drjackcv

Elder Oaks made very similar statements in both Nov 2010 and Feb 2011 WW Ldrship Training. He clearly suggested that we need to curtail helping people move in order to focus on more important Priesthood purposes. My father-in-law and I own a pick-up truck and a tough old trailer. We and our equipment have been volunteered many times to help folks move. If I don't do this, I'd need to join a health club. I enjoy it. I have moved and will continue to move as many people as anyone in our ward. But... Our mandates as Priesthood holders are 1) turn hearts to the Savior, family (and, I think, friends) 2) lift up hands that hang down and strengthen the feeble knees 3) do all that we do in the name of Jesus Christ -- in His service, for His glory & honor, after His order. I almost never respond to a pulpit call for volunteers to move peoples' stuff. The Church is a rich source of friendships. If my friend asks me, I generally am there to help. My policy is to always ask, "When do the family and friends want to gather and do it? I'll be there." If a person has no family or friends who will help, then this is a wonderful opportunity for reevaluation of their lifestyle, and repentance, and downsizing. And, generally, cleaning. Preach My Gospel mentions helping people move only once that I can find: inviting non-member friends to help us help others. I suppose that is another Priesthood Purpose for moving. It does not endorse the common procedure in our ward of making pulpit calls to move non-members who are being taught by the missionaries. You lift up the hands that hang down by putting something in them to carry -- not by carrying it all for them. You strengthen the feeble knees by getting them up from the couch or computer to do something for themselves, not do it for them. We certainly cannot move people who have trashed a residence to another and think we are acting in the name of Jesus Christ. We are not acting in His service, certainly not for His glory and honor. Elder Bednar said at WWLTraining in 2010, "Everything we do should foster self-reliance." If we fail to do that, then we hurt people, and we will be held accountable. "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto the least of these, my brethren [and sisters], ye have done it unto me." Of course, this reasoning can be used to justify laziness and unkindness by the Priesthood and Relief Society. So can the Atonement. In the end, those who are exalted will be those who, like our Father in heaven and Jesus Christ, are able to be "ministering spirits to all heirs of salvation."

Just for the record I finally took the first step -- I looked up the word solicit. It doesn't mean ask, as I thought. Solicit means "to seek to obtain by persuasion, entreaty or formal application", and 2nd "to petition (a person) persistently; entreat; importune." As usual in the scriptures and official statements of doctrine: precise semantics. Important words, carefully chosen. So, asking "Would you like a blessing?" is not soliciting. On the other hand, forcefully teaching a sufferer about priesthood blessings could well be considered soliciting. So I was wrong on both points...with regards to soliciting blessings. By the way, the word vitally has to do with life and death, and concerned in this context means anxiously engaged. Important words, carefully chosen. Whether or not the Holy Ghost will more than rarely inspire a priesthood holder (or anyone else) to actually act in direct opposition to established policy is still a question in my mind. Of course it can happen -- he commanded Nephi to cut a helpless drunk's head off once. I am confident, however, that a mistake in wording or order, or even the absence of what many would consider crucial components does not invalidate the ordinance. And so, it finally becomes clear, this question about asking is a matter of style, not principle. The ordinance is valid even if imperfectly performed. In matters of style, go with the flow. In matters of principle, stand like a rock. While precision increases the impact and effect of an ordinance, what the Lord requires is the heart and a willing mind. If ye are not one, ye are not mine. (Jesus the Christ)

