Andrew777
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Posts posted by Andrew777
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Ah, but it is of their choosing. They choose to let their prophet decide. Are you willing to take away their free agency to choose to allow the prophet to choose who they will marry?
Yes. It's good to see the government treating this in the same way the LDS were treated back in the day when they were still polygamous and marrying litte girls. The rights of those who haven't reached the age of 'responsibility' need to be protected by the government from religions, parents and cult groups.
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I don't know turning to the Bible to look for moral lessons about the treatment of children is really a poor place to go. The Bible tells us to beat our kids with a rod if they are disobedient a number of times in Proverbs, in Deutoronomy we are instructed to stone a child to death if he's disobedient and a drunk, you should be willing to sacrafice your child if God wills it and of course there's all the kids that are mauled to death by bears for mocking a prophet. As for treatment of women and daughters it gets even worse, you can find those verses on your own they are many and plentiful. Yes, there is hordes of biblical pedophelia, polygamy, God instructed rapes and murders of women and children.
Polygamy, pedophelia, abuse of women ---biblically sound? Yes! Morally and ethically? I'd have to say no!
BTW Pedophiles aren't homosexuals or hetrosexuals, they are pedophiles. Homosexuals and hetrosexuals have sex with adults.
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WillowTheWhisp,
Please don't take to heart all of the comments that have been made in this thread. Only you and God know if you have sinned, and it is not for other people to tell you or to judge you. The gospel is about relationships and about people, and the members of the Church are supposed to fellowship each other and become good, supportive friends. Sometimes Church members don't take the gospel seriously, though, and fail to welcome new people into their midst the way they ought to. Who can be blamed for not continuing to attend a church where they don't feel welcome?
(((care)))
DH
Actually you're completely wrong there, it's up to the God-church to judge with the proper authority invested in it. The Bible says only God can judge and if you judge people harshly then you will be judged harshly...but this is only to common everyday members. Those in proper authority positions given by God can judge as if they were God himself as they gain guidance and revelation through their calling.
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Is this the sort of history that the excommunicated historians add their own slant too?
"I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the Negro. 'Darkies' are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church."
- Joseph Fielding Smith, October 22, 1963
Darkies, eh, in the 60's nonetheless not the 1800's.
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You don't know the difference between Temptation and Transgression and assume that when one is
tempted with homosexual feelings or inclinations that they are sinners. They are not, for the church has
told us that if we have homosexual inclinations and feelings but do not act upon them, then we have not
committed any transgression that would warrant church discipline. For church discipline only applies to
those who give into the temptation of those feelings. It does not apply to those who don't act upon
their inclinations. So you need to get your facts right
Jesus said that even if you think the wrong thoughts, you've commited sins. I had this explained to me as he set the bar higher so that we are to not just commit the act of breaking the law of chastity but to be ever vigilant about even thinking about breaking it or breaking any of the churches other commandments. My personal belief is that Jesus was saying that we need to change our thinking before our acts will follow and that he was warning against our thoughts and emotions leading us to sin. The church members I talked to said I was wrong though and that it's just the act of actually thinking that causes the sin.
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UTC,
In case you haven't noticed, it seems that some always try to make light of sacred things. Don't know why...they must think they are being cute or something...
It's because some people have a sense of humour, sometimes even about their own beliefs and traditions.
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Of course there is alway that matter of accidently walking into a room and finding two guys with their hands on top the head of a third guy.
Ha, that was great. One of the times that they did this to me, I opened my eyes to take a quick peak around and the guy standing directly in front of me had his fly undone.
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Homosexuals are OK Morningstar as long as they do everything in their power to not act, think or feel as if they are homosexuals.
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What does happen to hemaphrodites and what is the purpouse to their birth? I know some hindus consider them special spiritual people.
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I think what you just said, it's beautiful and is right. He's even there through all the anger. Thanks for your post. :)
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I find that people leave for many reasons. Sometimes it's because of the attitudes of members they deal with (man is fallible and this applies to any organization).
This is somewhat true it applies at different levels in orginizations, in the LDS church it's institutionalized. Look I have three callings and clean the church every week (even though I'm unemployed and my family supports me so I have all the time in the world) that guy over there refused his one! Even if the guy over there works 70 hours a week to support his wife and family and can't make time for home teaching and a bunch of callings.
There are churches out there that have a few bad apples but actually practice what they preach, Christ said the greatest commandment is love and that we are not to judge each other over sin (temple recommend interviews). He died for all of us to reach the 'highest' level of exaltation not an elect few that can go inside a man made building because their sins are somehow lesser then the rest of humanity's sins.
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Is the child support and alimony question about following the 'law of the land' or do they actually think family courts hand down fair judgements from God or some such thing?
Do they ask the mothers a question like, "Do you do everything you can to make it easy for the father of your children to see his children?", probably not, eh?
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So hell it is then for mormons?
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gwen and probably susie (she can say if not so
) thank canuck for his useful moderation of this post. -
On this site I have been condemned to hell by one of your own.
I am wanting to learn more of why LDS believe they way they do......I am very curious.
In your belief system will Mormons go to hell for believing the way they do?
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I don't see it as voting against homosexuality because of our religion, but because of our culture.
let me explain: If there is an election to allow gay unions and it passes, the effects of the election on our religion are very little. we still get to worship as we want, we still get to go to church, and read scriptures, and follow Christ the best we know how. But it does effect our society. the beauty of America is that we get to choose what we want to allow and what we don't want to allow into our society. In Idaho and in Utah (were i live now) the majority of the members of those societies don't want to allow gay unions. so they vote against it. It is the same in Wyoming (were i am from) but the reasons are completely different.
As far as my religion goes, I am content to allow consenting adults to do what they want as far as relationships go, that is their eternal right to agency. But, when it comes to how the society that I live in, that my kids grow up in, that I do my dealing day to day in, I prefer not to allow gay unions, that is why I vote against them.
It seems like a fine line, and to some people they may not be able to distinguish the two, but there really is a difference.
What happens when society chooses to disallow mormonism? Oh, wait that already happened. That's not democracy it's mobocracy and no court is going to force churches to perform gay marriages. They may stop people from picketing with "God hates fags" signs and stop those types of people from iniciting and suggesting violence towards gays.
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Back in the day he commanded stuff like that all the time.
When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canannites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger then you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make not covenant with them and show no favor to them' (Deuteronomy 7:1-2).
"'When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself, and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you. Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes" (Deuteronomy 20:10-17).
"'Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not know man intimately, spare for yourselves' (Numbers 31:17-18)."
That's your god right?
You do realize that this is what people did back then and how they waged war, as terrible to us modern western people as it is.
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I find it fascinating that so many people have unquestioning belief in something that can only be verified through their own personal experience of receiving thoughts and feelings, and furthermore that some people go so far as to criticize others for not having the same subjective experiences (I'm not talking about you, relax tom) or drawing the same conclusions from them. In extreme cases, people will even die and kill for these beliefs.There have been a multitude of religions in this world throughout history and one can even track the change of religions to fit the need of the cultures at the time. People nowdays have no trouble dismissing ancient religions and even current ones they don't agree with as mythology and superstition, but when I take it one logical step farther and dismiss their beliefs just as easily, I am met with much hostility, especially here in America. People are more than willing to believe that everyone else is capable of fooling themselves into believing something is true, but when it comes to their own beliefs they are sure that it could not possibly be false.Atheists usually get pretty upset when you make fun of their beliefs too and tell them that what they think isn't true. They get pretty hostile, sometimes you even just have to mention to an atheist that you're a theist and they get hostile, like it's an affront to their very existence. Atheists have also fought over beliefs and philosophies, they also seem to be really into subjective human experiences and culture as basis for forming moral and philosophical codes. Yes, atheists have fought, murdered and died for those beliefs.
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Yep, because in Catholisim the Pope is God so to speak and given the keys to heaven and hell and whatever he says it becomes dogma But purgatory was preached all these years.
The bible becomes a second athority to them...Tradition and the pope are above God's word. Like many faiths our their.
If ragging on Mormons makes people upset here you'll rag on Catholics instead and mis-characterize them, great! It's a sin to slander Mormons or Catholics. You know every Christian doesn't have to believe exactly as you do and follow your particular brand of Christianity to be saved. This is a big difference in Mormonism and some forms of Christianity. Christ died for all of us, not just his tiny group of chosen elite and elect!
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Its an old conversation that goes round and round. Its a semantic issue. Every Christian will agree that we must become perfect, at one with God, and sit with Him in His throne as joint heirs with Christ. Some just don't like the term god, thats all.
