returned

[kevieb]

I can see that i am a bit confusing when i write--i guess it is because trying to condense a lifetime into a few paragraphs is pretty hard.

I'll start with growing up--my step-father was not verbally or physically abusive---he was sexually abusive---but it was covert sexual abuse---but it didn't start until we were older and had figures--he wasn't a pedophile. I come from a combined family of 11 girls and 2 boys.

I complained quite often to my mother that I did not like the way my step-father touched me. i didn't like the way he looked at me, and he always talked about very sexual things----i really didn't need to hear from him how my sister's breasts were as tight as melons after she had her baby. I didn't like being kissed on the neck and ears while I was trying to practice my piano. He once said something to me that made me feel so violated---with only words--that when I finally told someone, I couldn't even look them in the face when i repeated it.

When my first marriage ended--i had to move back home--I was there for 3 years, so i think I got more of it than my other sisters---i was just the only one who spoke out. My mother told me I had better get used to it because it didn't bother anyone else.

However, when he wasn't making sexual remarks or touching me in ways that made me uncomfortable----I enjoyed his company very much. I was the only one who was interested in the cattle he kept and i went with him to do watering--we had some great conversations--wish he could have been like that all the time. however after I remarried--he would come over to my house when my husband was gone--my hubby hated coming home for lunch and finding my step-father there.

I would complain, things would come to a blow up--then they would calm down--nothing would happen for awhile---then slowly they would start up again. I had more than one counselor tell me that they thought I had been abused and forgotten it---i did not believe that i could forget something like that. I told one of the counselors about the things my step-father did--and he looked at me and told me that what I was telling him was sexual abuse---i had just thought it was sexual harassment. eventually my sisters spoke up and said he had done and said similar things to them------where were they all the years i could have used some backing up so my mother would have believed me?

No matter anymore, i have learned to forgive him after he passed away--actually i would forgive him all the time and just hope he wouldn't do or say anything again--but he always did. He brought a lot of good things into our lives, not just bad. I choose to try to remember the good things, but occasionally some of the bad will come up. i also came to realize that his sexual problems did not make up his entire being--it wasn't the only thing he was. He was a hard worker, a fantastic gospel Doctrine teacher, a riot to watch a funny TV show with, and a very generous person---but he had a problem that he needed help for and never got. I truly did love the man---if I didn't, it would have been easier to deal with the problems. I just wanted him to be a father.

[kevieb]

I needed to do this in two different posts to separate the two issues. When i met my husband, he was newly divorced--i had been separated and divorced for 2 1/2 years and had dated a man off and on for a year---really tried to fall in love with that guy, but I just couldn't do it--it never felt right. I was set up with my hubby on a blind date shortly after my final breakup with the other guy and right after having my tonsils out. We went swimming, no less--with his children--and we ended up at the hospital having his eye stitched up because he hit it in a water slide---people kept asking me info about him--and I was too embarrassed to say I was on a blind date.

He impressed me not only with the things he said, but with the things he didn't say--he didn't worry that his daughter was chubby and he didn't think i should have tried to take my ex for everything i could get.

He told me all the things he did wrong in his first marriage--he was aware that he had really screwed things up. He also told me the things he thought it took to make a good marriage---I believed him. He treated me like a queen, he went out of his way to do the little extras and when i was offended by something he said, he apologized and sent me flowers---here is a clue to the dynamics of our relationship--the thing he said that i was offended by------should never have offended me---i think I was overly sensitive to certain things because of my first marriage and because i didn't have a lot of self esteem.

He had been inactive for 13 years and said he would not marry me until he could take me to the temple. He knew he was in love with me and wanted to marry me--but he was content to wait until i felt the same way--the other guy was kind of pushy about those issues. My hubby could tell me he loved me and not be hurt that I couldn't say it back to him yet.

When we were in the temple, kneeling across the altar, I wasn't feeling madly in love, I wasn't feeling excited, I just had this overwhelmingly calm feeling--I don't know how to describe it---and I didn't recognize it as the spirit giving me confirmation that I was doing the right thing until someone pointed it out to me later.

Putting together a combined family is never easy, I grew up in one. plus, he had the ex-in-laws from hell---if we had been dealing with his ex only things would have been much better. His 13 year old son had problems I had not been warned about--and I was only a 4 year old mother. (my son was 4, daughter 2)

I got pregnant and miscarried and was put in bed. I said that he hadn't planned on this--he told me he didn't make plans, he only made commitments. Yes, i was impressed with his attitude from the first time I met him until about 6 months into our marriage. i actually used to say things just to see what he would say back----and he always said the right thing. We spent hours talking while we dated.

