rastler000
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Posts posted by rastler000
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Rastler i was referring/ referencing to Rameumptoms comment of "We live in a society where violence and sex are worshiped, truth is relative and meaningless, and true God fearing people are in the definite minority." It is that society that I fear raising my children in
Rastler- I do not know you and have no idea about your home environment so I could not comment on whether or not you are providing a healthy environment to raise your family in. I was referring to an environment, lifestyle, religious upbringing and so forth that I would like in my home.
Okay, fair enough. Mine is an environment that has the kids respect the adults. Education. Fitness. Volunteerism. Stuff like that. It admittably doesn't include religion but does have a different sort of spirituality.
For my part I don't care whether they outlaw gay marraige or not. I see marraige as a religious thing only anymore and do not plan on remarrying 'officially'. But I do think this "us versus them" mentality (played to the extreme by both sides) is not particularly helpful. This sense of an underlying 'hate' I get is the sort of thing which would have me want to protect my family from a group...... religious or not. It is part of what I consider raising a family in a safe environment. Have people vanadalying my stuff - with little ones around - doesn't seem all that safe.
FWIW, I know a number of gay people because of family connections, and they truly think that people in your religion, and your religion in general, hate them.
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It all comes down to whether we are teaching our children the things the scriptures and prophets teach. As D&C 1 tells us, we must follow the teachings of the living prophets and apostles, or we're veering off course. The Savior stated the same thing in 3 Nephi 12, when he added two Beatitudes to the beginning: 1) listen and follow the 12 disciples, and 2) repent and be baptized.
So basically are saying that unless someone is LDS the rest of the world in raising their families in unhealthy environments? I am just trying to clarify here. Do most LDS believe this as well?
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How true that is. Makes me sad as I think of raising my kids in such an environment. Motivates me to make sure my home is a strong healthy environment to raise them in
So if I see this issue different than you (not including the vandalizing as I do not condone that) does this mean I am not providing a healthy environment to raise my family in?
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Hmm are you related to a Scott Gallan?
Who?
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That outrageous deficit is the facilitation of the inflation. Inflation will wipe out the middle class. There will be no middle class. When the dollar goes, we all go. Support Ron Paul and the effort to restore sound money. Go to:
and
Ludwig von Mises Institute - Homepage
We can make a difference. God bless!
-a-train
For awhile. We get what we get. I am looking forward to having the company of a lot of people who have no health care, and don't get to retire. They get to enter my world.
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Think of the upside, it will take care of our outrageous deficit.
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Fine, none of which makes it reasonable to compare this to racism.
Well okay.... if this is a "I want to win the debate and you (meaning me) are bad and evil type of thing"... then I will concede. I mean I have been called a satanist, and a murderer, on this very board before, so why not. But you will have to excuse me if I pass on suggesting these values for my family. I will however mention that people consider as as horrible because we disagree with them if you do not mind. :)
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And I'm curious to know, what exactly is the gay lifestyle?
Well since most of the gay folk I know are in their 30's to 50's here is what I have seen. They share a house with their significant other. They get up in the morning... shower, etc... then they go to work. After work it is shopping, work around the house, eat dinner, watch TV, maybe go to the gym and get a work out in. Stuff like that. Some of them have kids so a lot of the after work freetime revolves around the kids. On weekends it is yard work, maybe go somewhere for the weekend. A movie. A night out. A ball game. A day at the park, or beach, that sort of thing. Usually at some point during the year they will take a vacation together.
It is a pretty scary lifestyle.
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If there's one thing about this whole discussion that really irritates me it's the idea that somehow same sex marriage issues equate to interracial marriage issues. Gay=/=Racial minority no matter how often you try to force the metaphor.
Homosexuals are not a race unto themselves. To treat them as such is, on some level, a slap in the face for members of minority races who had to struggle (and sometimes still do) to be treated as equals. I once worked as an auto tech and the tech in the stall next to me was black. I asked him once how he felt about that little comparison and he said that it annoyed him, because if you're a member of a minority race, say black, there's no hiding it, you are who you are and everyone sees it instantly. You can never "turn it off" in order to sit at the front of the bus or use the same facilities as everyone else. Nobody has ever uttered the phrase "I didn't know you were black..." to someone they've met in person and not been joking. Mind you, even so, being black is no different than being white except for the culture you live in.
On the other hand, homosexuals are who they are by choice on some level. Do they choose who they're attracted to? I believe that they don't, in fairness... But how they act on those feelings is completely under their control. Most of the people in my life who are gay told the they were before I had any idea. So while it might be fair to say that being gay isn't a choice, living the gay lifestyle IS. That's an utterly different situation from racial predjudice.
