? I believe the latter. Are our spirits just naturally inclined to value life since that is the whole purpose of our existence here? Yes, but that does not necessitate sadness with the passing of a loved one: "The afternoon my mother died, we went to the family home from the hospital. We sat quietly in the darkened living room for a while. Dad excused himself and went to his bedroom. He was gone for a few minutes. When he walked back into the living room, there was a smile on his face. He said that he’d been concerned for Mother. During the time he had gathered her things from her hospital room and thanked the staff for being so kind to her, he thought of her going into the spirit world just minutes after her death. He was afraid she would be lonely if there was no one to meet her. "He had gone to his bedroom to ask his Heavenly Father to have someone greet Mildred, his wife and my mother. He said that he had been told in answer to his prayer that his mother had met his sweetheart. I smiled at that too. Grandma Eyring was not very tall. I had a clear picture of her rushing through the crowd, her short legs moving rapidly on her mission to meet my mother." https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/2003/11/a-matter-of-the-heart?lang=eng So despite there being a deeply rooted belief of an afterlife, our souls cannot help but feel sorrow when there is a loss of life? Not necessarily. Is it possible to experience the death of a close one and feel no sorrow because one's faith in an afterlife is so strong that they know they will see them again? Yes, it is possible. If yes, should we be concerned about the strength of our faith if someone dies and we are sad? I think we should always look for opportunities to increase our faith, and observing (both in the sense of acknowledging and processing instead of denying or repressing) our emotions, in concert with the companionship of the Holy Ghost, is one way to to that.
  14. 2 points
    @scottyg To be fair, as a young man in Catholic school we were lectured to quite frequently that we were sinful, lecherous, lazy, immature...while women were virtuous, mannerly, pure, wonderful...it got old. It also got a little silly, if I’m being honest. We’d make jokes about it, even the girls would. The staff and church leadership at the school was too (Naive? Clueless? Politically correct? Stupid?) to see that girls would tease one another into eating disorders and also pressure the boys for sexual activity. No, I have no idea how LDS teach their kids simply because I’m not a parent. But, if you constantly tell me how bad I am don’t be shocked when I act that way. After all, I’m just doing what you said and what you expect. So....
  15. 2 points
    scottyg

    Celestial Room

    Although this is off topic, I was in a meeting once with the Presiding Bishop of the church. He made the remark that the real reason for 401k/retirement plans being introduced in the world was so that in "retirement" individuals and couples would be able to serve in temples and as missionaries while still relatively young. The Lord was providing His servants with additional opportunities to help each other. Church leaders feel sorrow that so few choose to serve missions in retirement, and instead choose to travel the world, go on cruises, buy new cars for no reason, and waste their wealth in riotous living. So may aspects of our lives are so easy compared to the tens of billions of people who lived on the earth before us, and even billions more currently living on it. How do we choose to thank the Lord for what He has given us? Do we freely give of ourselves, or just build bigger barns?
  16. 2 points
    Gallup Poll - 2/24/21 QUESTION: I know what some Church leaders think, but I wonder what you think... is this self-identification a learned behavior, perpetuated by people trying to 'normalize' it OR is God simply sending more non-heterosexual individuals to earth in these latter generations? SIDE NOTE: Currently Gallup says 1 in 6 adults of Generation Z identify as LGBT now. If it is a learned behavior, what will the percentage be of LGBT for Generation Alpha, Beta, etc. at this pace? If it is a learned behavior, what happens to the LDS % of LGBT every time someone in authority in the Church tries to cast it in a positive light or normalize it?
  17. 2 points
    Why do many parents cry when they send there kids off on mission? Its not like the kids are dying... they are just going away for awhile. Yet we have no problem with that. We don't question its appropriateness. We recognize that change can be hard, and that there is some loss, if only temporary. Death is change... Death is loss, even if only temporary one. Its ok and even acceptable to grieve and mourn when this happens. The fact that we believe in a glorious reunion.. does mean we do not have a loss and its related pain now.
  18. 2 points
    What sin are your referring to? Maybe I missed that part of the speech? All I saw was someone who introduced herself as a YW President, a daughter, a sister, a returned missionary, a person who loves to go to the Temple and a queer. "And above all of this, a daughter of heavenly parents who strives every day to be a disciple of Christ".
  19. 2 points
    I have wondered the same for much of my life. As Colirio quoted: In addition, consider this Joseph Smith quotation given in a BYU Education Week talk that was recently cited by a list member: The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “the Lord in his wisdom had implanted the fear of death in every person that [we] might cling to life and thus accomplish the designs of [our] creator” (quoted by Wilford Woodruff in Diary of Charles Lowell Walker, ed. A. Karl Larson and Katherine Miles Larson [Logan: Utah State University Press, 1980], 1:465–66). In March 1995, then-Elder Nelson published a book, The Gateway We Call Death, that also cited this Joseph Smith quotation. In this book, Elder Nelson also recounted a well-known talk given by Heber C. Kimball, speaking at the death of Jedediah M. Grant: "[Jedediah] saw the righteous gathered together in the spirit world, and there were no wicked spirits among them. He saw his wife; she was the first person that came to him. He saw many that he knew, but did not have conversation with any except his wife Caroline. She came to him, and he said that she looked beautiful and had their little child, that died on the Plains, in her arms, and said, 'Mr. Grant, here is little Margaret; you know that the wolves ate her up, but it did not hurt her; here she is all right.'" To me, it is heartbreaking to think of having to endure such a trial, which I suppose makes the reunion and relief of the atonement of Jesus Christ all the sweeter. But we are beings of feeling; as Father Lehi taught, "Men are, that they might have joy." If we are left bereft, even if only for a relatively short time, it is appropriate that we allow that feeling of mourning to penetrate our souls and soften us. That's about the best I can do to explain my feelings on the matter. We are literally commanded to live in such love that we mourn the passing of those we love. It feels right and proper, even necessary, to mourn the deaths of loved ones. As you pointed out, Jesus himself wept at the death of Lazarus, though he certainly knew and understood better than anyone the true nature of life and death. My thoughts, for whatever they're worth.
  20. 2 points
    On the subject people going through with some pretty painful stuff to make them feel right. Take transgenderism... currently it is in vogue and completely acceptable to have a sexual reassignment surgery if a person thinks it might make them feel better or "more true" to themselves and what they want to be. The science is still very much influx on the results of this. Any rational assessment has to find sexual reassignment surgery, is just as barbaric as "Zap away the Gay." The only difference is zapping started first and triggers the outrage of the Left, whereas sex change is the darling of the Left and they try to cancel anything that they disagree with including challenging their darlings.
  21. 2 points
    dprh

