deadinside

Yes it is tax deductible. Comes right off the top so if you are taxed at 25% you will get back 25% of what you paid more than likely unless other factors are involved. At the end of the year in December, you will likely be invited to sit with the bishop in a tithing settlement. He will have a paper with all that you have paid to date. That form is what you will keep for your taxes unless you pay something else after that tithing settlement and they will usually give you an updated for in that case.

My wife would not like this either. She thinks there should be no fantasizing about anyone. True, but it's still the real world and I'm only human. I can be respectful and not say anything, but to expect people to not think about anyone else to me is unrealistic and a fantasy world in itself. She may actually be able to do that, but I can't at this point. But more to the point, I'm right there with you, bytor2112.

Much of this is good stuff, but submission has to be defined. Such as should my wife just submit to me and allow me to do whatever I want? That is submission. Should I just do whatever she wants? I do not believe in 100% submission, but there is definitely something to be said for selfishness. I'm sure my wife would love it if I did the dishes, the laundry, cooked, cleaned, and took care of the kids, but what is left for her to do? People still need to feel needed and like they are giving. I need to feel those things as well. That doesn't mean I'm submitting, but being unselfish. You should not do things that are not who you are as a person such as I should not pretend so I can have a temple recommend. My wife should not pretend like she doesn't care that I don't believe the gospel. Those are things you should not submit to. 100% is not possible IMO. Thanks for your comments. The address the submission in a realistic manner that can be agreed upon. I laughed out loud at the Angelina/Brad comment on if you actually are Brad or Angelina.

Knowledge

I know it is a personal thing, but as I am married, that becomes something that affects the whole family. I would like to take the time to just worry about myself in this, but I may not have that luxury if I wish to stay married. If I don't now, then there's nothing more I can do in this area, but work on other aspects. I would much rather work on our marriage first, but this seems to be the biggest issue for her and a possible deal breaker.

So why does everyone come up with a different answer on such topics? Once you say you have faith, you have basically just made a choice to believe so now your mind will tell you what you need to justify your actions. Thus if you pray, you will feel like you got an answer because you want to. I think most ... or at least many people have common sense. What about religion makes any common sense? I can see that if people don't know how to explain something they will want it to be miracles even though the church even says that everything uses the laws of physics so a miricle is just us not understanding how it came to be. Much like a magician's trick. It's great until you see how it's done, then it looses some of the fun even though it is now truth.

I find myself in a predicament. I was raised LDS and married LDS and see it as a good thing, but in the last few years I found myself doubting more and more. Long story short, I am currently lacking in faith and trying for the sake of my marriage to research and find answers to some of the things that lead me to believe the way I do. I do not mean for this in any way as trying to pursuade people to my view, but rather want to state my views and have someone direct me on how I may be wrong or how I can change these views or get them answered from a church prospective. If this is not allowed, just delete the thread. I do not want it to be seen as anti material in any way. I'm just not sure where to go for answers to see if I can find my faith again. So we'll start with Faith. What is it? How do we get it? My personal views at this time are that faith is the power of the mind. I like to look at things from a theological or philosophical point of view. My wife hates this and always thinks I am trying to sell her on my views, when I am really trying to state my views and see how they can be wrong or fit within the LDS view. She does not wish to have these conversations with me even though she wants me to be active in the church again. She just seems to be fine with just faith and believing what you are told from that point on. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but my mind doesn't work like that. I need more than just mindlessly telling myself what to believe in. I had lots of feelings like this years ago, but never spent time actually thinking about them. Just mindlessly going through the motions. I never feel I get answers to prayers, but amazingly my research and thoughts always seemed to be the same as my wife got through prayer. Was my research inspired by god or was her prayer inspired by my research? I think a big part of my current views actually started from reading "The Secret" oddly enough. It highly stresses the power of the mind and thinking what you want then making it happen. It has some obvious logic to it, but at the same time, you can tell yourself you want to believe anything and "trick" or believe what you want. I am seeking "truth", not just something that can make me happy. My wife sees the church as truth and happiness and I think that's great that she thinks like that and I have no desire to take that away from her. Just like missionaries though, if you believe something, you want to share it with others. I enjoy researching things and discussing it, but if it's not church related, she isn't interested so I will try and keep that stuff to myself. I was reading the missionary scripture or BOM promise as it is said. Moroni 10:3. "Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts. "And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost." So there you have the first problem I see. How do you have faith in something before you have even prayed about it? Shouldn't you gain faith through prayer and answers? Maybe I am not understanding what faith is or how to get it. I see this as the case with anything you want to decide to have faith about. Why does everyone that reads this not come to the same conclusion if they have a sincere heart with real intent? I can do that, but the faith thing I can't grasp. With the huge number of different religions, there has to be many in each religion that truly believe what they are doing is true and they will attest to knowing it's true because God told them it was. I'm sure there are many many more that don't truly believe, but say they do. I'm just worried about those that actually are living it and believe they really have the truth, when it is so different from what LDS teach as truth. Not even just christianity, but anything. That's why I see faith as a brain power more than a truth. I could go on and on, but I'll stop there and hope for some responses on thoughts and ideas. Thanks in advance.