Frankly, I think even those who use that argument are aware of just how thin it is, but use it anyway because nobody likes to be compared to a racist, and it throws them off.
Basically a homosexuals choice is to it is either partner up with a significant other, and live as a married couple, finding happiness with who and what they are..... or live lonely lives without a significant other for whom they are attracted to in 'that way'.
Now if you really really believe in a faith, that is against homosexuality, then I suppose you are stuck doing the celibate Priest like thing. Which means in this very 'family' oriented church, you feel (and are) truly out of place (I believe we have a thread going on just that). But most people who are SSA don't do that. When they are younger they are frustrated, depressed, often angry, and often hiding in a "closet". Why? Because there is a clear prejudice against them. They know darn well coming out as gay in the atmospheres of conservative religions is not a friendly atmosphere to say the least. As they mature they tend to find an equilibrium with being gay, move on in life, pretty much blowing off those religions of their birth, and/or religion all together. I don't blame them.
I know at least a dozen SSA couples for whom this descirption fits.
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Oh, by the way, if by some far reach it was found that there was a gene or genes that make someone homosexual, and a geneticist came out with a way to measure a baby on the womb to see if it had those genes, who here would say that it should be okay for parents to check this out and if they have a kid with a high probability of being gay they can abort it and try again?
Only if they had an issue with it. And the ones who seem to have the biggest issues with homosexuality are conservative religious folks, who tend to be pro-life.
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Sacred Scripture is clear on that marriage should be between a man and a woman.
In Genesis-if there only were two people-Adam and Adam-that would pretty much end things
If there only was Eve and Eve-the same end to things.
Fortunately for us-there was Adam and Eve.--thus life continues.
Carol
Which is why I consider marraige a religious thing, and no longer plan on Marrying. Nor - given we are not particularly religious (an understatement! ;-)) - would it bother me if any of my family decided to forgo the marraige thing either.
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This line of reasoning mystify me when you ask a young child, are you gay and the response is no. Are born to be murderers? Are we born to be thieves? Are we born to be like Hitler? I expect the goal for any special interest is to first desensitize the people and push forward there line of agenda. Thinking it is a normal and acceptable.
Yet even your faith concedes there could be a component that may be genetic. We have a person on this board who is SSA and struggling partially as a result of that. Yet I have never had any sort of attraction to the same sex, and was raised in an atmosphere where is wasn't demonized or even considered bad, have a great many gay friends, a couple of gay family members. Given my luck with women if anybody should be influenced into being gay, it should be me. But it just doesn't work that way.
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I am not so sure people mostly got over mixed race marriages......I think some have adopted the idea of.."as long as it is not my son or daughter.." (that is not how I feel personally). In mixed race marriages, it is still a man and a woman. The controversy will continue regarding same sex marriage......for religious folks the moral issue can't simply be disregarded and treated as normal. I do wish the schools would stick to academics and leave social engineering alone. Teens and young adults seem more tolerant of "gay" people today and not as prone to "bully" or humiliate......and that's a good thing. Perhaps that is because they have been taught by pop culture(MTV) and TV sitcoms that people are born "gay".......and maybe they are...I don't know. I think the schools can insure a safe learning environment for our kids without teaching them about same-sex parents. By the time kids are in there early teens they are aware of the differences in people...race, religion and sexual orientation.......
A lot of these same arguments were made about mixed race marraiges decades ago. Other than within specific families, and perhaps some religions, mixed marraiges are not an issue. Gay marraige is trending the same way. It is probably about a decade or so away, but it is getting there. I realize for religious purposes you consider it a problem. But some religious people consider women not in burkas a problem, so I am not swayed.
FWIW, I am okay with the issue be resolved by virtue of civil unions with the same legal rights as marraige. I have mostly consigned marraige to being a 'religious thing', and have no intent on every marrying again.
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I think the rationale is that if you believe there's nothing morally wrong with same sex marriages, and if those marriages are legal in your state, then on some level showing a picture of a gay couple in a children's book should be no more unusual than showing a hetero set of parents, as is common.
The problem with that mentality is that it completely ignores the fact that, like it or not, this is a controversial issue and people have strong feelings about it on both sides.
The same thing could have been said about mixed race marraiges. They used to be illegal in many places as well. That changed and people mostly got over it.
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This philosophy would be in direct contradiction to the counsel of the LORD and everything I said in my post. We need not raise a finger to "hurt those satanists". "Those satanists" are not our enemies, but our kindred, our loved ones, our parents, our children. The whole point is that the political and economic system of the self-interested will cave in on itself without any help from us. Our work is not to promote that catastrophe, but to save as many from it as possible.
