etaks10

I think you are pretty much right on. there are many quotes from prophets and apastles regarding the life of animals and how they should be treated. In the same light of why we shouldn't eat meat, only in times of need, we should also be aware of how animals are treated when drinking milk and eating eggs and so on. Great post :)

"For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward. "Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness; "For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward. "But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned" (D&C 58:26-29). simply put, we must seek to do what is right without always being told what to do. Also there have been many talks regarding the eating of meat and the word of wisdom in the last 20 years saying that we should eat meat sparingly. Sparingly as describe in D&C and the Bible is to be used only when necessary to save life as discussed. In the same line of reasoning as you put it one may say that baptism is not necessary because it is not explicitly described in method when spoken about. the lack of complete explanation does not negate the rest of the revelations. With that said I do appreciate talking with you and always appreciate a good discussion. I wish you well and God bless.

"So, unless your name is Thomas S Monson" what about if their names were Joseph smith, Lorenzo Snow, or George Q. Cannon to name a few who all taught what i have presented to you. How many prophets and apostles will have to say it before people will believe it? And i am not claiming that it is right for everyone, obviously there may be exceptions, just like many commandments, but it is the general rule. No we may not always know why we are given commandments, as pointed out in the blog you quoted, but that is no reason not to follow them. We should follow the commandments as currently presented unless otherwise advised by church leaders. If you have such a statement about the discontinuing of the word of wisdom regarding meat I would love to see it.

I appreciate your ideas on accountability and personal revelation and i agree. As with any teaching one must seek to understand it and live it and it will bless their lives. At the same instance truth is truth, and i simply aim to show the truth of this teaching. if you disagree with this principle of abstaining from meat i simply want to know why.

True, it is Mr. Nibley's observation of what what sparingly means. But, you skipped over the more important parts of the post and those are the scriptures themselves. Here they are again JST Gen. 9:11 And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands. D&C 49:21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need. D&C 89:15 And these(animals) hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger. How do you interpret these scriptures? Here is another opinion on the matter to back up the words of Hugh Nibley. [President Lorenzo Snow] introduced the subject of the Word of Wisdom, expressing the opinion that it was violated as much or more in the improper use of meat as in other things, and thought the time was near at hand when the Latter-day Saints should be taught to refrain from meat eating and the shedding of animal blood. -History of the Church Journal

Yup i agree with that. I think we disagree on what the correct principles are. I think the basic principle is only eat meat to preserve or save life as in times of famine as discussed before. When do you think it's appropriate to eat meat?

Sparingly Explained Again, sparing is a good word. It means "sparing Gods creatures." It is to be used with thanksgiving and not with gluttony, which is one of the national weaknesses. You have a right to meat, according to the 49th section of the Doctrine and Covenants. The family who needs a deer to get through the winter have a right to that. The Lord will not deny them, but He is also pleased with those who forbear. They can eat meat only in times of starvation, winter, cold, famine. "Starve" means to die of cold as well as of famine. Hugh Nibley. Here are a few more quotes and scriptures to elaborate a little more. JST Gen. 9:11 And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands. D&C 49:21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need. D&C 89:15 And these(animals) hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger. In summary, sparingly is to spare the animal unless needed to save life.

Where did this number come from for approved amount of meat?

Your right, Lds vegetarians and meat eaters need to be careful not to be judgmental. But what we are talking about here are simple gospel principles. Was Joseph being judgmental when he wrote it? How about when he asked others to be baptized in the church, or to keep the commandments? The principal of sparing the life of animals and abstaining from meat will bless the lives of the members in many ways just as all of Gods teachings. There is no more reason to try to avoid this teaching by making statements like that.

I do think that is interesting with the comma being gone in the early version of the doctrine and covenants, however in context with other scriptures that i will point out i still think that my point of view stands. If you continue down to verses 14 and 15 in section 89 it says, 14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth; 15 And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger. It seems to me that again the lord restates his point of when it is appropriate to eat meat. Also in section 49 you point out that the lord warns against those who forbid to abstain from meats. This verse must also be taken in context. Yes, no man should forbid to abstain from meats completely, but should be eaten within the guidelines the lord has set as pointed out in the verses 14 and 15. As you read further down in verse 21 in section 49 it reads, 21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need. Need is the keyword here. When do we need meat? In times of famine and excess hunger. In the footnote 21a it references this verse. JST Gen. 9:11 And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands. In quick summary, We can eat meat and the lord has blessed us with that ability and resource. But, as in many of the lords commandments he has set clear guidelines for when and how we should follow them. In this case again, only when we truly need them.

I stumbled upon this thread while searching about the lds cattle ranc. I am an active lds member and also a vegetarian. While i cant speak much about the ranch or its necessity I can say that yes the scriptures teach an almost fully vegetarian lifestyle. The word of wisdom is pretty clear on this when speaking about when to eat meat. While the interpretation that those in Josephs time shouldn't eat it in the summer because the meat would go bad is clever, i don't think its true. I believe the only time to eat meat is when it becomes a necessity to survive but at no other time, here are just some quotes to support my beliefs. [Lorenzo Snow] was convinced that the killing of animals when unnecessary was wrong and sinful, and that it was not right to neglect one part of the Word of Wisdom and be too strenuous in regard to other parts. -History of the Church Journal We are told that swine’s flesh is not good, and that we should dispense with it; and we are told that flesh of any kind is not suitable to man in the summer time, and ought to be eaten sparingly in the winter. -George Q. Cannon Naturally in times of famine the flesh of animals was perhaps a necessity, but in my judgment when the Millennium reaches us, we will live above the need of killing dumb innocent animals and eating them. If we will take this stand in my judgment we may live longer. -Joseph Fielding Smith You have a right to meat, according to the 49th section of the Doctrine and Covenants. The family who needs a deer to get through the winter have a right to that. The Lord will not deny them, but He is also pleased with those who forbear. They can eat meat only in times of starvation, winter, cold, famine. -Hugh W. Nibley