simpledays

Spot on Just_A_Guy - it does sound like local leaders aren't told how to handle it, therefore all the uncertainty. In Kelli's case either she asked or the Bishop unprompted told her. In legal parlance, a person subject to legal "discipline" has the standard Miranda protections and thus knows there will be a record of what they say kept. In the Church, doesn't sound like a similar concept exists and it is up to a Bishop to either think to tell a member or have the member ask and then stumble around trying to figure it out. None of this addresses my point, though, about what the Church is going to do if any of these records ever gets out into the public domain. Saying it can't happen doesn't cut it, IMHO. If someone has committed a crime that endangers other members, the judicial system will also be involved, and thus no need for a church record as well if the concern is other member's safety. If it's an affair, well then, why write all that down and risk exposing members somewhere down the road. That will really destroy lives.

But for every sin Neurotypical just named above, there would be a public legal record attached to it as it constitutes a crime - rape, pedophilia, fraud. Are we equating an affair to those crimes? Public records for rape, pedophilia and fraud aren't difficult to access and fall into a cross-over area between a moral sin and a legal infraction. In Kelli's case, i.e. an affair (which is not uncommon in today's world) does not constitute either (a) an on-going moral safety concern for other members to be protected against or (b) a crime. And I'd hazard to guess that the vast majority of recorded confessions do not constitute crimes or reasons to protect other members, but are more generally representative of, plain and simple, human frailty and weakness. It's those members, who have committed no legal crime yet still have a written record about sensitive moral misgivings that I'm referring to, as their mistakes are only recorded on church records.

I don't often contribute on chat boards but the lawyer in me had to chime in. I've been a member all my life and held many callings, although none as a Bishop. Some of what discussed is completely new to me and I would bet to a lot of members in general. If I understand correctly, contributors have noted that the Church is keeping permanent records of confessions, such that a member's permanent record somewhere in SLC will allow a priesthood holder in authority to access that record years down the road and determine if the member was subject to discipline and why. I am assuming all these records are electronic. So, a members record will note that he/she was disfellowshipped/excommunicated/etc. for adultery/fornication/same-gender relations/embezzlement/etc. I'm going to make a guess here and assume that for 99% of the cases, the ONLY written record that exists of these infractions is in the church databases. No individual would normally write these things down, and the bulk of them don't rise to the level of legal or judicial involvement. There is well-known joke in data privacy circles about the two best ways to protect extremely sensitive data from every getting into the public domain. Rule 1: Don't write it down Rule 2: Refer to Rule One. A second favorite is A. Don't own a computer and B. If you do, don't turn it on. I don't mean to be blithe about sensitive topics, but isn't it very dangerous to keep such records on members, particularly without their consent or knowledge? I asked two good friends that would have reason to know about these records, and both could only guess that the church keeps these records permanently and both confirmed that members certainly aren't explicitly told this is happening when a council is held and most probably wouldn't know or be happy about it. Here is my thinking. I can't think of any other place in the world that damaging and compromising information of this nature would be kept in electronic form AND be attached to names, addresses, contact emails and phone numbers, family members, etc. If this information was to get into the public domain, the damage to members involved in this disciplinary process would be unimaginable. As someone who has dealt with data security breaches professionally, I can attest that nothing is truly safe from prying eyes forever. Very simply, it's private information only until it's not. If you believe that data breaches of this nature don't happen, look up JP Morgan, US Operations of Personal Management, Target, Ashley Madison and most recently, the Federal Reserve. And those are just public ones. Thousands of cases happen every year where blackmailed victims simply pay up to keep it all out of the press. Both the Church and the individuals in these files would make very ripe targets for hackers if this information was accessed. If this info were accessed and released, the Church would face massive legal claims, tens of thousands of members would face very public humiliation and for what - just so the church knows if some member committed adultery 20 years down the road. Not clear what the church sees to accomplish by compiling a database on members like this.