Gunar

Sounds like you're full of prejudice. BTW, I'm always interested in honest discussions, not only about the LDS church.

At first once, I would like to apologize that I was not here for a long time. I had problems of a physical kind which are in an indirect connection with the church. I am on the way of the recovery now because I have taken a decision. As of yesterday I am no more a member of the church. And I feel good with this decision. I have a cousin, a former member of the church which I will marry. She is transsexual and I think some already know her here. Therefore I think; it would be the best if would ban by the Admin. Or is anybody interested here in an honest discussion about history and doctrines of the church? I do not think so.

I have fasted and prayed. Read in the Holy Scriptures, and was active. NO ANSWER came! Not one also no "burning bossom" and also no "good feeling"; nothing. Nothing at all. Either I am deaf or God does not exist!

About the first vision and its attendant circumstances I have investigated two years. I can say therefore certainly that they is lied here. Did you e.g. know that there are four different versions of the first vision? Everyone written by JS or dictated by him to his secretary Clayton. Or, that Smith to 1828 went to the church of the Metodists? Where God had cleared him up allegedly and this, about the badness of the churches anyway. His mother in a letter to her brother or, that but the book of Mormon; not but the first vision mentioned? All arbitrary indications and proof added up, devoted my verdict!

I say something and it does not correspond to the truth; it is either a mistake, a misunderstanding, or a lie. If the apologists of the church tells about Joseph Smith one statement, however something else; and this despite the crushing evidence; either they have been mistaken, either understood a little wrongly or simply lied. Facts are facts and these can not be argued away! You asked why this is so important. Well, it is not the single umptieth case where something else was said. I had taken this only as an example. There is a proverb in Germany which one rhymes in German. It is: One does not think who lies once "! Also if he speaks the truth a thousand times "! In German "Wer einmal lügt, dem glaubt man nicht! Auch, wenn er tausendmal die Wahrheit spricht"! And what concerns the topic complex "first vision" alone, is there many statements which are not coherent in themselves. Only you can judge this. I do not know all facts.

I'm tired of praying, because i didn't receive an answer through the Holy Ghost from God.

I have heard the same arguments of members again and again: Pray, follow the rules and God will give you wisdom. I prayed, followed the rules 100% (after my understanding); but I got wisdom neither from God nor answers of God. When I spoke with the home teachers, one of them thought I would not have had enough faith. Therefore everything my fault? I went to the internet pages of FAIR and Farms, and the feeling to be taken be pissed off. Because facts became consciously different interprate so that they matched again. An example: Joseph Smith said in History of The Church; that a revival movement took place (according to Smith in spring 1820) in HIS RESIDENTIAL AREA. FAIR says now that this revivalist movement took place in the neighboring town. The newspapers of the area only only reported of a revivalist movement between winter 1823 and spring 1824. And this one took place in the place of residence of Smith Himself has FAIR either been mistaken or lied consciously with that. And with such questions I have often struggle. I would not like to leave the church; however, this has to have to leave feeling, her. To remain faithful to myself.

But I'm afraid of, what I might find out. I don't wanna leave the church. Perhaps it is better to stop it now?

With all due respect, Pam, but I don't wanna talk about it yet. But these are questions of basic importance. Questions, which arose from it what I have had read on the Internet in photocopies of books like Church History or Journal of Discourses.

I struggle with personal Problems and some church doctrines. And things I have had read at the Internet about the "dark side" of the church.

At the moment, I am standing before the question whether I shall stay in the church, or leave the church? No easy question and also prayers do not help (at least me) at it much. I still remain I in the church to which church because I would not know shall go ( or, whether I at all still believe in God ). I still stay in the church although I do not believe everything any more which is told to me.

I am Gunar and live in a little village in Schleswig-Holstein. I am a member of the church and go just through very difficult times. I must find something out about me and the church and am afraid of the answer. I am a 61 years old, single and love good German cooking meal.