It is not surprising to know that this increased focus on priesthood blessings is being felt in Salt Lake. I just 5 minutes ago sent an email memo to several of my fellow ward and stake leaders on this subject. I'll quote it here: At the risk of being tedious, I add this which was just pointed out to me: Elder Dallin Oaks, May 1987 Ensign "In a priesthood blessing a servant of the Lord exercises the priesthood, as moved upon by the Holy Ghost, to call upon the powers of heaven for the benefit of the person being blessed. Such blessings are conferred by holders of the Melchizedek Priesthood, which has the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the Church (see D&C 107:18, 67). "There are many kinds of priesthood blessings. As I give various examples, please remember that priesthood blessings are available for all who need them, but they are only given on request." To reiterate, my point is not to downplay the privilege and responsibility of each of us to respond to the voice of the Spirit and, on rare occasions, to solicit the opportunity to give a blessing. I am grateful for [our stake president's counsellor recently] observing that there are great benefits we are missing as a people by failing to call often enough upon the Lord for formal priesthood blessings. We all want to sustain our leaders by unitedly teaching true doctrine and correct principles. In searching and discussing this issue, I find no objections to asking a sufferer, "Have you had a priesthood blessing?" President Kimball asked Henry Eyring that question in the hospital. As we search out the poor and needy to bless them, I doubt that there can any policy against taking the opportunity to teach a sufferer about the Divine love and power that are so often demonstrated through priesthood blessings. This question and this teaching both turn the heart of the faithful toward heaven, but fall short of soliciting, I think. Beyond that...? Although I believe the Lord values charity and integrity far above precision, still "God is in the details", as Elder Neal Maxwell said. As we develop precision in temple and other ordinances, their beauty and power are revealed to us in greater and greater detail; we see the face and learn to know God and Jesus Christ as they are, and become one in them. That's the way it looks from the rock I'm sitting on, and that's my goal

Jezebel2011's experience illustrates a principle that I have learned as a temple ordinance worker: God and His Church lovingly give us wide latitude in our obedience to clear policy -- but there is no better way than the way God lays out -- the strait and narrow. The most expedient way to obtain the greatest benefit from priesthood blessings is by doing it the Lord's way in every particular. In order to stay on the blessed strait and narrow, one has to frequently appear narrow-minded.

One of the counsellors in our stake presidency last week was down and counselled the Melchizedek Priesthood brethren in general session that we are living beneath our privileges if we don't offer blessings to people. There was significant tension in the room, and some gentle requests for clarification. Unfortunately, time ran out before the issue was resolved. I'm pretty sure that what you said is what he meant, but what came over is that we should be asking people if they want blessings, when moved upon by the Spirit, on a fairly frequent basis. Conversations with other stake and local leaders since have made it clear to me that this is their interpretation, and they are prepared to solicit the opportunity to give blessings rather frequently as a result of this counsel. The Handbook 20.6.1 says, "Brethren should administer to the sick at the request of the sick person or of those who are vitally concerned so the blessing will be according to their faith. (see D&C 24:13-14; 42:43-44, 48-52). Melchizedek Priesthood holders who visit hospitals should not solicit opportunities to administer to the sick." 20.8.3 says "Melchizedek Priesthood holders may also give blessings of comfort and counsel to other family members and to others who ask for them." [emphasis mine.] It seems clear that the past and current rule of the Church is explicit: we do not normally offer, solicit or volunteer blessings. Inspired exceptions have historically been, and I expect will continue to be very rare. I can only recall two instances wherein the Savior Himself volunteered blessings unasked: one at the pool of Bethesda, and later blessing the children in 3 Ne 17:5-21. The event in 3 Nephi is really arguable (see v. 5, 8, & 20.) Is there any reason to suppose that our inspiration will be significantly more frequent than the Master's? I anticipate rather the opposite, and don't expect to be so inspired more than 1-4 times in my entire life. We are not living beneath our privileges if we follow the Savior's example, and I don't think our stake president's counsellor was suggesting that we are. Now, if the soliciting mom is sensitive to the needs of others, then her husband must need and approve of this sort of off-policy recognition. If she is not, then it brings C.S. Lewis's comment to mind: “She's the sort of woman who lives for others - you can tell the others by their hunted expression.” Happily, nobody every said good sense or correct doctrine never faileth.

