Hewitt

Well I am afraid I will not be reading the book of Mormon. I do not believe in God due to total lack of any kind of experience with a God and lack of evidence - I also do not see a need for a God in my life. I will not be reading the book because after having read the bible I do not think that an additional book is going to entirely change my way of thinking. I have only being cherry-picking my fact's in that I was asked to provide evidence there was a gay gene so I did, why would I provide evidence to the contrary in response to that request. The thing about genes and alleles is just mainstream widely accepted scientific consensus, if you reject that then I am afraid you mustn't know much about biology it is absolutely fundamental to it. I have also not reduced my whole argument to a gay gene, I believe there is one and that when it is active it does cause homosexuality, so I do not see what is so absurd and laughable about that. Thing's such as the colour of your hair are determined in the same way, is it absurd and laughable that could be down to a single gene? People are also once again conflating different thing's when I talk about homosexuality I am not referring to lifestyle I am talking about the attractions two members of the same sex can feel towards one another. I am also not a missionary for Homosexual conduct, I just believe that homosexual conduct is not harmful and is not immoral. In regards to my friend he never engaged in homosexual conduct with anyone. His parents just couldn't accept the fact he was Gay, it was not his choice and wasn't going to change. So in effect they did disown him when he told them he was unwilling to have other people try and change him. His parent's did not love him if they did they would have accepted him unconditionally. He could not cope with the pressure and hostility. And I am sorry Vort but you saying I am teaching a gospel of homosexuality and framing it as 'love' is just downright rude. All I am preaching is that someone's sexuality is not the be all and end all, it does not determine whether they are a 'good' person or not. In your religion's grand scheme of thing's is sexuality really that important? Isn't it more important to leave a kind and loving life than to worry about the biological features of those involved. I preach love over anything else because it is the least controversial thing in the universe - hence why I said earlier in the thread it unites people. It is so easy for heterosexual people to say homosexuality is sinful, is wrong, is choice etc. But why don't you consider what it must be like to be homosexual. If you can even slightly empathise then should see why your views can seem unfair, divisive and unloving. “Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation.” Rabindranath Tagore .

Once again I seem to be making another 'last' post. I am sorry but what you have just said shows you have very little understanding of how Biology works. I am no expert but just because a gene is present does not mean it is active. The gay gene is most likely a recessive gene meaning that if a dominant (straight) allele is present then the person will not turn out be homosexual which explains why the majority of people are heterosexual. BBC - GCSE Bitesize: Alleles You may think I come across as showing qualities which are not those which I aspire other people to have. I would say two thing's: I am not perfect and no I do not totally follow what I preach but I try my best to. Secondly I am not hiding behind pretending to be loving. I am here because I am loving, I think your religion and religion in general can come in the way of being totally loving to all, hence why I can come across as trying to prove I am right. I love you all hence why I care so much about trying to share what I think is most important about how to live life. In regards to the evidence just because there is opposing evidence does not mean I am therefore unable to come to a conclusion, and I did not say there was an equal amount of opposing evidence.

Ok this really is the last post. His Parent's could not accept him because they believed the teaching's of the LDS church is the ultimate truth - as the church teaches homosexuality is morally wrong they could accept or tolerate him for the way he was. They put religion before love. What I say is you should put love before anything else, before scripture, before law, before Jesus, before God. That is not to say these thing's are mutually exclusive but I think love should always take precedent over any religious teaching. If you follow the path of love and kindness you can never go wrong.

