All, thx a ton. In fact the first thing I did was check the "for the strength of youth" program, hadn't pinged my bishop yet .. more to be nice to him than anything else :). Seriously, wanted to work this out in my own mind first. Also, I should have made it clear that I'm not looking to skirt the advice from our prophets, just looking to clarify it. I don't want any exchange to go like this: Me: No dating Awesome Son: what's dating Me: uhhmmm .... :) :) :) I think there are actually two points that I'll make with him. The first is: It doesn't matter if it's a date or not, it looks like a date to others and we want to be a peculiar people. (He's not crazy about this as I talked him thru it, but it's definitely a stance I believe in. Krazy, I'm so glad you said this. In my mind (which is a bit over the top on the analytics, but that's who I am) I was thinking something like this. If you devote more than 50% of the time to one person at any event, then that's dating. Doesn't matter who drives what, who pays what, or what others think ... you are focusing interest on one girl... Hmmm, as I think about this more, maybe they both need this ... she needs to spend at least 50% of her time with others while he is spending time with others. So, in this particular case, I'm thinking that he actually wouldn't be on a date by my new definition, but that he'll need to pass because it "looks like" a date. Time for a new post ... just what looks like a date .... j/k!!! lolz. Thx again to all.