In D&C 88:32, the important word "enjoy" is carefully chosen and repeated twice for emphasis. And they who remain [sons of perdition] shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received. Let's get this straight: the sons of perdition will enjoy their own place. 1. The predators will have freedom to prey on each other without goody-two-shoes Celestials preaching at them all the time. 2. The thrill of the chase 3. The satisfaction of revenge, sifting (threshing, thrashing) one's enemies like wheat, making them human resources, taking what one wants and throwing the rest away. 4. Every man succeeds according to the management of the creature. No broken heart or contrition needed; eternal progression of hubris and pride. 5. Unity is easy: one's self is all. It surely isn't what I want -- but they will enjoy it. Telestial souls are heirs of salvation, saved from this bitterness. The other kingdoms are even better. It is a great plan of happiness for every single one of God's spirit children. What sort of God would come up with a plan wherein even the vicious predators get to enjoy their reward???

Thanks for sharing your thoughts & observations with us, Matthew. I appreciate your refreshing candor. Moses, during his interview with Satan (Mos. 1:12-22), tried several times to dismiss the dragon. At one point old Scratch got mad and commanding, and Moses "began to fear exceedingly, and as he began to fear, he saw the bitterness of hell." Hell, then, would appear to be a place where the big dog hates you, wants and has the power to do you damage. The Prophet Joseph taught that Satan has more power to the extent that he has more knowledge than we. Jos. F. Smith taught that knowledge is different than intelligence (light and truth), which is what you said. But we need to be clear that Satan will still have enough knowledge of truth to have power in Outer darkness, and lots of it. Cain even more. I think you overestimate the number of Telestial souls in the Church. Nephi saw our day, where even the humble followers of Christ do err, being taught by the precepts of men. (I take your caution about Greek and other philosophers seriously.) I look around the world and certainly the Church and see that most people, the vast majority everywhere I've lived (USA, Canada, Samoa, Germany) are honorable. They don't love to lie, although they do it sometimes under duress. Heck, I've done it! Most of them are trying to pay their bills, help others, raise their children in light and truth. Take a careful look around your ward, including the less-active members, and see if you can fill the fingers of one hand with those who practice witchcraft, are pimps or are totally useless, irresponsible liars. There are lots of fornicators sleeping around and shacking up, but that's way different than adultery, which is home wrecking disruption of an existing family. Again, Orson F. Whitney's Apr 1929 conference address comes to mind. In genealogy we consider a common law pairing (living together, shacking up) to be a marriage. The children are sealed without question to their parents. As I understand it, baptism, temple marriage and sealings are celestial ordinances. As far as I know, they have nothing to do with the Terrestrial kingdom. So we have to assume that God considers at least some of these people to be Celestial candidates. That means they kept the law of the Celestial kingdom. Wow! Many people refuse to join the Church because their parents/family object. Sometimes that's just an excuse, but sometimes it's the true reason. How can we fault a man who refuses to break his mother's heart? Is that Cel, Ter or Tel? For myself, I feel for such people, wish them well, and leave them in God's loving hands. My faith can be boiled down to Marion D. Hanks's maxim, "All the rules will be fair, and there will be pleasant surprises along the way." The world is a telestial organization -- and even it is increasing in fits and shocks. The Church is a terrestrial organization -- far better than the world, comprises primarily of Celestial and Terrestrial (righteous) people. The Celestial organization is somewhere else, though there are Celestial souls levening every nation and culture, in and out of the Church of Christ. That's how it looks from the rock I'm sitting on. PS. Is Alma 12:11 the reference you're thinking of?

