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  1. 5 points
    Over the decades, I have encountered no fewer than half a dozen people who told me they knew the year. Those years have all come and gone. Over the centuries, I've read of at least a dozen other people or groups who all claimed to know the time of the second coming. Like the ones I personally encountered, their timeframes were all soon/immediately/quickly. I'm told the first predictors of the second coming happened within a few years of Christ's death/ascendance. *shrug*. Eventually, someone'll get it right. Like they did in the BoM with prophecies of Christ's birth.
  2. 4 points
    mirkwood

    Like In The Days of Noah

    If we are going to throw that out there, let's at least get the church's official stance correct. From the Hanbook, Section 38 (which Pres. Nelson had updated at the beginning of Covid): “Vaccinations administered by competent medical professionals protect health and preserve life,” “Members of the church are encouraged to safeguard themselves, their children and their communities through vaccination. “Ultimately,” the statement continued, “individuals are responsible to make their own decisions about vaccination. If members have concerns, they should counsel with competent medical professionals and also seek the guidance of the Holy Ghost.”
  3. 4 points
    Mental Health Awareness and Overdose Awareness--two causes that came onto my radar with the death of a great-niece. At 20 Fetinol took her life. She believed there is a God, and in some ways showed openness--though she never agreed with "religion." What we can agree on is that she now sees much more than she did. She now knows God the Father is real and that Jesus is the way to reconcile with Him. This story might cause some here to renew their dedication to Baptisms for the Dead. For me, it is a reminder that life is short and our love must be intentional and out loud.
  4. 2 points
    I am very frustrated by the way the English word "joy" gets used in gospel discussion and would maybe like to find a different word or just be clearer on what we mean when we say "joy." To me "joy" is not a productive word because it makes lots of people feel they are failing when they are living the gospel teachings the best they know how but are still not feeling "joyful." I know there is a lot of discussion about the difference between "happiness" and "joy" - "joy" meaning more durable happiness -- but there seems to be an implication in the church that "joy" is an unending absence of sorrow or stream of contentment that comes from living the gospel to its fullest. President Nelson's recent talk on joy gives some insight to a possible, better definition of the word saying, "If we focus on the joy that will come to us, or to those we love, what can we endure that presently seems overwhelming, painful, scary, unfair, or simply impossible?" (emphasis added). In this case he is not really talking about "joy" in the sense of persisting, current contentment but talking about how we should focus on the idea of potential "joy" in the future which thought will give us the strength to endure this life. In the body of his talk, he seems to suggest that joy is not a persistent feeling but a potential, temporary state amidst affliction. I don't think Jesus was "joyful" at the very moment he was bleeding at every pore or having nails put in his hands. I can believe he may have been anticipating great joy in the future and as a result was able to endure, but was he really feeling "persisting contentment" when he called out "why has thou forsaken me?" Jesus, the most perfect of us all, is described by Isaiah as "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief." Multitudes of prophets -- from Jeremiah to George Albert Smith -- seemingly had moments of immense anguish. Did they still have "joy" even in their despair or did they just have a faith in future joy??? Should we maybe stop using the word "joy" in gospel discussions and instead find words that better describe the satisfaction the gospel might bring?
  5. 2 points
    Anddenex

    Knowing and Believing

    I would say, not becoming a son of Perdition is a great advantage of faith over knowledge (in this scenario for sure). There is one aspect I think is very important to "faith" given in the book by Joseph Smith that faith is the power and action of all intelligent beings. Knowledge and faith form a symbiotic relationship of principles. We may have the knowledge of how to build a house, but the action to build that house is accomplished through faith. At times, the desire for knowledge is the reason why there is no action. I won't move until "I know", as doubting Thomas is a great example of this. Another example, think of Laman and Lemuel who said, paraphrased, "God has made no such thing known to us." In contrast, Nephi acted in faith, faithfulness, and as a result of his faith he gained knowledge -- the Lord softened his heart toward his father and made things "known" unto him that Laman and Lemuel did not because Nephi acted with faith, while Laman and Lemuel were "waiting" for knowledge. Abraham 1:2, is a great verse of scripture that highlights faith leading to obedience which leads to more knowledge. So, I would say the biggest benefit of faith is "action." Knowledge doesn't always lead to action, as has already been mentioned with Satan and his minions who followed him. They know, but do not believe in the Father's plan and fight against it. A marriage works through faith, and more so it works even better where there is faith in Jesus Christ or in true principles. I would make mention again, the greatest gift/benefit of faith is the power to act -- action. Without action there isn't any faith, it is either knowledge or belief. With faith there is action, or wisdom. Wisdom being who we place our trust in, and who we act for.
  6. 2 points
    LDSGator

