Rosabella

Maybe this quote will help clarify. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Search When you click the Encyclopedia of Mormonism Explanation: Spirit Prison Spirit Prison - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism It seems to be an approved statement because LDS.org links to it. This is what it says:

Another quote. This is right off of LDS.org About what Hell is. Hell

Pam It is funny how the Lord works sometimes. I am glad I followed the feeling I had today and that it assisted you :)

You are very welcome. That is interesting you were looking for this quote. I have not been on this site or posted in a long time but felt like should look at this site just now and then saw this thread and felt I should post these quotes. Prompting? :)

Here are some quotes I found on this topic:

I converted similar to you. I was searching for the true church and found many attacking the LDS faith. They said all kinds of weird stuff about Mormons which ended up not to be true. I found what is called a Missionary Pal. It was a little book that was like a quick topical guide that helped missionaries get to scripture topics quickly. What I did was read it to see all the doctrines of the LDS faith (This was before the internet LOL) I would look up all the topics using the bible's Scriptures and sure enough all doctrines of Mormonism were right there in the Bible. I found that all the stuff that was being thrown at me that was anti-Mormon was just silliness and unfounded. What exciting time this is for you! I know it was for me :) I am very happy for you! Use Mormon.org as suggested before (I wish it had been there when I was searching) and get a hold of missionaries and you can always find a ward near you to just attend. I went to Church for a while before I joined and found it to be the opposite of all the stuff I had heard. Same once I went to the temple. It was beautiful and nothing close to what lies are spread about it. I have never in my 20 years now being LDS found anything that did not fit the Bible. May God Be With You Rosabella

This ends my discussion with you. This has gotten silly beyond absurdity. Arguments can be made out of anything. I can say the sun is the moon and the moon is the sun and argue you that I am right because of Historical context, linguistics, subjective refection etc. This is only arguing for argument's sake and is no longer a discussion but has degenerated to absurd intellectual games, which is contention and in which I have no interest in participating. I am willing to discuss and even debate ideas but not when it degenerates into this.

Mocking my deceased mother has won no points in your favor. My point is History, Scriptures and Prophets seem to differ from your view on the Constitution. You may find other Historians that do not agree with my mother's findings for they are against the Constitution, but I dare say you will find no prophet to back you. I think D&C 101 is pretty simple and to the point. God said "I established the Constitution of this land". If you do not believe the D&C and God's words that is fine. But you cannot recreate what the scriptures and prophets have said.

Godlessness is not independent of the social system. The essence of any form of "state-ism" is that they encourage or require worship of the state in place of God. You cannot have a powerful central government such as is necessary to run a socialist or communist society, without it developing into state-ism, whether the founders intended it or not. Let's look at it this way. Can the city of Zion be built under Socialism? Would we be allowed to set up an independent economic society such as the United Order within a system that required absolute integration with the powerful state? I think the answer is clear. We at this time cannot legally even use the barter system precisely because it is not taxable and therefore not under the control of the almighty state. Food coops are being raided and shut down. Why? They are no real threat, but again they are not playing in the system that the government demands from its slaves. When the Saints fled to Utah they were able to live without much interference from the federal government. Where can we flee to now? Where is a safe place to build Zion. We are told at some point Zion will be built in Missouri and it will not be part of the world's government, socialist or communist or whatever it might be at that time, because it cannot exist with those kinds of systems. The point that the Constitution has nothing to do with God and is Godless only works if you do not believe the words of Prophets and the writings of the creators of the Constitution. My Mother was a Historian of this very subject and it very clear what the founders intended and created. It is misrepresented when God is taken out of the equation of the Constitution and the founding of this Country.

Anything that helps people is not necessarily socialism. Socialism is when the government owns and controls the principle industries such as agriculture, utilities, education, health-care, transportation, and much of the root manufacturing industries such as mining, oil refining, etc. It also can imply that the government owns all land and that citizens "rent" it from the government (We call it property tax). Private ownership is usually limited to retail and small scale manufacture. We do not truly own our property even once it is paid for out right. If we do not pay taxes every year on said property we lose it. The government takes it away. So do we at this time really own property? No. We pay a huge deposit (cash or mortgage) then pay yearly rental fees (taxes) and if we do not meet those rental costs we are evicted from our property that we thought we owned. This is not owning property, this is bondage.

What social system creates the social programs is what is important, not just what the programs are. A godless system will make godless laws and godless programs. The constitution was not godless but was changed to become more godless over time, but that was not its original intent. Therefore the original Constitution is far better then what it has degenerated into. The Church has clearly stated that its programs are not socialist or communist. The important piece that people miss is that God is in charge of the Church and its programs not man. All the other social systems are man made. The constitution in its original form we have been told clearly by Prophets is the way the Lord wants government to be structured in this terrestrial world, because it is the best suited to protect free agency for man to chose His Gospel or not. This is the only governmental system the Lord has stated He approves of and of which He said He inspired the authors. For me it is simple and clear when I read the words of Prophets. There is only one approved "tool" to use. All the rest are of men or the adversary.

Here is a good reason why the Church stays neutral on politics, This is straight from the IRS. Charities, Churches and Politics As you can see the freedom of speech of Churches is forced to be silent on matters that could be conceived as promoting or opposing candidates. Therefore Churches must be very careful to stay completely neutral in public comments. This neutrality or silence does not show the lack of position, just the lack of their legal ability to state it openly. You can note this drastic change when looking at talks prior to the legislation and after. After the laws were changed we only get statements like this: "long grip of godless communism" or "freed from Communist rule" "After many years of Communist hostility to religion, these countries were suddenly and miraculously given a measure of religious freedom." If we look back during the years prior to these laws, our Church was very open on political matters and very forthright on where they stood. This is the great sadness resulting from socialist laws. They start to take away freedoms of speech. There were reasons why the laws were made at the time that appeared practical, just as all socialist laws do, but when one is searching for guidance from Prophets of God and they are silenced not by God but by laws this is a great tragedy. Our country was based on freedom of Religion and Speech, but is slowly turning to bondage. We were warned that if we strayed from the Constitution religious freedom was in grave jeopardy. We are being warned the same now with the New Civil Rights. We are told they will take away our freedom of religion. Will we listen this time or dismiss it as not possible?

Continued:

Since the question keeps coming up "What is socialism?" What does the Church mean when it talks about socialism?" What does the Church mean by the United Order?" "Is socialism or communism the same as the United Order?" Lets read from one of the most detailed Conference talks on the topic that answers these many questions. In this General Conference talk the definition of Socialism and the United Order were laid out in great detail. It shows what the Church's definition of both are. I will contiune the talk on my next post. That section discusses the differences.

So then maybe the reason they are seem more quiet now is that we are more socialist now and therefore have far less true freedom of speech We are being warned now about how our freedom of religion is now at stake by the "New Civil Rights". Which is just an extension of socialism's grasp we are under. They have not stopped teaching the same principles. Presentations*–*BYU–Idaho The focus now is just having the rights of freedom of speech and religion. It no longer is just warning of communism or socialism it is warnings about the specific threats to our very freedoms we are going through and will go through because of the socialist changes that have already occur and are continuing to occur. These will jeopardize our religious freedom. LDS.org - Ensign Article - A New Civil Religion They have not changed their position. They have only gotten more specific.