Answered. Thanks all.

The church follows the law of the land as well. You may be sealed in heaven, but on earth you are divorced. Thus fornication or adultery.

Is there any published information about divorce from a Gospel Doctrine aspect? Thanks everyone.

I don't believe you pay tithing unless you are a member so until you get baptized I don't think you would pay, but you would need to be willing to once baptized. It is required for a temple recommend, but not as just a member either. I don't see why a believer wouldn't pay though.

Thanks. I just wanted 2 be sure. She can still give fast offering then. I don't see a problem with that.

I'm not sure which area this question should be in so if it needs moved, feel free to do so. If a woman is active and their spouse is not and the spouse is the one that makes the money, how does tithing work in this situation? The woman wants to maintain her temple worthy status.

Thanks again for all your comments. I'll take them to heart.

OK, here is a complaint I have about my wife. I can't ask her opinion on anything and just get her opinion. She has to pray about everything. I want to do things nice for her and I ask what she wants and that's always her response. Why can't she just have her own opinion on anything? Why does everything have to involve God? Even when I did believe more, I only went to the lord when I had a problem or over more spiritual decisions. We can't do anything without it being a threesome and not in the perverted way. That I don't like. I want HER opinion, not her opinion of what God wants.

Lots of good comments. We'll see how it goes. I'm going to tell my wife I'm struggling with my testimony and go from there. No need to bring up anything personal in our relationship as most have suggested. I'm planting a new seed for our relationship. I cancelled TV and I'll start spending that time with her and my kids. More on how to rekindle our relationship without destroying it - I recently planned on getting my wife a nice diamond pendant. I thought she wasn't into jewelry at all and maybe she isn't. She's always just had her wedding ring which is pretty nice, but didn't want anything else or at least that's what she said. I wanted to get her something nice again with this necklace. I started looking for nice diamonds to have mounted instead of just getting a run of the mil choice that had no thought and was just a purchase. Then I'd have that specifically chosen diamond, one of high quality, put in a setting. It was a rather large sum of money and just to make sure I wasn't wasting it I asked her opinion on it instead of making it a surprise. I shouldn't go around spending $3k without talking with her. So she starts looking at plain things and even shys away from diamonds and goes for sapphire instead. It ends up being like a $50 to $100 deal that to me doesn't seem special at all anymore. She's afraid she will loose it as kids still pull on stuff while being picked up. Then says to just get her whatever I want to get her. I can't handle these games. I want to get her something nice, but I want to get her something she would want which is something cheap. I opt to take her out and we get a cheap, but pretty pendant necklace that's sapphire and a cheap set of diamond earrings. She seems to love it. She wears it everywhere. Not just when we go out. She even showers with it on. So she obviously likes something about it. I'm guessing it's more of the fact that I finally did something nice like that and wants to show me how much she appreciates it or something. Like I said, I'm not the most romantic or sensitive guy around, but never abusive or mean. We very very rarely have any arguments. Then I heard her talking to one of her family once and says how I got her this cheap crap. More games? I guess it's because I will splurge on stuff for me, but stuff for me is always investment stuff. Stuff I can always sell for more than I buy it for and I've made making money my hobby. I collect money, commodities, etc. I very very rarely will loose money on anything I do. Just more of my boring self. She likes stuff that actually costs money and can't be sold for anything, such as workout equipment, going out to nice places to eat, clothes, and such. It will usually end up costing a little less than I spend, but I still have all mine at the end and hers is all worthless so I don't feel like I really spent anything. Maybe I'm wrong in this view. I'm open to more suggestions if you see something else I'm seeing in the wrong way. So go ahead and spare no feelings. I'm here to get opinions which is helping. Anyways, she emails me a few weeks ago and says the sapphire in her necklace fell out and she seems all devastated. Good thing it was cheap crap. But at the same time, it's the thought of what it was and if it were expensive would it have fallen out of it's setting? Probably not. So maybe a sign of my feelings of working on things I could get her the nice necklace I wanted to get her in the first place. Would this be a good start?