    Mid-term election Predictions

    I understand where you are coming from, even if I disagree. We were so divided back then that it led to an actual, legit war. We’re not there in 2022.
  7. 2 points
    JohnsonJones

    Like In The Days of Noah

    I feel there WERE warnings in Noah's time. They probably started BEFORE Noah actually even started building his Ark. In that light, it could have been going on for HUNDREDS of years prior to the flood. People just didn't act upon those warnings and didn't believe in them. They saw life continuing as it always did, and lived it as such while ignoring the prophets and anything they said. We see this today, even among Church members. In a more literal and recent event, we saw it with the pandemic. We had prophets and apostles come out and tell us to wear masks, social distance, get vaccinated. Instead of actually listening and doing what the Prophets asked us to do, we had MANY go to these statements and tear them down. These were members of the Church doing this. We had OPEN rebellion in some Church buildings and services with people REFUSING to wear masks OR social distance. We had people making up all sorts of excuses NOT to get vaccinated. The pandemic was something we literally could see occurring in front of us. The statements from Apostles and First Presidency were directly dealing with a situation occurring in real time, and even then, we had so many within the church (not even those who are not members, we are talking the membership itself) go in open rebellion. If something that is seen and experienced in the immediate present is treated in such a manner, how is something that is not yet seen (such as Noah's flood before it finally occurred) being treated by people? When the events of the Second Coming actually occur and the Lord comes, there could be a lot of death and destruction from formerly confident individuals. If it happens within my lifetime, I'm not sure I'm going to survive it (nothing in my patriarchal blessing indicates that I will survive it). Many look forward to it as if they will be one of those spared, I find very few actually look at it and think...I might not actually survive this. We will be there in the afterlife to see it perhaps, but there may be many who think that they are among those sanctified that are eating and drinking today, marrying and frolicking, and all sorts of other daily activities who will not live in the mortal flesh to see the Second Coming (and that probably includes myself).
  8. 1 point
    Carborendum

    Like In The Days of Noah

    The bolded portion stood out to me in this passage recently. From what we read in Genesis, there was no warning, no building up phase with calamities in society. One day was sunny skies. The next day was the Deluge. But with the Second Coming, we have signs of the times. There is a build up. MAJOR CALAMITIES, and we're still celebrating, marrying and giving in marriage. A commonly accepted timeframe for Noah to build the ark was 120 years (this value is debated). It has been 202 years since the First Vision. It has been 192 years since the founding of the Church. All other significant events in between. All during this time, we've seen calamities and signs of the times that have been dismissed as a false alarm. I wonder if they were. I wonder if we're just making merry as in the Days of Noah. We may not know the day nor the hour of the Second Coming. But I tend to think that just because our lifespans are so short, we don't fully appreciate that we truly are in the last days.
  9. 1 point
    Traveler

    What exactly is a double standard?

    I will watch the video later - I believe we have the right to disagree with anyone. I believe the free speech allows us to address anyone we disagree with.. I believe we can petition our government for any grievance we may have. But I also believe all individuals have a right to privacy and that no one has the right to petition anyone on private property or a place of residence. Any petition of grievance must take place on public property. There is one exception where a grievance on private property can take place and that is through a government official such as the police, federal marshal or other such authorized government authority. I also believe that protesters protesting in residential streets should be illegal. That protests based in petitions of grievances should be restricted to places of government operations specific to the grievance. In other words if one is protesting what is going on with congress - the protest should be confined to where official acts of congress are taking place (which would include congressional campaigns and campaign financing). But I would add that one should only be able to petition their representatives. If someone does not represent us - we should leave them alone and allow those that they represent to deal with them. The Traveler
  10. 1 point
    laronius

    Knowing and Believing

    In Alma's classic discourse on faith he contrasts knowing vs believing and speaks against those who have to know as opposed to merely believing and then says: 19 And now, how much more cursed is he that knoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression? Is this the only benefit to not knowing and only having faith or are there other benefits to faith that knowledge does not give us?
  11. 1 point
    Traveler

    Tree of Life

    A number of years ago I did what I would consider an exhaustive study of the "Tree of Life" and the Cherubim (with a flaming sword) associated with the Tree of life. I am somewhat convinced that all these things are symbolic. I will summarize what I have come to think these symbols reference. But before I begin, I want to make clear that I am not 100% sure I am correct and that I am willing to consider other options and discuss in detail any point - and I promise I will not get upset with any disagreements. Besides the references in Genesis we also have references in the Book of Mormon. I had several long discussions with an Muslim friend about the tree of life references in the Book of Mormon from Lehi's dream. Being from the middle east my friend was associated with Middle Eastern Tradition and Culture. There is a particular date palm tree that grows in the middle east called "the tree of life" and produces white fruit. The fruit is very nourishing. The reason this tree is called the tree of life is because the ripen fruit can be packed on camels and last for months without going rotten in the hot desert. It is one of the very few foods for sustaining life for long trips in the desert. The best variety of this tree grows naturally south of Israel on the eastern shores of the Red Sea. (BTW this is something that Joseph could not have known except by revelation when translating the Book of Mormon). I believe the fruit of the Tree of Life is symbolic of the spiritual light and truth that sustains eternal life. In careful reading of the KJV Bible the particular word used to describe the Cherubim with the flaming sword does not say that the Cherubim "guards" the way but rather "Keeps" the way to the tree of life. In the New Testament Jesus says that he is the way. I believe Jesus is that Cherubim symbolized as the keeper of the way to the Tree of Life in Genesis. Jesus also said that if we search the scripture we will discover that the scriptures testify of him. I believe this is one of the examples of how ancient Biblical scriptures testify of Jesus Christ. I would also point out that in all of scripture there is only one other place where an individual displays fire and a sword in relation to man's salvation - this reference is in the 19th chapter of Revelation verses 12 and 15. If any one has a better explanation - I would be interested in your explanation. I would also point out that we are taught in the temple that Jesus is put specifically and uniquely in charge of the Cherubim that controls all access to the Tree of Life when Adam and Eve are expelled from the Garden of Eden. One last point - Mostly the scripture use the word Cherubim which is actually a Greek term that anciently referenced a "type" of G-d and that the word Cherubim has come to mean a type of angel somewhat after the time of Jesus. In my mind the symbolism is clear and that the only way to eternal life (the Tree of Life) is by the Word of G-d (that John tells us - both in his Gospel and the Book of Revelation) that Jesus is the Word of G-d or the Iron Rod - both the iron rod and the word of G-d are referenced in the Book of Mormon, which is a testament of Jesus Christ. All this make very clear sense to me. The Traveler
  12. 1 point
    There are numberless platitudes, one liners, phrases and words we use in the church that I feel we use in more situations than is called for this leads to ambiguous definitions. I can see “joy” being in that pile. To me, I understand joy just meaning peace in the direction are going. I am without a doubt happier playing video games than I am at the temple. But the peace and self assurance I get from the temple is essential for my life. Plato t video games does not give me peace or provide a sense that what I am doing is good. I would not connect joy and happiness in anyway.
  13. 1 point
    Carborendum

    Like In The Days of Noah

    People always read into it whatever they want. People believe what they want to believe. People ignore what they want to ignore. I've known only a precious few (I'm not one of them) who have been largely immune from this tendency.
  14. 1 point
    Carborendum

    Like In The Days of Noah

    No, I don't think we know the year either. My point was that people tend to give up on the idea that we're in the last days because business as usual keeps happening. The fact is that prophecies say that we're going to see business as usual throughout the last days. It isn't even the frog in a pot. We'll see tremendous periods of great prosperity. But the Second Coming will happen anyway, and we are supposed to do our part to prepare the way.
  15. 1 point
    JohnsonJones

    Knowing and Believing

    There is a difference between believing and Knowing and even if that is all there is, it's a rather drastic difference. I'm trying to think of a relevant example. You have children and they see you buy candy at the store. They have been told that if they are good, they will get that candy. Because they KNOW you have the candy, it limits their ability to choose. They Believe (and if it is true, it would be faith) you will give them the candy if they are good. The KNOW you have the candy. They WANT that candy, so they behave. Now, if they never saw you have candy and didn't know if you did, or did not, have candy, they may still be good. They may still believe they will get candy, but the impetus will not be as strong. Because it is not as strong an impetus, you could say that without knowledge, the choice is harder to make because it is their ability to choose is much more free. It is not based on sure knowledge in any part, but a belief instead. Knowledge of the Lord is harder than that. I know the Lord lives and exists. I have seen and talked to the Savior. I know that the adversary exists. I have dealt with him physically as well. This knowledge has it's benefits and detriments. It is a GREAT comfort to KNOW rather than to hope or believe that he is real and exist. I also don't feel that I can do certain things. My freedom to walk away from Church or skip out I feel is no longer an option, even if I wanted to do it. My freedom to choose NOT to do certain things (for example, I'd love to give in to the temptation for a sip of coffee, even for a second. That's a FAR greater addiction for me than any other from before my member days. It's been decades and I still would want a cup, but I WILL not because it's not in the plan of things. It goes against what we should be doing, at least for present day commandments) is restricted. Because of my knowledge, I could STILL choose to do things, but the default is to NOT to choose them. It gets worse. The adversary ALSO knows you know and acts accordingly. This makes things much worse sometimes. The degree of obstacles at times seem to scale directly in relation to knowledge, and with pure knowledge the adversity to it can get bad. Once you know, the things getting tossed against you to deny that knowledge can sometimes seem unbearable. In Academia, that can involve many things that are so challenging as to threaten your livelihood (having credentials tossed out if you don't refute things, or discredited if you uphold that God exists and influences things, etc), you home, and even your life come into effect that make you wonder why you get so targetted in these things. Knowledge can be a great comfort and good to have, but the challenges that come with it can be extreme at times. The Prophet Joseph knew far more than others, and he paid for that knowledge with his life. Knowledge is a good thing to have but the temptations and things against you rise proportionally and can be extreme. On the otherhand, with belief You may not have the comfort or assurance of many things. You HOPE, but you do not have that absolute certainty that knowledge brings. I Know the Lord lives and he is the savior. That said, I do not have a knowledge of all things. I have a belief that I should pay my tithing, but I don't have an absolute knowledge of it and that it is the right thing to be doing. I was not instructed by the Lord personally on the matter, I just have the scriptures and what they say as well as the leaders of the Church. I have FAITH that it is being done correctly, and hope that I am doing it right, but I do not have a pure knowledge on it. I may have it wrong, I don't know for positive that even I am right in it and interpret things absolutely correctly. It is hard to say which is better. I feel that if you only have belief, things are easier overall. It also allows you more freedom in what YOU can choose to do or not to do. Knowledge gives you comfort, but that comfort comes at a price to try to challenge that comfort. The level of understanding and knowledge is directly contrasted with what will tempt you to choose evil, even with the knowledge you have. How much in pain and temptation do you actually want to PAY for that knowledge? How much physical discomfort (and, if you get pure knowledge to what Joseph had, even death and temporary loss of family, along with your family also being tormented at times with you being unable to stop their torment and perhaps even their loss of faith of what you have) would you willing to give to have that knowledge. How much are you actually able to bear? I think that's one BIG difference of how much knowledge we obtain at times. Hopefully we are never given more than we can bear, but knowledge has it's price.
  16. 1 point
    LDSGator

    Mid-term election Predictions

    Okay. Well, I’m sorry I came across that way. You are, of course, free to comment and talk about any issue you’d like.
  17. 1 point
    That's a reasonable point. But it is still a matter of semantics. This is true. But when the very people who are called Jews are the ones defining it, we have to allow that theirs is a valid definition.
  18. 1 point
    Vort

    Feedback requested to Alma 11:37

    My opinion: You're overthinking this. Amulek offered a simple logical response to a straightforward, if dishonest, question from Zeezrom: Will God save us in our sins? This is a yes or no question, and whichever answer Amulek gave, Zeezrom would have skewered him. Had Amulek answered "no", as expected, Zeezrom would have responded that such a God was unjust, partial, and certainly not All-Powerful. Had Amulek answered "yes", Zeezrom would have asked Amulek what he was worrying about, then. But Zeezrom wasn't expecting Amulek to answer with an explanation that exposed Zeezrom's lies. Amulek's answer was, in effect, "No, of course not. That's like asking if God will let us be dry in our wetness. It makes no sense. To be saved MEANS to be sinless, without spot. God cannot save us in our sins, because 'salvation in sin' has no meaning."
  19. 1 point
    LDSGator

    The Voice of the People

    Chilling. And let’s be honest. Democrats would have a huge problem here if the justices were going to overturn Heller vs DC and a conservative law clerk leaked this. Hypocrisy at it’s finest.
  20. 1 point
    Traveler

    Feedback requested to Alma 11:37

    I would add some thoughts. There was a religious notion that we see trending even back to the time of Adam (and perhaps even to our pre-existence) concerning a problem of agency and how committing a sin excludes a person from the presents of G-d. Most notably in the epoch (doctrine) of Baal we find a corruption of that atonement of Christ. Baal was a demigod with a father in the Pagan notion of the G-d El and a mortal mother. He sacrificed himself in a battle between "good and evil" and was brought back to life (resurrected to immorality) in a divine (magic) ritual. Having been raised from the dead, Baal saves all of mankind from the underworld of hell. Among the many differences or corruptions in the epoch of Baal as opposed to Christ and the atonement is this notion of mankind being saved in their sins. The difference is that with Baal, no repentance is required and as been revealed in Christ man must enter into the covenant of baptism for the remission of sins. Anciently in the worship of Baal sins were celebrated and encouraged in the worship of Baal. Primarily, sexual sins and acts of violence against enemies of Baal and the doctrine of all mankind being saved in their sins were ritually expressed in sexual activity (or sexual ogres of all kinds and types) and human sacrifices of those in opposition to Baal. It is interesting to note in the doctrine epoch of Baal that only those that worshiped Baal were saved and that they were saved in their sins without repentance. It appears to me that Satan is not all that creative - that he, in essence, utilizes the same methods that were exploited in ancient times (perhaps even in the pre-existence) as he utilizes today. I believe this is why we see sexual perversions being celebrated even now throughout our society. That all sexual activity is considered acceptable and encouraged and that the conventual concept of marriage and family are opposed and even discouraged. Thus I see the reference in Alma to not being saved "IN" sin as opposition of being saved "FROM" sin as a very important note explicit for our day and time as being very prophetic and part of the Last-days and conflict between good and evil. That the tactics of Satan as well as the methods of G-d have not changed (see Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 Note here that it is my impression that verse 10 refers to the pre-existence). The Traveler
  21. 1 point
    Semantic...no. Abraham couldn't have been a Jew. Jew is from Judah. Judah is the great grandson of Abraham. Abraham wasn't a Jew as Abraham followed a "higher law" not the lesser law which was given through Moses to the children of Israel. So there was no Judaism with Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob as all followed a higher law at the time. Judaism is represented of the lesser law. The point of the question, was to highlight the difference between Judaism and Moses (who obviously wasn't part of Judaism). It would be similar to saying Catholics today are no different than the Protestant Christians of our day. Catholics were the first Protestant Christians? They weren't. Or even more highlighted, Catholics today who say the Apostles were the first Catholics. Were they? So no matter what we "hold" as true, doesn't make it accurate as with saying Abraham or Moses (who were both higher law followers, Moses himself subjecting to the will the Lord followed the mandated lesser law although fully capable and probably did follow the higher law as well. If records are true, which I can't see why not, that he eventually was translated). It wasn't "Judaism" that Moses instituted, otherwise, do you consider the Nephites to be part of the Judaic religion?
  22. 1 point
    This is a semantic question. Jews today are the remaining tribes of Israel. They are largely of the tribe of Judah. But those few that are with other tribes are part of those numbered among the Jews. Most Jews today hold that either Abraham or Moses was the first Jew.
  23. 1 point
    No. Jews are part of the Tribe of Judah. It is a slang/shortened term for the members of the Tribe of Judah. Moses was not part of that Tribe.
  24. 1 point
    My son serving in the Nashville, Tennessee Mission had his first baptism. She was over 70 years old and gave up coffee and smoking to join the restored Church of Jesus Christ. My son said about thirty people showed up to her baptism. He got to confirm her a member of church and gave her the Gift of the Holy Ghost.
  25. 1 point
    My son just arrived in the Nashville, Tennessee Mission. He is at the mission home now. The greatest work in the world will now begin soon for him.