Burst2Flame

I kind of understand the whole "Jesus praying to Himself" thing, but do you believe when Jesus says "I and the Father are one" throughout the bible it means one in purpose or one in nature/essence/being? (Remember Christ pled to the Father for us to be one as He and the Father are one.) What if one were to say that those councils of old were not inspired of God? Is there anywhere in the bible that talks about the Godhead being one ousia and 3 hypostases? It seems like one would need to be a prophet of God to make such a claim. Who are we to define God?

....cricket.....cricket......:)

There seems to be an unending debate on whether God the Father and Jesus Christ are the same physical being or two seperate physical beings. Many mainstream Christians argue that the countless verses in the bible that say Jesus and the Father are one, signify that they are one being. I'm just unclear on how the mainstream Christian view (of them being the same being) interprets John 17 when Jesus offers His intercessory prayer and explains how He is one with the Father by saying: 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 21 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. Any respectful feedback is welcome. Thanks!

Does that seem just? Even if nature itself testifies to the existence of a supreme being, how many people have lived and died without knowing anything about Jesus Christ and much less accept Him as their personal Savior? I too find much comfort in knowing that we have an all knowing, just God who loves us with a perfect love. Thats why the doctrine of a spirit world makes perfect sense to me. Everyone will be taught the fulness of the gospel and will have the oppurtunity to either accept or reject it. 1 Pet 4:6 6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. How can the gospel be preached to the dead if there is no spirit world or at least some kind of holding area in between death and judgement? P.S. Thank you PC for your kindness. I love when two people can have differing beliefs and talk about them peacefully. This isn't the case with many, many Christians but defenatley is with you. Thanks.

A question for any non-LDS out there. I'm just curious as to what mainstream Christianity believes about what happens to those that never heard about Jesus Christ or had a chance to accept Him on earth. Do they go to hell?

LDS also believe that salvation is a gift from God. However that doesn't mean he hands out eternal life to everyone that says they believe in Christ. They must prove they believe in Christ by keeping His commandments or they might end up like the scribes and Pharisees. Matt 15:8-9 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. One of the main reasons we are here on earth is to prove to the Lord that we love Him and want to follow Him. Keeping His commandents spiritually, emotionally, mentally, and physically are the ways we do this. All of these are works, and all very important in being purified. I agree that salvation isn't earned, it's accepted, but you cannot be converted without doing works. True conversion comes to us with the principle taught by John. John 7:17 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. Works of faith must come before one is truly converted and then must also continue on after the conversion.

Well LDS believe that we are all saved from physical death with or without works. However I was under the impression that when mainstream Christianity says they are "saved" they are talking about overcoming spiritual death or sin. Is this not true?

I was always curious as to what non-LDS mean when they say "just believe and be saved." I've been in many discussions with members of protestant religions and they say that works are good, but not necessary for salvation. So I just have a few questions for anyone that holds the "works arent needed" belief. What does believing in Christ and accepting Him as your Savior mean? And how does one do that? Can we be saved without sincerely trying to keep the commandments of the Lord? After one has accepted Christ and been saved, can one fall from grace through sinful actions? What if one man believes in Christ and does works, and one man believes in Christ and is lacking in his works. It is different for them in the judgement?

Personal revelation is where truth is founded from. Spiritual knowledge must be attained by spiritual means. It's impossible to gain a lasting testimony soley based on logical facts, or even seeing miracles. However these things may inspire one to one day obtain a spiritual knowledge that God lives and He has a plan for all of us. No other source can be used to start your journey for truth. If you were to just start your journey by seeking the bible how would you really know the bible is the word of God without asking God if it is? Spiritual knowledge cannot be attained through physical means, nor are physical proofs always constant (ie. the world being flat etc.). Only God's truth is constant. Prayer is a tool He has given us to speak with Him. He loves us more than any of us will ever know. So who better to ask than an all knowing Father (that loves us and wants us to succeed) for spiritual truths?

I've been pondering this question of the fall of Adam for quite a while now and haven't really come to a solid answer. Please help me out here. Moses 3:16-17 16 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, 17 But of the tree of the aknowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest bchoose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I cforbid it, for in the dday thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely edie. In this scripture we see that the Lord commands and forbids them not to partake of the fruit of knwledge of good and evil. However He also commanded them to multiply and replenish the earth. But they could not have children before the fall as it states in 2 Nephi 22 & 23. 22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end. 23 And they would have had no achildren; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no bjoy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no csin. So we see that one of the commandments had to be broken to satisfy the other. Being forced to break a command, I don't quite yet understand how this situation relates to 1 Nephi 3:7 where Nephi tells us that the Lord prepares a way to accomplish all the things which the Lord commands us. Any ideas are welcome. Thanks.