sd22

I don't really care who claims to be the smartest. It does matter when the infallible and only true and living church upon the face of the earth that is directed by Christ himself is wrong. This is a big issue for me, and for it not to be for you, well, that raises some questions I have as to what's keeping you in and how strong you really are. I'm not looking to come here to argue. Some of your points were good. But Brother Bitton makes some comments that I don't believe, shock and dismay, are realistic about what is really going inside people's hearts and minds when they discover the fallibilities of the church. These people are not weak. They simply know what they expect of a church directed by Christ himself, and some things just do not cut it.

Except for the misandry and specific examples of conservative politics given. Sorry, I should be more specific.

Yes, Faust showed that it was possible to be both Democrat and LDS. I never said it was impossible.

Actually, I can provide sources if you'll be patient. You're jumping to conclusions. I've come across sources supporting all of these.

Again, basically all of these were originally preceded by a speech or regulation set forth by a general authority of the past. For example, if you listened to many of the general authority speeches from over half a century ago, you would conclude that it would be very difficult to be a Democrat and LDS simultaneously.

Actually, it's don't group date until 16 and don't single off until 18 (but for men, basically 21). And no, it doesn't seem that this is doctrine, but it was spoken by the general authorities. (For a young man listening to a general authority say this in priesthood session, it basically seems like doctrine.) And so it goes for other LDS traditions. They might not be doctrine, but many people believe they are (since some GA said it).

I understand where you are coming from. Actually, I was the only one I know who brought up some of these concerns up to the other missionaries on my mission. It seemed as if I was the only one who knew about these issues at the time... even my mission president couldn't help me. How is that for killing your testimony of the church? Nobody knows what you are talking about. And so for a lot of my mission, I felt as if I was putting on an act. I tried my hardest to believe, but there were still these lingering issues in my mind... never to be resolved. After my mission, I did read a lot of FAIR and other apologetic material. Some of it was OK, but some of it just seemed to make things worse. ("If this is the church's best explanation, ouch, how can I believe now?") I would choose to push these issues to the back of my mind (as it seems some others have done - as a choice), but some of these issues I just can't. Some of these issues have a real impact on not only my life but my (hopefully) future kids as well. Maybe there is hope, and I literally mean this. Maybe people are a little more understanding now that the Internet is open and out there. Or maybe... now they just think that you are weak since you can't "get over it" as they have already "done" (although I don't think I've run across any who have had tried to get over as much material as I have). Unfortunately, it's not so easy to "get over" the fact that the person you're supposed to be following is just human as the rest of us. :-/

From: I Don't Have a Testimony of the History of the Church It's really sad to see a church historian, Davis Bitton, saying something like that. I'd ask him to rewrite his article. There are real, legitimate people out there leaving the church, yes, because of church history. It might not effect him but it does others. This is supposed to be the church of Christ, and here we have such a hostile non-loving statement being issued by a church leader: The church was never wrong. It's your own damn fault.

Well I'm glad to see that you can be LDS and not believe in these things. Because I'm not so sure that would have worked so much in the past. Maybe things are changing?

I can deal with this. I just have never thought a solid member could come to this conclusion. It's frustrating because I imagine (based on relationships in the past) that most members believe that anything Thomas Monson says or anything any other prophet says is set in stone. How would it be to be married to somebody who is LDS and tell them that you don't agree with something the prophet is saying? I do know one thing I did or at least misinterpreted based on what the general authorities were saying when I was younger that at the time really was not helpful. I was commanded not to single date until 18. But then, according to my bishop, I was supposed to prepare for a mission and avoid relationships. So if I was doing things as I was told (which I did), I didn't really have a chance to start dating until 21. I'm sorry, maybe other people figured it out starting at 21 (but I know most actually broke the "rules," but I didn't - I was faithful), and this had a HUGE impact on my life. I had a financial situation to manage in my early 20s that cost me a few years and didn't have much time for dating. I really wish I would have started when I was 15 or even younger. I know that sounds odd, but I wouldn't want the same to happen to my kids if another prophet were to say something that I didn't quite believe in. The prophets of the past have said many other such things. I could make quite an extensive list. How can people listen and follow with such a blind eye to everything that they're saying when they've been wrong so many times in the past? I don't think I can disagree with anything Christ says. And actually, I would love to teach my future children those principles. But what if I have a child who struggles socially or something and is told that he basically can't singly date until 21? I'm sorry, but this is terrible advice given by men who meant well but weren't helpful. And just one reason that I (at least for the moment) can't see myself dating (a "faithful" at least) church member.

Given the seriousness of accusations, I'm afraid I just have to say I can't believe this.

I really wish this were true. Unfortunately, in my case, it isn't. I'm a 31 year old single returned missionary who is finishing medical school residency. I've spent years of my life "digging" about church history to resolve my concerns. And the more I dug, the more I realized, that the church's history is really just a veritable big mess. But yet, even to this day, I am still trying to find SOME reason to believe in the LDS faith. This whole issue has basically ruined my life. I haven't dated hardly at all as the LDS girls seem way too naive, while the non-LDS girls are just too wordly. If the OP really wants to keep his faith, I would avise him to NOT dig. Sometimes, it seems, keeping ones head in the sand is the happiest way of living. :-(