elinz Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Peace@Feb 19 2004, 11:25 AMThe choice is to either use the Bible to climb the mountain, analyze it and go nowhere, or use it for what it has been given to us for....and climb!That was the criticism of the Gnostics.Gnostisicm, like Buddhism, has no directive to make changein the world. It simply states: "This is it, get used to it".That's why what Jesus did was a conscious desire to CHANGEthe world rather than simply observe it. The world did in fact change as a result of his sacrifice, his martyrdom.And, Al Qaeda, in it's strange alien way, is trying to changethe world too. We need to understand that it is a radical wayto cause change, but given the circumstances it's the waythey have chosen.The real question is what happens now?Will we take the lesson as a sign to return to God?Or will we make the martyrs into clowns and go back toour path to increasing liberalism? B) Quote
Guest Starsky Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 I don't think you can change the 'choices' of good and evil. You can change how you view them...but they have always been the same from pre-existence to now and will be the same until the ultimate end of things. As for changing within ourselves...which is the only thing worth changing...that we must all do for ourselves...we can't change others. Not really. Quote
elinz Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 We all bounce back and forth between the extremes of Gnostic indifference and Muslim extremism. To change the world you need to know that the world can be changed. Jesus proved that. The question is always "how best can we make change happen"? (hint: Taking back the media is REAL change) Quote
Guest Starsky Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by elinz@Feb 19 2004, 10:50 AM We all bounce back and forth between the extremes of Gnosticindifference and Muslim extremism.To change the world you need to know that the world can bechanged. Jesus proved that.The question is always "how best can we make change happen"?(hint: Taking back the media is REAL change) Well, if that is what you feel you must do, then it is a valid way to work for you. But I found, after I wrote books that I thought would be earth shaking, that it really only comes back to the individual changing themselves...not others. The Spirit is the only thing I can think of that has the power to change anyone...and then that person has to have the disposition and humilty to be changed.The world 'forces' change....but God works only through agency/choice. Quote
Guest Starsky Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 Matt. 7: 14 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Quote
elinz Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 But what if all the "clues" to the gate were hidden? How many will find the way then? Not many clues on tv. (JoA being the exception) Quote
Guest curvette Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Peace@Feb 19 2004, 11:09 AM Well, if that is what you feel you must do, then it is a valid way to work for you. But I found, after I wrote books that I thought would be earth shaking, that it really only comes back to the individual changing themselves...not others. Are you an author? What topics did you write on? (I love to read) Quote
Guest Starsky Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by elinz@Feb 19 2004, 11:16 AM But what if all the "clues" to the gate were hidden?How many will find the way then?Not many clues on tv. (JoA being the exception) Most definitely they are hidden. Every heard of hidden treasures?D&C 89: 19 19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;Or mysteries of heaven?Luke 8: 10 10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Quote
elinz Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 If the world is not told there are treasures they might never get the clue to search for them. You overestimate the amount of spiritual thinking out there... Quote
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 The reason I think that the Biblical stories are metaphors or myths is that there is no solid evidence for the historical accuracy of the Bible. It makes more sense to me, when reading the Bible, that the stories were written to explain things that the ancient Hebrews did not understand. For example: Where did humans come from? (The Creation) Why do we speak different languages? (The Tower of Babel) Why is there evil in the world? (Satan) Can we be forgiven for our sins? I feel guilty. (Law of Moses...and later, the Atonement) It seems less logical that these things actually happened, because every culture has similar myths, and because these miracle stories contradict everything we know through science. See my other topic on "proofs for the Bible" if anyone has some evidence to present to me. Quote
elinz Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 I tend to agree. Obsession about literal truth goes against the spirit of how these things were written. They should have stuck with parables, at least they are honest in what they do... Quote
Guest TheProudDuck Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 One of the things I love about history is how it sheds light on how all of us struggle with the same questions. The question of whether scripture is to be interpreted literally or metaphorically has been going on at least since St. Augustine's debate with Ambrose of Milan over the six-day Creation account, back in the fifth century. Augustine favored a metaphorical interpretation when the literal interpretation conflicted with scientific or rational understanding. (Actually, it wasn't a conflict with science that Augustine was concerned with, but rather the philosophical objection that an omnipotent God wouldn't have needed six whole days to create the world, as if he were a common day laborer with limits on how much work he could do per day.) But some will say that scientific understanding isn't perfect. That's true, but not helpful to this question. Because religious understanding isn't perfect, either. If science, reasonably and honestly applied, conflicts with a literal interpretation of a scriptural passage (like the one in Joshua that says the sun stood still, which got Galileo into so much trouble), then the metaphorical interpretation should prevail. That way, both the authority of reason and scripture are preserved, rather than having to sacrifice one or the other. Remember that scripture is not the only authority God has provided to reveal Him: The heavens [that is, a portion of the natural world] declare the glory of God. And if our understanding based on reason turns out to be wrong -- well, then, we turn around and interpret the scripture literally again. Quote
Guest Taoist_Saint Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Feb 19 2004, 01:13 PM Augustine favored a metaphorical interpretation when the literal interpretation conflicted with scientific or rational understanding... ...If science, reasonably and honestly applied, conflicts with a literal interpretation of a scriptural passage (like the one in Joshua that says the sun stood still, which got Galileo into so much trouble), then the metaphorical interpretation should prevail. That way, both the authority of reason and scripture are preserved, rather than having to sacrifice one or the other.... Thank you! This is exactly what I was trying to say! Quote
Guest Starsky Posted February 19, 2004 Report Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by elinz@Feb 19 2004, 12:17 PM If the world is not told there are treasures they might neverget the clue to search for them.You overestimate the amount of spiritual thinking out there... No...I just think that it is all playing out just how it was prophesied and that many will have to gain their spiritual stuff after this life. That is why the earth is being dotted with temples. Quote
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