Kevinb93

I should add that I don't have any leading as to what the original language of man was. I don't know how Ogam was introduced. I just know that it was. KB

IMO, the Jaredites were Sumerian in origin and at the time of the tower of Babel, they traveled across the Indus Valley ending up in China. There they intermixed with the Chinese and traveled over to the new world. It is possible that Ogam is the original language of man - before God confounded the language. They were however, part Chinese, which gives us the Chinese ideograms and the Afro-Asian Olmec megalith heads. This is of course IMO. I'll throw it in - you can throw it back out if you choose. KB

That's cool. Skepticism is to be expected. I suppose more important than everyone agreeing is that the information was given and everyone has their agency to make up their own minds. That's what we're all about, right? No hard feelings here.

Uh, I didn't choose to be His mouth piece. Maybe you don't understand how the Spirit works. Maybe I was prompted to say that because I would, and I would put myself out there for the world, and even snowy here, to ridicule. Try walking in my shoes for a day.......

How I got here is quite simple. I'm an administrator for the Cumorah Teams site and this site came up as one of the referrers. I was curious. I haven't ever heard what people think about my testimony. Then I wanted to answer some of the questions that were raised here. Blessed, I don't have any idea if I know you or not - I don't know your name.... It has been interesting to read the progression of everyone's thoughts and reasoning. I think it's great. It's also hard for me to hear. At the same time, I've learned a lot about the way perceptions work and what information is more important to add validity to it. Idacat raises a lot of important questions. The scientific integrity is very important. How she raises them is less than admirable.... To question is one thing, to be condescending and rude is another. Most people on here are very articulate and ask important questions, politely. To answer a few lingering questions; the transliteration is being done into Latin because it is an easier alphabet to use, then over to Hebrew. Then it goes off to 3 different linguists for decipherment. The only reason to transfer to Latin is it's an easy alphabet to use. The integrity of the site is important - CRUCIAL. We have NOT done any digging. NONE We have been trying to get into a cave. There is no site. When I dug up the tablet, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS GOING TO FIND! We know it isn't a scientific find. Yes the tablet is out of context scientifically. The Holy Spirit said dig and I did. I was as shocked as anyone else at what I found. That's the whole point! This wasn't supposed to be something that man scientifically produced! God wanted this to be found on HIS terms, not ours! As for future expeditions, think of us as Neil’s hired hands. If you were in Mexico and in charge of a dig, you would have locals doing the grunt work. That's exactly what we are doing for him - out of love and respect for him and a belief in the cause. We pay our own way; take our own time off of work. If we ever get into this cave or any other, we already have protocol. We secure the entrance and bring in Neil. He makes all of the decisions. We aren't supposed to touch the walls of the caves or even step on the dirt, so as to not compromise the integrity of the site. We aren't imbeciles. Neil isn't a loon. He DOES have a total understanding of archeological protocol. No willy nilly here.... Although I would have to say that he has very admirable persistence. As for NY, come on..... Are you kidding me? You really think that the majestic cities talked about in the BOM wouldn't stand the test of time? You really think that they were talking about mound builders? If you really want to put this baby to rest, then look up what Joseph Smith said about Stevens and Catherwood........... As for Neil appearing on UFO sites and out of the mainstream stuff, he finds it interesting. I find it very admirable that he would look at the world outside of the box, knowing that it puts his reputation on the line. As a scientist he is curious. I wish that more scientists would be willing to do that. Too often it seems that egos get in the way....... I'm not trying to infiltrate your forum. I just wanted the discussion to be based on first hand info instead of hear say. I'm always happy to answer more questions.......

Ah, nope. I live in Independence Missouri.

We are planning on it. We meet every other Thursday and fast every Thursday as a group. We aren't taking any of this lightly. We have been preparing ourselves as best we can. We each have had different experiences that have led us to this work. Each of us feels the Spirit calling us to this place at this time. Only Neil is formally educated in archeology, but that's what’s great about the Lord. He uses the uneducated - the Shepard or the inquisitive 14 year old boy. I believe if you put yourself in a position for Him to use you, then He will. It may not happen this year or next, but I have faith that the plates are just around the corner-maybe not by our group, and that is fine. I would be more than happy if they came forth as the Dead Sea scrolls did - just a boy throwing stones into caves. I believe that God will direct whoever finds them, that they would be guided as to what to do with them.