After 6 months, i think the strain of in-law problems, being still pretty newly active in the church, problems with his son---and not realizing how difficult working at a marriage really is, finally took it's toll on him. When i wondered why he didn't do the things he said he would do, he told me it was just too hard to keep up that much commitment. He was also dealing with some dissatisfaction at work-----I think it was really depression. I ended up having a complete nervous breakdown and became almost non-functional--i could do laundry, vacuum, and fix simple meals. I'm sure he was a little disappointed in me, too, just like I was in him.

I had gotten pregnant again and we moved into a new home when our baby was 6 weeks old. We lived in that stake and ward for 18 years. We got along well at times, we fought a lot at times--but he never swore at me or threw things or hit me---he was just a yeller. A big issue has always been that i want to talk about things and he doesn't---i also did not develop an identity of my own---at least not enough of one---I depended too much on him to make me feel good about myself--and also on my sister, who was helpful and filled in for the things a mother would usually do because my mother worked, but she was also the kind of person who intimidated people and only saw her way as the right way. I was only just about to turn 25 when my hubby and I married--i had grown up insecure, been in one bad marriage and was probably overly idealistic about how a marriage was supposed to be.

DRPepper--you seem to be a pretty insightful person, and you seem to be able to read between the lines pretty well---are you able to see what I am starting to see about myself as i write this?

I used to never stand up for myself. My husband used to try and tell me what I could or couldn't do. I started to learn to speak up to him and tell him I could take a drive in the car when I needed to get away from him if I wanted to. (just an example) He sheepishly admitted that he was wrong to tell me I couldn't. He used to tell me that he liked it when I stood up for myself----but, I think somewhere along the way I could have possibly gotten carried away with what i expected from him. I also think that the fact that i had anxiety and depression makes me more sensitive than a lot of other people.

I had the anxiety problems when i was in grade school and leaned towards depression in Jr and SR high school---so our relationship problems didn't cause them--but they brought them back out.

I honestly believe that my husband has also had depression off and on over the years--i could see it with his dissatisfaction in his work and wanting to change jobs---i don't think he recognized it for what it was.

I also discovered along the way that he was dealing with some personal issues that I don't want to go into---but he was keeping these things from me---and I am sure they had to be detrimental to our relationship. If you really want to know, I will PM you, only because something about you instills some trust---I feel like you could look at a situation for what it is without making an inappropriate snap judgement--I feel like I can trust your advice. By the way--the personal issues have been conquered, now---but they were there for a lot of years.

what is your definition of "rough around the edges" And what do you consider verbal abuse. I read a church article about verbal abuse and was kind of surprised at the examples they used for verbal abuse---a few of them were so mild that i would have thought they were a little insensitive, but i never would have called them abusive. According to the examples I read, I think everyone of us would be considered verbally abusive.

I have been yelled at a lot over the years, but i suppose I could have been a little more assertive in standing up for myself and saying I would not tolerate it. i could also be a little more sensitive to how he is feeling before i approach him with problems. He could also realize that sometimes he has to deal with things whether or not it is convenient---I have to deal with problems whenever they come up--I don't get to wait until everything is perfect.

12 years ago, I felt like i had a fantastic marriage---and no, everything was not perfect and my husband still yelled at me sometimes.

I really pushed to find a bigger house because we have such a large family and they are really spread out in ages--i could see us having married kids come home while we still had kids in school. We ended up buying my mother's house a year after my step-father died. I was uneasy about it the whole time we were trying to sell our house--this is about the time my husband started swearing at me and throwing things. I was also falling into a depression--we had been through a lot of problems for a number of years----I think we were both strung out. I think my pushing a move that I was uneasy about was the biggest mistake i could have made.

I have never been able to pull out of the depression i went into and our marriage has been a battle ground with my husband shouting obscenities at me and throwing things. I have some genuine health issues--and i have dwelt on them too much--which he hates--but I guess that is how I have handled my depression. I don't think him being abusive could have caused all of my health problems--but I'm sure it has worsened them considerably.

You are right--i have lost the ability to pull myself out of the situation I am in. Thank you for recognizing that I want out of the situation--not out of my marriage (even though sometimes i think i do!)

I think my husband will always be a little rough around the edges---i seemed to always be drawn to those kind of men---never liked the boys that were too "nice".

My husband has been verbally abusive---but i don't know that he always will be, he may, however, be somewhat insensitive to certain things--I guess i will have to decide how I will deal with that--I'm not leaving my marriage---I'm not well enough to take care of myself and my children--but more than that, I still believe in him and i still love him--i just don't love a lot of the things he does.

I know I am entitled to inspiration for myself, but i don't think i am capable of receiving it right now because i am lacking the spirit---so i DO need some help from my leaders. I do need help with self esteem. I have never understood how the atonement comes in to play with that---and no one has ever been able to explain it to me.

I've been able to do a little soul-searching as i have replied to your post--it is good for me to see what part i play in my marital problems.