Thanks for your thought, Matthew. I found this thread googling something, probably with regards to Celestial/Terrestrial Common Denominators. I see that you and I diverge in who we think members of the Church are. McConkie and others have been pretty clear, I thought, that there are many terrestrial souls in the Restored Church who are destined for just that kingdom. Again, keys in the lockers at the temple have no place in a celestial-populated environment, do they? Really, they draw the mind toward Telestial and worse. I was baptized at age 8, but did not consciously make the covenant until I'd been out in the mission field for several months! Unbelievable, but true. Maybe I'm the only one? I'd already been through the temple by then, of course, and then made the baptismal covenant. It boggles the mind. [Telestial organizations decrease and lose Light and Truth; Telestial organizations remain the same; Celestial organizations expand] I'm not at all sure that's true. What are your references for that statement? My speculation is that the Celestial person will be allowed to progress in all directions, 360 degrees on any 3-D tangent. Terrestrials souls will be dammed/damned in some directions, but free to continue progressing in most others (perhaps 270 degrees on any tangent. Telestials will have eternal progression (I postulate) within more limited boundaries, but where God and Christ are they cannot come, worlds without end. (D&C 76:112) In outer darkness, there will be...I have no idea. I suppose that even a snake gets more wily and tough over time. What exactly "unpardonable sin" and "not forgiven...neither in this world, neither in the world to come" mean, I don't know either. In any case, God promises unequivocally that anyone who repents will be forgiven. Then He states unequivocally that some sins will not be forgiven -- and also that there is no progress from one kingdom to the next. Both ideas, of course, are true. The only way I can see to reconcile them is to reject "spiritual evolution". Some souls simply are incapable of repenting, worlds without end. "Gods in embryo" may look (spiritually) more like salamanders than like our heavenly parents, but not be salamanders hoping to evolve into a different species.

The Prophet taught that Enoch's city was terrestrialized, not celestialized, when it was taken up. ("History of Joseph Smith," Deseret News, Vol. V, No. 11; quoted in John Taylor, Mediation and Atonement, p.72-75) The more I study and ponder the Plan of Salvation, the more convinced I am that God is in actual fact omniscient, seeing the end from the beginning in detail, and seeing the heart of every intelligence that He selected out to receive spirits, bodies and probation in this round of Salvation. Apostle Orson F. Whitney's oft quoted conference address of April, 1929 led me to a most fruitful question several years ago: How can God make this unequivocal promise to the "parents of wayward children"? This portion of his talk has been quoted at length by prophets and apostles ever since. It's sound doctrine, and indeed comforting. This life is a time of testing, not spiritual evolution. Learning is a distant second purpose for this probationary state. Probation means proving, testing, demonstrating to myself and to the universe just who I am at the very core, demonstrated primarily by what I believe (lieve = liebe = love. Be-lieve is to be thoroughly in love). I don't think we prove anything to God. I do think that foreknown Terrestrial souls have valuable and joyous parts to play in building the Lord's kingdom on earth. They are righteous, and have several (perhaps many) traits in common with Celestial souls. At least 1) They are honorable, 2) they receive Jesus Christ, 3) they want to be self-reliant and to share with others, 4) they want to know the truth. The first 3 are from latter-day scripture, the 4th is from Aristotle. I believe they need to be honored, welcomed and invited continually to serve in the church, invited to come unto Christ, but not made to feel guilty if they only want to come to be with him, not to be like Him, one in Him. (Look up the word "in" in your college dictionary.) A dear friend came to me the other day crying, literally, about an honorable, congenial mutual friend who has decided to stop attending church. Because my friend wants more than anything to be one in Christ, she can't imagine anything but heartbreak in any kingdom but the Celestial. But there is no heartbreak in the other kingdoms of glory, is there? Only joy, salvation and glory that surpasses all understanding. God and the heavens weep because of our short-term sufferings during this probation, but not because of our final destinations. Our loving Father is happy about what He has set in motion. The Great Plan of Happiness makes the Celestial kingdom happy, the Terrestrial and Telestial kingdoms happy, Outer Darkness happy, and it makes God happy. The free, untrammeled use of agency makes all people happy eventually. That's the Plan that I see through a glass darkly.

Almost everyone, if not "all people" want to be needed more than they want to be needy. They will appreciate the person who can show them how to help others more than the person who says, "How can we help you." -- except in emergencies.

To summarize, the question I think is more profitable to the person in front of us is, "What can you do for the Saviour and his children?"

Good question. I don't think anyone has the answer to that one. My understanding is that "judge not" applies to that kind of judgment more than any other. So my question is, what are the common donominators? What are the characteristics that Celestial and Terrestrial people share? One, I think, is expressed by President Eyring, "First, all people are happier and feel more self-respect when they can provide for themselves and their family and then reach out to take care of others." To me this means that we can count on the person in the pew at church wanting to be self-reliant and to be a contributor. They want to "take care of others", and our job as leaders in the Church is to invite every person to come to Christ and expedite their contributions. The vision that President Eyring shows us, and that which my reading and observations around the world for the past 40 years gives me, is that virtually every person in our church or neighbourhood wants to help out, and appreciates those who invite, nudge, urge and thank them. Put another way, though I forget where I first heard this, "We love those we serve more than we love those who serve us." This is one reason, I think, why we heard the following in Nov 2010 Worldwide Training: ELDER BEDNAR: A caution: In our appropriate desire to be anxiously engaged, we cannot violate the very welfare principles that we are trying to teach. Everything that we do needs to foster self-reliance. We can be too quick to do too much and make people dependent rather than self-reliant. ELDER BALLARD: Very good point. Very good point.

Thanks, Traveler. Pretty cryptic, and only partially true. Jesus is the way. Terrestrial souls love what Jesus does for them, but they don't really seem determined to be like him. They want to be close to the path, but free to wander a bit in the bush. Still, most of my neighbours keep their yards neat and trimmed, their cars clean, try to pay their bills on time and to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Yet, in my ward, many leaders are slow to expect good, honorable members to contribute regularly to the work of the Kingdom. They repeat over and over, "What can we do to help you?" Righteous people want to contribute. President Eyring said in the Apr 2011 conference, "First, all people are happier and feel more self-respect when they can provide for themselves and their family and then reach out to take care of others. First. All. Powerful words. Terrestrial souls don't love to lie and avoid responsibility. So how do we help honorable men and women of the world to be honorable, contributing members in the Kingdom?

Now, the next issue is what sort of part do honorable, intelligent Terrestrial souls desire to play in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Do such people want to be contributors? What common characteristics do they and the Celestial souls share?

At age 61, I'm humbled to say that I just found out that the Lord considers both Terrestrial and Celestial souls to be righteous. Joseph Fielding Smith taught that both will be welcome to live on earth during the Millennium. (Doc. of Salvation, [1954–56], 2:167, 251–52) The Prophet taught that Enoch's city was terrestrialized, not celestialized, when it was taken up. ("History of Joseph Smith," Deseret News, Vol. V, No. 11; quoted in John Taylor, Mediation and Atonement, p.72-75) Like Traveler, I categorized the Terrestrial souls as "wicked" in my theological thinking, for most of my life. Even though I knew that they are honorable. It was a gospel paradox that I did not confront. Like all seeming gospel paradoxes, a great truth was hiding behind it. Wicked refers only to Telestial and Perdition & Sons. Look at D&C 76:132: Liars create victims. Victim is a sister word to wicked. Sorcerers practice wicca. Wicca is a sister word to wicked. Whoremongers are pimps. Pimps are violent and vicious -- both sister words to wicked. The Lord even takes pains to clarify that these are not just people who lie, but who love to lie. In that verse, he clearly defines the wicked. The world is the telestial kingdom. The telestials rule. Spiritual wickedness in high places. The Church is the terrestrial kingdom. Much better than the telestial, but not celestial. We have many celestial souls in the Church, but the Celestial kingdom is somewhere else. We also have many honorable, intelligent, friendly, helpful Terrestrial souls in the Church -- and they are perfectly welcome in the Church and in the Millennial kingdom of Jesus Christ. We also have a few Telestial souls in the Church -- hence keys in the lockers of the temples. We need to honor these honorable men and women, invite all to come unto Christ, but not be critical if they are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus. They love His appearing, and that is enough to justify them in the ultra-magnificent, happy Terrestrial kingdom forever, enjoying the company of other honorable people and the direct administration of Celestial people. In the scriptures of every great religion that I have studied, the doctrine of this life being a testing and proving is fundamental. The exams in any class are probationary, and generally not fun. This is an exam, and every grade is happiness. Even Perdition & Sons will enjoy their own place (D&C 88:32). Now that's a Great Plan of Happiness! What kind of God would promote such a plan? (2 Ne 26:24; 1 Ne 11:22, 23)