I agree with you there, I think we can become like God, or as God, or one with God or perfect and immortal, or entirely sanctified, or whatever you want to call it but it still means God the Father will always be the Father and Jesus will always be the one responsible for the atonement that allows us to become like God. They will always be worthy of worship.
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Orthodox churches are the only ones Roman Catholics recognize as actually being churches and having proper authority even though they consider that authority "valid but illicit". Other churches are religious groups and not actually churches according to Roman Catholic doctrine they are not part of Christ's church, neither do they have any authority to forgive sins by taking confession or to administer the Eucharist. Roman Catholics are the largest Christian group in the world.
Most Christians I've talked to believe Mormons are going to hell, even though like you said we've repented, received baptism, ect... just as they have. Many Christian groups fight over things like --is baptism necessary for salvation, is speaking in tounges necessary to prove being filled with the holy spirit, what is the exact nature of the trinity, and on and on, they're hardly one unified force and many believe they have the right doctrine that will send them to Heaven and others have the wrong doctrine that is going to send them to hell. If they were in agreement there would only be one church.
As for getting into the celestial kingdom. Yes, people that haven't heard the gospel and learned about the LDS church can get into the celestial kingdom, as well as those that haven't reached the age of accountability. Those people that have heard the gospel, understood it yet wouldn't accept it won't be able to go to the celestial kingdom but they won't go to hell. In the end it's all going to be about how much a person was willing to keep God's commandments and honestly seek the truth, it will be up to God and the individual.
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I didn't experience this difficulty at the Stand in the Gap rally, in Washington DC, Oct. 1997. Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical, Black, White, Asian, Native American, Messianic Jewish, Baptist, Nondenominational, etc.--all united in repentance before a holy God, convinced of our brotherhood.
This kind of thing is the exception rather then the rule and only works if it's kept very inoffensive to anyone's doctrines. If they all agreed they would be one church not hundreds. We have similar events here on Easter. There are still many that believe they're the only right ones. I worked at a Christian homeless shelter with employees of many different Christian groups, they would debate and proclaim each other to be following the doctrines of demons using the bible to 'reproof' each other. The liked to pick on the Roman Catholic girl the most, she was going straight to hell for being a papist, it certainly wasn't a brotherhood of happy Christians all working in tandem.
As PC said only cults think they’re the only ones going to heaven, or the only ones in the true church. (This is partly why LDS get lumped in as a cult, because you make an exclusive claim to be the only true church.) Jesus saves people, it is not which denomination they belong to on earth, but they belong to His church on earth and in heaven.
Are Roman Catholics a cult?
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Even Martin Luther admitted that an adulterer would be saved in heaven, if he had professed Christ's name.
BTW, did your Church believe in original sin? Most beliefs in it establish that there is always a gulf between us and God that Christ cannot ever fully recover: partially because we are of a different substance than God.
If he professed his name and believed it and was repentant, this is like taking things out of the Journal of Discourses and using it out of context to make things sound like they aren't. There is no Christian I have ever met that has told me salvation is dependent on saying a couple words, this is taking the idea to a silly extreme.
As far as I know most Christian faiths teach that Christ's death and resurrection was enough to atone for any sin, including original sin, otherwise everyone would be in hell.
The church I attended saw original sin as being a matter of having been born in a fallen state unable to achieve salvation without Christ's atonement. Humanity became spiritually 'dead' after Adam and Eve ate from the tree in the Garden of Eden. Those who are too young, mentally incapable or didn't have a chance to hear the gospel will not be judged on the same level. No matter how good you act it doesn't make a difference if you don't have faith and without God's grace. God extends his grace to all people which then allows them to accept it or not and exercise their free will. Without the atonement man would not be able to exercise their free will at all and would be completely fallen, Christ died for all not just a group of predestined elect. The grace that is extended to all humanity also takes us just enough out of our fallen state to exercise our free will to accept or reject it. After making the choice to accept God you have to continue believing and trying to live a Christ-like life, if you sin and fall into temptation the holy spirit will no longer keep guiding you as you harden yourself to it's guidance and you will eventually lose your faith, then you will fall into apostasy and lose your salvation.
) thank canuck for his useful moderation of this post.
Child Abuse? - Are some supporting abuse?
in General Discussion
Posted
Andrew: Insulting other posters here is not acceptable. Take a break.
Seraphim