Ok. So I'll try to explain why Cumorah is in Mexico and not N.Y. To start, I'm a member of the COC which enables me to believe that Cumorah is in Mexico. The LDS church has tied themselves to the hill in NY as THE hill, where as the COC has not. Joseph Smith never called the one in NY Cumorah. Others claimed that he said that, but I have found no evidence of it. Therefore, the LDS are tied to NY. They uphold their position that NY is THE hill. They are stuck with it. I'm all about faith. What I love about archeology is the opportunity to prove what is in the bible or bom as true. We shouldn't be afraid of what the outcome of looking for the truth is. Archeology, I believe, will be used to backup the validity of the plates, which will back up the BOM. However, having said that, it makes no sense what so ever that NY is THE hill. Where are all the great cities? They don't exist in America. Mexico is entirely different. FARMS does a lot of work in Mexico. I disagree with them often, but at least they are down there looking. There are many descriptions in the BOM of where Cumorah is located. I believe those are clues. Look up the scriptures that involve Cumorah or the final battle and try to look for all the descriptions. We believe that this hill fits all of those descriptions, and the archeological evidence backs up our theory. I don't need to have any physical evidence that the BOM is true. I know it is through faith. The point of looking isn't for me. It's for the world. If no one is out looking for the plates, how are they ever going to be found? We have found great refuge in the DOC. Sect. 58 6 c-i. Joseph Smith is talking to a group in Jackson County Missouri and says this; [sec 58:6c] for, behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things, for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward. [sec 58:6d] Verily I say, Men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness; for the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. [sec 58:6e] And inasmuch as men do good, they shall in nowise lose their reward. [sec 58:6f] But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned. [sec 58:6g] Who am I that made man, saith the Lord, that will hold him guiltless that obeys not my commandments? [sec 58:6h] Who am I, saith the Lord, that have promised and have not fulfilled? [sec 58:6i] I command and a man obeys not, I revoke and they receive not the blessing; then they say in their hearts, This is not the work of the Lord, for his promises are not fulfilled. But woe unto such, for their reward lurketh beneath, and not from above. This is what we believe we are doing. We don't argue that the plates will come out in God's due time. We whole heartedly agree. We're just trying to put ourselves in a position where He can use us. Amillia is on to something that I believe. That is that we are to know that it exists but the timing isn't quite right yet. Joseph Smith was taken to the hill in NY for four years before he was given the plates to translate. Each year he learned and grew spiritually and then was allowed to take them. I am in no way putting us in the same category as him, being a prophet and all, but I think that the lessons that we have learned and the growth we have experienced is very similar. I believe that the tablet was given to us to give faith to the wavering in the restoration movement. To hold them up until the plates come forth. To give not just my group but all of us who believe in the restoration of Christ's church, hope. Hope that His kingdom is at hand. Belief in the hill in any one area, or even in the BOM isn't what REALLY matters. Christ is. I think about all of those who don't have a relationship with Christ and I don't see how they get through each day. It's for them that don't believe in Him that the BOM was written. It's for them that the plates will come forth - to the convincing of the gentiles and the Jews. We as restorationists, Christ's restored church, already believe. Again, I wouldn't be afraid of BOM archeology. If you truly believe that Joseph was a prophet and he translated plates and called them The Book of Mormon, then archeology should excite you. Even the DNA argument against the BOM is bogus. The sampling that was used is unscientific. I doubt that we will ever be able to prove that the BOM is true through DNA. The way that you test it is such that it just won't be possible. It’s a very complex issue. We live in exciting times........

Ummm.......I'm trying to take the high road here. Sorry that I misspelled a word. You are certainly entitled to your educated opinion. I, personally, am putting my faith in the Lord and where He has led me and not in any "establishment." I'll have to disagree and say that married ogam exists, based on my own personal experiences. Out of my testimony, you chose to criticize my spelling and say that "the grooves are grooves?" It could just as easily be said that it is your opinion that "the grooves are grooves." I'll stick with the person who carries the Spirit with them.

As for now, I don't know of any website that is talking about the stone. It has taken longer than expected to tansliterate the Ogam into latin and then ancient Hebrew. That is almost done now and will be sent off to the linguist for translation. We had sent off a partial transliteration, but some errors were found and new markings as well. Once the linguist-who is not associated with any church and knows nothing of the spiritual aspects of the tablet, gets the full transliteration, it shouldn't take long to decifer. Our website is being done by a friend of mine so a lot of the info isn't on there that we would like. We'll probably hire someone to do it because we have so many resources that we would love to include. My friend is just too busy to get to it in a timely manner. We really rushed to get the site going so that we could get the testimonies out there. Once the tablet is officially done, then we will be presenting it much more. Just kind of in a holding patern until that gets done.

Unfortunately there isn't a whole lot more to tell. As it goes with revelation, if your not there and can't witness first person the nature of the Spirit as it is given, then belief comes with faith. I have learned to be skeptical so I understand people’s skepticism. The best way to give you more is to give you context, so here goes. First off, April 6th this year was a high holy day for the Jews. We felt that it was important so we planned a day of prayer and fasting specifically set aside for the 6th. After a couple rounds of prayer, in which we asked for encouragement among many other things, I said that I was to dig and started digging..... I said that the script was Ogam, though never having seen Ogam before. That's not like me. I don't like saying things unless I am pretty darn sure that I'm right. The Spirit prompted me to say that so that we would not mistake finding the tablet as something that was done by accident. God's planning is amazing..... I carried the tablet down the mountain, making sure to keep it away from my body so that I didn't scratch it. It takes about an hour to hike through the jungle just to get to the clearing. About half way down I realized that I had left everyone else behind, as they were helping Neil. I then came to a spot where the sun penetrated the jungle and I stopped in my tracks as the Spirit overpowered me. I bent over and put my elbows on my knees and began crying. The Spirit was so strong that I couldn't contain myself. (The only other time that has happened to me was at the Kirtland Temple) Some things were then revealed to me. Questions were answered as I thought of them. This is the part of finding the tablet that is hard to explain. With the tablet itself, there is something concrete to put your hands on; the workings of the Spirit are such that you can't. No matter how I try, I don't know that I will ever be able to adequately explain the experience. I then understood why a lot of the things that had happened to our group over the past few years had happened. When I managed to get myself together, I moved further down the trail and when I reached another spot where the sun came through the same series of events occurred, only with different answers to different questions, some personal, some for others. It was pressed on me to tell different people different things and then it was pressed on me to say that “it has started.” Well, that night at our devotions I said what I was supposed to say to some of the members of our group, only I kept back the part about “it has started.” The next day we began our drive home when around noon "It has started" entered my thoughts. As they did, the Spirit once again rested on me to say it. A few minutes later we stopped at a gas station and as I walked to the store the thought again came upon me, and the Spirit again rested very heavily on me to say it. That night when our devotions were finished, I said that I had one more message to give. I wrestled with getting the words to come out of my mouth, but they did. I said that “It has started. Specifically that the coming forth of the plates and the establishment of Zion has started.” The Spirit touched each one of us that was there and it was confirmed by many that what I had said was true. I know that the natural reaction to my whole experience is to be skeptical or to say that we are a bunch of fanatics, but we aren't. I wish I could give everyone a scientific explanation. I can't. I don't have scientific answers, mine are spiritual. I can tell you that Ogam has shown up in America, specifically on a colossal head at La Venta. That's scientific for the tablet. The spiritual is altogether different. It comes down to faith - faith in someone else's statements, someone whom you have never met or heard of. I would have a hard time with it. I know it to be true though. :) Sorry, that's the long answer. Let me know if you have any other questions. Kevin

I was searching and found this forum and this topic which happens to be of great interest to me. I'm the one who wrote the testimony in question. I guess I should first say that I am a priest in the COC/RLDS and will be 30 this year. Secondly, Neil isn't in a wheel chair, though he does have to wear a boot that has metal supports. He gets around really well. He is an expert in Mayan archeology and also a member of the COC. Hill Cumorah is south of Puebla, in the state of Oaxaca. Neil has spent his entire life validating the Book of Mormon through archeology and has just finished writing a book that in great detail goes into the evidence that is there. As for our expeditions, we are a rag tag group of guys. Each of us has different expertise and a strong sense of purpose. It isn't as easy as it sounds. The cave is only around 40 feet off the ground however the incline is 45 degrees and the jungle floor is made up of decomposing leaves and such. When you get to the cliff face, there isn't a flat surface to work from. We have tried many different things-metal ladders bolted to the cliff face and repelling among them. Complicating the problem is that the cave is now sealed shut. In 76 there was an earthquake that caused a large portion of the cliff face to slide off. When it did, it exposed the cave. However, since then, moss has grown from the top and bottom of the cave mouth until it finally sealed itself shut. Well, dried dead moss doesn't sound bad either, but the moss leached lime from the limestone cliff so now it is like concrete. We have tried drilling with power tools but to no avail thus far. As for the Mexican govt., they have whole cities that haven't been excavated yet. They won't take an interest in the hill until the plates come forth. Neil presented the tablet at an archeological convention at Ohio State University where it was affirmed that the markings were indeed writing. We have found large amounts of axes and food implementing tools, all of the things you would expect from a battle site, which dates to Jaredite and Nephite/Lamanite. As for the LDS, they aren't sold on this hill as Cumorah. The thrust of my testimony was spiritual not archeological and our website is very slow to get all the information we want on it, so naturally there are lots of questions. When I was digging and found the tablet, we had just finished a time of prayer and fasting. Neil asked if we were ready to leave, and I said that I was supposed to dig and turned and did just that. It was very surreal. The Spirit works in miraculous ways. :) We all later joked that I looked like a dog when I was digging-thus the many references to digging like a dog. The Spirit had pressed on me the gravity of the situation, so I was digging very fervently with both of my hands and dirt was flying. :) God is wonderful. That He would use me in my imperfect state amazes me. It reaffirms to me that His love is unending. Just think what we could accomplish as a God centered people if we but listen to that still small voice and act on it. My revelation that Zion has started is hard to grasp. Zion isn't going to just one day arrive and we will all be playing harps. Zion has to be worked at. It is a destination that we all should be reaching for. I'll try to explain it the best I can. When either world war broke out, did anyone recognize it? They started out as conflicts between a few that continued to grow until they engulfed the whole of the world, taking many years. Zion too only has to start out with a few believing that it is here. From there it will take the world by storm as more people believe and start living in a Zionic way. It has to start somewhere, and it has. If anyone has any questions I'll be more than happy to respond, or you can email me. I'm not perfect-nor am I a holier than thou. I'm just a guy who is following the direction of the Spirit as best I can. Thanks Kevin Brown