    Matthew 11:29 - 30

    My wife and I cringe every time we hear someone at church say "Jesus never said it would be easy, he just said it would be worth it." because (as far as we know) he never said that. A yoke, is was a piece of wood that is fastened to the necks of two animals and then attached to a plow or cart. It is not the burden itself. It is the method of uniting two animals together. In addiction recovery, we often say "One day at a time." When I first started, my wife was often upset that I couldn't/wouldn't promise to be clean the rest of my life. I could promise that today, I will be good. I start my mornings dedicating the day to the Lord and asking for His guidance and help. Every morning, I yoke myself with Him and it's easy to do. There may be difficulties and at times I want to fight or pull away, but when I tie myself to Him, it works out.
  22. 2 points
    Perhaps if we compared it to the subject that it is most comparable to (in the context of the LoC): Heterosexual Lust. And here, I merely mean "powerful sexual desire" not necessarily going into actual activity or indulging fantasies in our minds. Even if we give the benefit of the doubt to the sister who called herself "queer", the best interpretation would be that she experiences same sex attraction, but she's committed to not acting on those impulses. If that is so, then what is the closest parallel to heterosexual attraction? ************************************************* If she were a married woman, would anyone ever ask her to come to a forum such as the Women's Conference and express in an equally matter of fact manner that she often finds herself lusting after other men (even though she remains faithful to her husband) ? Why not? It is just stating that she has a weakness. But she's never crossed the line. I don't think anyone would be asked to do that. I don't think many women would be willing to come out and say that publicly. What about a single heterosexual woman? Would she be asked to come to a public forum and express that she has a craving for the flesh (but she never acts on it)? Similar for men. In fact, I've seen videos on the Church website where men are asked to talk about their struggle with pornography and self-abuse. But their voices are not real, they are actors (as far as I can tell) and they show no image of the speaker. This is what makes me go "huh?" Why are these men given privacy in the discussion? Yet this woman proudly stands in front of the whole world and announces her struggle with sexuality? ************************************************* It is the "normalization" of SSA that is disturbing. So, why is it that we seem to be going out of our way to "normalize" same sex attraction? And if it is by its nature sinful, normalizing it would be worse than expressing simple heterosexual (sexual) attraction. With heterosexual attraction, it can be expressed within the bonds of marriage. So, as long as it is controlled within the boundaries that the Lord has set, then it can be the source of strengthening the bonds of marriage. So, if anything, we SHOULD be encouraging the normalization of heterosexual attraction. NOTHING good can come from same sex attraction. Because of that one quality, it is by nature sinful. Don't misinterpret me here. I'm NOT saying that simply having the attraction necessarily means one is committing sin. I believe the words of prophets and apostles have characterized this "trait" as something that is in its own category. The trait is something that has no spiritually beneficial side. But it has a strong propensity to drive one towards sinful behavior. As such, if possible, one should fight and struggle to be rid of that trait. Yet, merely having the trait is not, in and of itself, sinful. I can't think of anything off the top of my head that is like that. But why the normalization of proudly declaring SSA. But hide and protect the identity of a man struggling with pornography and self-abuse?
  23. 1 point
    So it's about time and place. Sure, there is a time and a place to discuss our weaknesses. Advertising them publicly during a Church-sponsored Women's Conference, and then being praised for how wonderful you are for having discussed them, seems overtly wrong. Shame exists for a purpose. If we do shameful things, we should be ashamed. As with any other emotion, there are times when shame is an inappropriate and even harmful response. But don't think that means shame itself is bad. A world without shame is called the jungle, and it's a place you do not want to live in.
  24. 1 point
    @NeuroTypical, thank you. Your response was incredibly insightful. You, my friend, just showed all of us what Christlike empathy and understanding is all about.
  25. 1 point
    Suzie

    Wayward Children Born under the Covenant

    The quote attributed to Joseph Smith comes from Joseph Smith and William Clayton's journals (as well as others present when Joseph Smith allegedly said it) It was in the funeral of judge Elias Higbee, his children were what we would consider "wayward" and the prophet even offered sealing ordinances to some of Higbee's daughters in law. The problem is that when historians tried to reconstruct the story, made the text sound like the sealing ordinance of children to parents seems to guarantee them exaltation regardless of how bad they lived and the knowledge they possessed. However, in Howard and Martha Coray's notebook (present at the funeral) the quote actually talks about kids who have NOT transgressed. Ehat and Cook made a remarkable point that is more consistent to LDS doctrine: