Tsuzuki

Prayer, meditation, gnosis, and charity, among others, are all things that can be directly experienced. Would this make them secular or religious? This is an attempt to put everyone on the same page, so that the real discussion can begin, instead of having everyone talk past each other.

Sometimes. If it gives me an advantage to believe it, I believe it. What is the difference between secular and religious faith? It is just as wrong to base your beliefs on faith as it is to deny faith. One's beliefs should be based on reason, and sustained by faith, keeping into account that not everything is known, and having faith that there is more to be understood. As far as the supernatural is concerned, if it is not a hoax, it is simply a natural phenomenon whose conditions or laws are not fully understood. Even if God does exist, He is not supernatural.And paradigms were meant to be shattered and dissected.

I doubt that anyone is a complete atheist, if atheism is described as the negation of religion. As I said, there's more to religion than God. There are no doubt a number of things that you have faith in. One thing you seem to have faith in is atheism. I share some of that faith, but not as much as you. I do, actually.

I don't deny that atheism is held religiously. What I am saying is that it shouldn't be that way, and it's not healthy.

There is more to religion than God(s), and I can prove that the ideas found in Mormonism, Catholicism, Taoism, and Buddhism (the religions I am most familiar with) have enriched my life and continue to do so. Atheism offers a healthy skepticism, but I fear for its future, as it does very poorly by itself.

Turning atheism into a religion is about the stupidest thing in the world. It makes a mockery of reason by treating it like faith. Give me agnosticism over atheism any day.

I'm about 2/3 of the way done, and I posted the link to what I have so far, but though it's technically out of print, you can still buy the book in stores until they run out. The Amazom.com marketplace has three copies for about $10 each.There's a book with the same title and author from Kessinger Publishing, but it's actually a different book. Look for the one from Weiser Books. No, but some of his students started their own movements. His own heart belonged to the Catholic Church, and he reconciled with it before his death.

I guess that depends on your definition.In any event, it's still an excellent book. And you can read it for free if you want.

What's the point of ontology, again? Didn't it coexists with such ideas as primal atoms? We already smashed the later, yet ontology still remains. Why?

The Great Secret: or Occultism Unveiled, by Eliphas Levi http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0877289387/ This is primarily a book on Christian occultism, but its scope is such that it is also destined to be recognized as one of the great books of human civilization... if it's read, that is. It is unfortunate that many of the world's greatest books get lost in obscurity. This book was written over a hundred years ago, but was only relatively recently translated to English from the original French. This book is in fact parts two and three from the trilogy, part one having been published as "The Book of Splendours". The whole trilogy stands as Eliphas Levi's last testament to his closest disciples, though in my opinion, parts two and three stand on their own as the greater part of the work. Latter-day saints should find many things in this book that resonate with their own faith. The book is in the public domain, and I am in the process of converting it to electronic form here. You can find the original French here. Excerpt:

http://www.librarything.com/ From the about page:

"et lux in tenebris lucet et tenebrae eam non conprehenderunt" - John 1:5

Aha, I thought your name looked familiar. Welcome Tsuzuki!! :) M. Cool. Thanks.

Thanks. I just started a blog here, too.

Greetings. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, though I am also a student of most of the world's religions, including Catholicism, Gnosticism, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, and pretty much anything else you could mention. I also follow a philosophy known as "paradigm piracy", where beliefs themselves are seen as tools. I greatly identify with this statement by Brigham Young: <blockquote>"It was the occupation of Jesus Christ and his Apostles to propagate the Gospel of salvation and the principles of eternal life to the world, and it is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error. Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their elder brother, being at their head,) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation, to the Gospel we preach, to mechanism of every kind, to the sciences, and to philosophy, wherever it may be found in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, and bring it to Zion. The people upon this earth have a great many errors, and they have also a great many truths. This statement is not only true of the nations termed civilized--those who profess to worship the true God, but is equally applicable to pagans of all countries, for in their religious rights and ceremonies may be found a great many truths which we will also gather home to Zion. All truth is for the salvation of the children of men--for their benefit and learning--for their furtherance in the principles of divine knowledge; and divine knowledge is any matter of fact--truth; and all truth pertains to divinity." - Journal of Discourses 7:283-284</blockquote> I am also a practitioner of chaos magic, which is an "empty-handed" (without props or tools) form of magic that draws on as many sources as the practitioner cares to choose from. The emphasis in chaos magic is on technique and what gets results. In many respects, chaos magic is the practical application of the philosophy of paradigm piracy. Some more things about me: I am currently attending school as a psychology major. I am engaged to a wonderful Catholic woman, who I hope to marry once I finish school. I am active in Japanese anime/manga fandom. I am a regular poster at the message board for the LDS focussed, Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research (FAIR). http://www.fairboards.org/ Anyway, see you around the boards. :)