-a-train
I guess I must be a Satanist then..... need to make a sacrifice...... here kitty, kitty, kitty.
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The political/economic system of the world is controlled by Satan.
I think I'll pass on the end days type stuff. It doesn't seem particularly condusive to raising a normal productive member of society. It does seem pretty condusive to raising a scared kid who may want to hurt those "Satanists" if given the chance however. I know when I was a kid, being fit, rowdy, a bit impulsive, and some skills, I would have been all over that. Pity the poor Satanist that got in my way!
Seriously, I know kids like this now.
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I would also note that Finland has one of the lowest abortion rates in Europe. Also, it's really odd that England and the USA have abortion laws that in many ways are more liberal than China yet the Nordic countries have abortion laws that, while allowing abortion in the first trimester, are extremely restrictive in the last two trimesters.
Why do you think this is?
As far as I am concerned extremely strict after the first trimester would be a good compromise.... but neither side will go for it.
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None of us is in a position to answer this question for you. It is something you need to take up with the Lord in prayer, and if you find you don't get an answer, you should perhaps discuss it with your bishop, since it is with him that you have your temple recommend interview. I think it falls under two questions: (1) do you support/affiliate with any group whose teachings are in opposition to the Church, and (2) do you feel worthy to attend the temple?
Okay, lets take this a step further, lets say you vote for one of the candidates for POTUS. Neither candidate would be entirely pristine when it comes to answering the questions you posed. One candidate would clearly be less pristine. It would seem to me the only viable option you would have, in order to be safe with those questions, would be not to vote at all.
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Wrong. The church has made it clear that they/we view this as a moral issue, not a political issue. We view moral issues as fair game for a church to be involved in.
As to whether a person is still worthy to work in the temple based on whether they follow the advice of the Lord's annointed or not, that is a decision better asked of those who issued the recommend to you.
Do you think every SP in California, Arizona, and any other state, would give the exact same answer? If so, then surely you can suggest what that answer would be. Otherwise it would seem to be a "personal" thing dependent not on Gods will and opinion. Nor the Prophets will and opinion as determined by God, but instead the personal opinions of the individual SP's. Or.... God would seemly determine that no TR in this Stake... but yeah I will go with it in this Stake. Is it really that confusing?
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I see this as a more measured and nuanced approach than what you have stated on this thread.
I suspect a number of members struggle with this more realistic view of homosexuality.
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More Madison.....
Nothwithstanding the general progress made within the two last centuries in favour of this branch of liberty, & the full establishment of it, in some parts of our Country, there remains in others a strong bias towards the old error, that without some sort of alliance or coalition between Gov' & Religion neither can be duly supported: Such indeed is the tendency to such a coalition, and such its corrupting influence on both the parties, that the danger cannot be too carefully guarded agst.. And in a Gov' of opinion, like ours, the only effectual guard must be found in the soundness and stability of the general opinion on the subject. Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Gov will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together; [James Madison, Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822, The Writings of James Madison, Gaillard Hunt]
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HUD cries foul over illegal immigrant mortgage data - Phoenix Business Journal:
I looked for anything from Dobbs and I could not find it. Maybe what he said was that 10 million illegals were living in homes that held mortgages nationwhide -- that would seem to fit the figures cited in the news article above. I can't say for sure without actually hearing the broadcaste.
I believe that is what I heard somewhere too. Of course I'd want to see solid references for a number that high.
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The Sun has plenty of room..... :)
That could work.....
.... LOL, if I had a dollar for everytime some religious person has consigned me to a hot place I'd have my house and car paid off.
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Here is your first ref, my school. When i was in high school abstinence was not dicussed at all. Neither was it in any of the other schools in my area (I know because I had friends there too). We were given condoms, we talked about other types of protection, std's, and then of course babies. Not once was abstinence brought up.
I agree with Fiannan that if you see the child as a child and still feel compelled to vote pro-abortion then you are saying it is ok to murder. I will remember that for the next time in my life somebody comes along and they are inconvient to deal with, especially some fool at work.
The Church has been somewhat vauge about Abortion and the interview process does help shed some light on it. But then again I have a feeling that will change soon. We can look to the scriptures and see that murder is wrong and following the spirit I know that allowing these children to be murdered is WRONG and sinful.
Again I say, anyone that supports this barbaric murdering of our children should be locked up. In this life or the next, we will all be held accountable.
I am pro-choice..... when should I expect my jail sentence? Boy, with about half the people basically pro-choice to some extent..... it is going to be crowded. Where are we going to put all of us?
Church's stance on Prop 8 from LDS.org
in Current Events
Posted
Well given I have been called a murderer, evil, and a satanist, in the short time I have been posting here..... could be!