I think it is time I moved on from this forum now. Thank you to everyone who made me welcome in my short time here. What I would say to you all is that I will carry on living honest to myself. My homosexuality is part of who I am. I will try and live a loving, caring and tolerant life. If in your eyes that is an immoral or sinful life then I make no apologies. One day when one of you has a child who turns out to be homosexual all I ask is that you show them love and understanding, embrace them for who they are please don't try and tell them they are sinful and must change or they will go to hell. Tell them that you love them and you want them to be happy - don't make their life a misery and don't turn them away. I have a huge amount of respect for many of your teaching's about the importance of family. As a member of the British Conservative party I understand the importance of institutions like that for the strength of society, and I would never seek to diminish that. That is why I think it is so important for people to accept other's for how they are (within reason of course), that is why I think you should love people regardless otherwise families fall apart. One of the reason's I was motivated to come to this forum was because my best friend committed suicide recently. He was a gay Mormon he tried to live a straight lifestyle but he couldn't being Gay was part of who he was. Nothing could change that. His family abandoned him, told him he was sinful, God would punish him he must repent and change. He just wanted to live a life of happiness and love, whilst being honest to himself. He wasn't allowed that opportunity and he couldn't cope it all ended with a trip to Beachy Head. Putting all the religious doctrine to one side for a moment, to earn God's favour and get into heaven living a life of love and kindness should be the most important thing if the God you worship is what Christian's say he is. In the bigger picture thing's such as homosexuality are irrelevant, Love and Kindness is of far more value and should more than make up for any perceived negatives of homosexuality. Sorry if I have offended anyone that was not my intent. Love to you all and goodbye.

Ok then: 'Gay gene' survives through generations as female relatives of homosexual men 'have more babies' | Mail Online Could homosexual genes be naturally selected? | Psychology Today BBC NEWS | Health | How homosexuality is 'inherited' Why Gays Don?t Go Extinct | LiveScience Being gay is in the genes, say researchers | Education | guardian.co.uk Research confirms 'gay gene' discovery - News - The Independent http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/opinion/sunday/bruni-gay-wont-go-away-genetic-or-not.html Dr. Deb: Genetics and Sexuality: The Gay Gene Obviously you can all find opposing evidence, and I can find more sources in favour. However as far as I am concerned whether you think being gay or not is a choice, why should it matter? What is important is love, kindness, honesty and tolerance.

Well I am afraid I cannot find the poster who stated Gay's would go to hell, I came across it yesterday using the search function on the forum but I can't seem to find it. I saw the post. If you don't want to believe me fine. Spring Girl said I believe we were all homosexual at one point and some evolved to be straight? I don't know why you got that impression. There is clearly a gay gene which can randomly manifest itself in people hence why the proportion of people that has been homosexual has been pretty much constant throughout history. Leah is conflating being attracted to people and sexual activity. It is a choice whether you act on your desires, but it is not a choice over what you are attracted to. As a straight person can you honestly say that you can just choose not to be attracted at all to the opposite sex? It is not a switch which can be turned on and off when it suit's a person's circumstances. People are going off on tangents about the way I phrased question's and the choice of words etc - in hindsight I could have phrased thing's better. What I would still be interested in finding out is what do you propose for a homosexual? How should they live their life?

I don't promote forcing people to do anything. All I am promoting here is love and tolerance. And I am afraid homosexuality is perfectly normal it is observed in thousands of species. There are millions of homosexuals in the world many many more than are members of this church. Whether you think there is a purpose to homosexuality from God or evolution what is absolute is that it exists. Of course if everyone was homosexual the species would become extinct - so we have evolved for the majority of people to wish to reproduce. But for a species to flourish not everyone has to procreate. There is no such thing as a super-human everyone is programmed in a different way from their appearance, to the way the chemicals in their brain interact. People do not choose who they are attracted to - it is no different from choosing how tall you are or the colour of your hair. What I want to know is what you propose. Should I pretend to be straight and attracted to women, lie get married and have children and be unhappy? Should I be single and live a lonely life? Don't you preach the importance of loving relationships? Should I dedicate my live trying to overcome what my body is biologically incline to feel? I was looking at another thread on this forum and someone said their son was Gay and someone responded they would go to hell because of it. I thought Mormon's do not believe in original sin but I must be wrong. Being Gay is not a choice, if it is fundamentally sinful therefore every gay person born effectively has original sin.

Well I personally think it's a little rude to patronise me on the way I stated my question. It seem's to be a British trait to apologise for thing's before any wrong has been committed. I stated I was an Atheist and a Homosexual at the outset because it has helped to shape my way of thinking. You are correct I do not know a great deal about the LDS church if I did I would not feel the need to question you. I have had discussions of people of other religion's in fact I have them all the time so don't feel to honoured. From my experience actually many people of the religions you have just listed do not believe Homosexuality is sinful and wrong, in fact I know some very religious homosexuals. That is not to say that there are not many people against it there are - I just can't grasp my head around why so many religions preach love and peace yet they say that someone will go to hell for being something that is not their choice. In regards to what other members have said, I am not proposing a political message and am not proposing legislation. I had the fortune to be raised by both a mother and father and I think it is important that people have that. Hence why I am against gay adoption. However I think it is preferable for a child to be brought up by a loving gay couple than by an abusive mother and father. Vort has equated homosexuality to having sex with goats and pedophilia. If you really think that is the case then I have nothing to say - but I hope people of all faiths pray for you. Obviously you have to draw a line somewhere - and I would draw that line when other people begin to get harmed. Eowyn has said that she believes that reproducing is an important part of the religion. If that is the case where do you draw the line? Why not have 30 children? As another poster has said we are not animals so why should we be forced to 'breed.' Of course everyone is right in saying that it is a choice to act on homosexual feeling's no one is being forced. But it is no different for straight people, they choose to act on their feeling's. But how you can criticise a loving and caring relationship I do not understand. In regards to being an atheist it is not due to disagreement with the overall morals most religions teach and it is nothing to do with my homosexuality. I simply do not see enough evidence, I am sure Jesus was a historical figure and he developed a very powerful philosophy. However that is where I stop believing the Bible for me is just a fictional book, no different from a Greek myth in terms of how the story was developed. I see a clear path for my life without a God, I do not feel the need for one. I see the importance of love and kindness - they are vital for a strong society. I often have religious people say how can you go through life thinking it has no purpose and meaning. Whilst it sound's like a paradox I find meaning and purpose from my lack of meaning and purpose. It mean's I have a clean slate and that I have the freedom to make the most of my life and to make it worthwhile.

Hi everyone - this is my first post here and it is nice to meet everyone. I hope I have placed this in the right subforum. I come here as a Homosexual Atheist who has a strong interest in Humanity and all religion. Regardless of what I am about to say I am always in favour of the right for people to follow their religion. I have a few questions for everyone here... 1. Despite being an Atheist I have an extremely strong belief in the importance of Love, Kindness and forgiveness. I only have one life that is why it is so important I make the most of it and live the most kind and fulfilling life possible. As a Homosexual I can assure everyone here that it is not a choice. I will not go into the scientific proof but what I can say is that I am attracted to other men in the same way in which straight men are attracted to women I can't help it and to say otherwise would be lying. With this is mind I would be unhappy if I had to live my life pretending to be something I am not, it is important to me to be genuine and honest. That brings me to the point that baffles me - homosexuality does not harm anyone, any perceptions that it is a bad thing are entirely a result of culture and social attitudes. Surely any loving person would embrace and accept other people for being who they are, surely a loving person would wish other's to be happy and not have to live in misery because they have to conform to other people's opinions. 2. The second question I would like to ask is why do you need God/ Jesus/ Joseph Smith? Shouldn't people just be honest and kind because that is the right thing to do, not because they fear punishment. I have no issue with things such as not consuming caffeine and alcohol those are simple lifestyle choices - but what I do not understand is why people conform to this because they fear punishment. Why would you worship a God you fear? Surely you would get more inspiration from a positive God at least who is merciful and forgives? What I say and what I preach is love. Love people for who they are, do good things not to please or satisfy someone else do them because it satisfies you. Live a good life because it's your only one and you want to make it worthwhile. Forget the religion for a second do you really need that to be a good person? Really? While most of you are steadfast in your views and I respect that, all I ask people take away is make your life worthwhile, don't create barriers break them down, embrace others don't turn them away. The one thing that unites people is not God, not Jesus, not a book, not rules it is Love.