Thank you all for your comments. I really have no desire to gain more faith, but maybe I will someday. I agree with this, but I believe it is human nature. Any thought whether it's the thought that the church is true or something else. Does that make the thought true? Millions of people are out there trying to do the right thing going through the same steps, yet if there was one true church, why wouldn't all those truly searching and praying be able to find it? Why do they all come up with a different answer and know completely that it is the right one? It's a thought they put in their head and nurtured it until feels like a truth. Why would anyone not want to search everything that is out there to come up with the truth? This seems the logical path, but all or most religions tell you to stay away from material that goes against it's teachings. Why if you are searching for the truth? The why is obvious to me. Why would they want you searching other places to put new thoughts into your head that might be lingered on and become your new truth. Possibly find something that makes you think what you have is not true. Here lies my problem.

I'm more concerned about talking to the bishop about my testimony. I can deal with staying with my family. That would be ideal. If I can't baptize my kids or take the sacrament or do anything at church that's probably OK. I want my kids and wife to be happy. Sounds like I just need to talk to the bishop and figure things out from there.

You are correct. Definitely more doubt in the testimony than the marriage. I can deal with not loving my wife as much as a memory of the one that got away as it may be, but will she be able to deal with my lack of a testimony? That is definitely where I'd start. I personally could handle a marriage without the church, but can she handle a marriage without a priesthood holder? I don't want a divorce and I don't want to screw up my kids. I have a good life, but it's a joke having me go to church. It's an insult and it's wrong. I guess I could talk to the bishop and tell him my concerns. Loose my recommend and then tell my wife I'm working through some personal issues and hope she can just drop it for a while.

My post has the 2 issues. Not really related. Just saying that there's more than just the religious aspect of it to look at. I'm not telling my wife that I'm still in love with my ex. I may tell her I don't love her the way she loves me. So you are saying though that the girlfriend part that got away is normal and not something that my wife should even hear about, right? Would some women like to speak up? Better unsaid? I still don't get why you are thinking any of this has to do with money. It doesn't. I wasn't emotionally unavailable to my ex. I'm not lying to myself. I use to be a very loving and emotional guy. That relationship isn't the issue here IMO. It's not a relationship that will be rekindled. Just stating where I'm coming from. I'm sure I'm just in love with what I thought our relationship was before seeing the truth of it being more of a one sided love on my part and a fling on hers. I realize how lucky I am to have her, but how lucky is she? She wants more from me. I can tell. She does everything she can. It just doesn't change anything. She read some stupid book that is the bane of my existance...The Twilight Series and she wants me to love her like Edward loves Belle. Not the same, but that much and she can obviously tell I don't. Is it fair to her to be with someone like me or am I just being selfish in staying and hiding my true feelings? I am here for help. Not continuing to hide. If I don't tell it how it is, how can I expect to get any help. I'm not here to justify anything, but figure out what to do. So back to the bigger problem of religion. From what Richlittle said, would you have been happier never saying anything? Would it have been the right thing to do? To not say anything? Not sure what it was you said, but should you have just kept it in? Sounds like it was not dealing with the church as much as personal issues, but not sure. If I talk to a bishop about my issues then I'll loose my recommend and my wife will have to find out anyways so what's the point of talking to him first? Is it not best to talk to my wife first?

One of my questions if you were my wife in this situation. If your spouse felt like this would you prefer they pretend their whole life on something that is potentially this important? How often do you hear about people getting caught completely off guard with stuff like this? Catching them in the act of doing something like cheating or finding out from a friend that their spouse is not at all what they thought they were. I don't want it to ever get so bad that something like this happens. And no, I'm not going for divorce here. I hope she will be fine with it, but that's a possibility.

I definitely don't think blind siding my wife with this in front of anyone is the way to go. If anything, I'd tell her and then seek help. Help is what I'm seeking now, but how and when is kind of what I don't know. Part of why I have not done anything is because I don't want our relationship to change for the worse for very selfish reasons. Mostly what would come from having 4 kids if you know what I mean. She's not going to feel like getting intimate knowing she's not loved like she thought she was. I haven't cheated on her, but I'm sure it will feel the same as if I had. I have always thought and hoped my feelings would change. And what to do when I do not believe in the next? I can lie and live like this forever, but how is that right if the church is true? See my confusion? Man up and lie forever? How is that going to help the next life if there is one? Confess now and at least my wife can have a chance at a good after life.

Did you read my post at all? The relationship is only part of the problem. The religion is the biggest part in my mind. I broke it off with the other girl as I stated because I was trying to get back into church as I have been brought up to live and believe. She wasn't strong at all and made it very hard for me to try. If you are in a relationship that is leading you away from what you think you should do, then why would you stay? Again, have you read anything? Are you internalizing everything to your situation without reading mine? The problem is not my wife. She definitely takes care of me om every way. I'm not bored with life although I am very boring. How does me not believing in the church have anything to do with longing for no responsibilities? I'm not looking to start another relationship when I'm so obviously broken. Other than the religious aspect of it which should be the bigger issue here. Again, did you read anything? 10 years+ of being in a "man cave" isn't exactly being bored with my perfect life. I also mentioned that bills are not at all a problem. No debt other than 1/2 a house left to pay off. No car payment, no credit card debt and I make over $100k a year with a house payment under $1000. Money is not an issue. Hope this clears up that thought. I explained why I left. I wanted to get married. She wanted to play. I do feel safe with my wife. She was a very good choice for a wife and I wish I could love her the way she loves me. I wish I had her testimony. The "time and all eternity" is part of it, but not for what you are thinking. If it is true and we know each others thoughts in the afterlife and she finds out that I have not truly loved her the way she has loved me and stayed more for loyalty than love how will she feel? If it isn't true then she will never know anyways and it would be better to live the lie and die not knowing. I'm trying to be unselfish here, not completely selfish which I probably have been this whole time. If it is true and I have just been going, but not believing and baptize our children, goto the temple, do all the things that should be done by someone who truly is worthy of performing such acts, then I've done all that in sin as well since believing is part of being temple worthy, what will that mean? Will this just be forgiven? Even if it is true, then I wouldn't be her equal and would not be with my family. She deserves someone that believes as she does and could love her completely and won't drag her down, but push her up even more. So yes, maybe up until now I have been the most selfish person in the world. And I am trying to not take it lightly now. You would say I should man up and live the lie? How is that any help?. Are you saying after 10 years and still not loving my wife as much as I did my ex that more time will change this? What if I still feel the same in 20 years? Then is it the right time to tell her? I can continue to live this way forever, but I'd just be selfish in doing so.

Where to start? I have been married over 10 years and have 4 children under 10 years of age. We've had a good marriage. We are good with money and live well within our means. My wife is a stay at home mom and hasn't worked since we had our first child. We were sealed in the temple a year after we got married. We both have been raised in the church. I semi served a mission, but not honorably. I struggled for a few years, but came back and have been a good husband and loyal. Obviously never cheated. I live close to church and usually only go to sacrament meeting, but everyone else stays the whole time. Sometimes I do, but only if I'm with my wife in sunday school or in nursery with my kid. I get nothing from church and have not said anything. I don't really have a testimony anymore, but I'm not saying it's not true. Just no desire to go or believe. Almost enough back ground. More later. My wife is great. She has a strong testimony and lives the gospel. She is a great mom and wife. She has done nothing wrong. Just so that's clear. She deserves to be loved like she thinks she is. I'm an emotional amoeba. I love my wife, but I'm not in love with my wife. I was engaged before and broke it off. Then just a month or so later met my wife. I was in love with that girl and have been heart broken ever since even though I broke it off. I thought it was for the best as I was trying to get back into good standings with the church and she was not. Rarely do I dream about girls, but it's ALWAYS her. It's been 11 years and I still can't seem to get over her. I think I want what I thought I had with her, but didn't. I have only cried once since I met my wife and it was when I thought something had happened with one of our children. That was over 6 years ago so you can tell I'm not very emotionally there. What should I do? She deserves better than this. Should I continue to just live the lie and protect her from the truth? Should I try and tell her and hope it doesn't ruin our marriage? I was caught in a lie recently over something silly and my wife found out and was obviously hurt that I would lie to her for no apparent reason and asked me to never lie to her again. Will the truth do anyone any good? And yes this would be one of those totally blind sided conversations that they don't see coming and rips her world apart I think. I'm torn. Suggestions? What if it were you?

I have a couple questions. How did you first find out about this problem? How about the 2nd time with his hotel? If you caught him somehow then he's very sorry he got caught. Probably no more than that. Words are easy I I guarantee I could say all the right things, but feel nothing. If he does it again will you leave him? How about 2 more times? You have to answer those questions. It is possible he will never do it again, but it's more possible he will learn to hide it better next time as to not get caught. If you can't deal with it if it happened again, I'd probably just leave now and cut your losses....IF you don't have kids. If you have kids then it adds a whole new level of trouble. Why would he do this? If he believed the church and loved you as much as his words are, how could he do this? People like to use the word addiction too easily I think. It give everyone an easy out. There's usually something deeper than an addiction that would cause this IMO.