If I can learn to approach my husband at the right time, he is much more receptive to what i have to say. He keeps telling me I need to be patient with him while he is dealing with his issues. I finally told him that I also needed some patience while I was dealing with issues. He was very cheerful during sacrament meeting and gave me a little hug--when i pointed out that he was so cheerful--he reminded me what i had asked him for----a minor success!!!!

Please, if you don't mind, keep the comments and questions coming--this is helping me,

[tumbledquartz]

I'm glad someone mentioned the fact that you can receive inspiration for yourself. The fact is that if you don't feel like you have the spirit in your life enough to get that revelation, that should be your first priority right now. Meeting with the stake president once a month is nothing compared to having the spirit with you always.

I highly recommend that you prayerfully read this talk by Elder Bednar: Speeches It's one of my favorites and he details how we can access the power of the Atonement in our everyday lives.

Good luck with everything. <3

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Kevieb,

I am so sorry you are hurting and it is difficult to get the help you need, or to be understood here on the board.

You are right that our leaders are entitled to inspiration about how to help us, I know what you mean. I know it is hard, because I have been there--the difficulty is that they are human, and can make mistakes, misread the Spirit etc.

Your counselor that met with you three times and then said you were done, was horrible. My therapist just asked me a lot of questions and listened to me for the first few sessions..to try and get a realistic idea what was going on with me. (I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, and I go to therapy twice a week...I have for a few years now.)

I like what Anatess said about changing the dance. I know this is hard to hear and accept and I really, really wish I had something better to say, but from my experience, people (even church leaders) are often going to let you down. Usually they mean well, but people who have not been abused (and I am including the abuse from your step-dad) don't understand. How could they? I didn't understand most of this until I experienced it either. You can depend on the Lord (but you can't always understand His ways, and His silence. . .) and you can depend on yourself. So my version of changing the dance, is to focus on getting yourself more emotionally healthy through therapy. Talk to your Bishop, or Stake President again about therapy again....just for you. If you husband does not want to go, you can't make him, no one can or should, but you can change yourself.

Some therapists are good, some are terrible--you have experienced one of the bad ones, but dont give up on therapy because of that. I know it is frustrating, I know it is hard, I feel you, I really do. I think that telling you to advocate for yourself, and talk to your Bishop and Stake President again (I know you have tried and tried) is like telling the wounded man from the parable of the Good Samaritan to get up and chase after that Priest and explain that he is bleeding. It isn't right or fair, it just is.

You are stronger than you know. Look at all the things you have been through and dealt with. You seem frustrated, and saddened, but not angry and bitter....I think that is great. I passed through a very angry phase about the "church's" response to my needs...I'm getting better, but it still hurts. But we can do this. Keep asking for help...for yourself (you can't 'fix' your husband that is between him and the Lord)...but by getting help for you, you can change the dance as Anatess said.

Hang in there, I know this is hard. I know and I agree there should be more support...more listening, more validation, more offers of Priesthood blessings, more caring and more help in getting into counseling. I hear you. I wish things were different. But like I said, you are stronger than you know. Keep pushing to get some help. You can count on you, the Lord will help.

[kevieb]

tumbledquartz--i tried to read it---and i just can't right now---My hubby has been home early yesterday from work and all day today, of course--and not an unkind word from him. He was even sympathetic and listened as i briefly talked about my struggle with depression----and right now it is really bad.

I honestly wonder how much of the problems in my life are all my fault because I have fought depression so long. i read an article recently that talked about how difficult it is for someone who is severely depressed to feel the spirit---and I don't think it is because they don't want to.

I had my family all write their gifts to the Savior for this year on a piece of paper and put them in a white stocking to save for next year. My gift was to read my scriptures and get my prayers said 4-7 days a week. I know 7 days a week should be the ideal--and I used to be a lot better at it, but i figured i'd better not set a goal that i was sure to fail if I set it for every day.

Ideally, I

d like to get my prayers said every morning and every night--I'm pretty sure I used to get them in most of the time----I also used to be pretty good with my scriptures--even if it was only one verse.

Receiving personal inspiration came up in sunday school this last sunday. I made the comment that I am somewhat obsessive-compulsive and I have a tendency to over think things to the point that I no longer recognize if I have been given inspiration or not.

The best example I can give right now is this house we are living in. We lived in our last house and ward for 18 years---after we had lived there 9 years, I could see that we were outgrowing the house space--but I had loved so many things about where we lived. I found a house that seemed perfect and it was on the market forever, we were approved for a loan---It seemed like it was meant for us---but 3 offers came in on one day, and a friend of mine ended up buying it. I had been so sure it was the right place for us--but i remember getting the distinct impression after it sold, that us not getting the house had nothing to do with us--whatever that meant.

I made up my mind I was going to learn to get by with our house. We added on to the family room, which took out a bedroom (dumb) we had had a different plan for remodeling that would have given us a bigger family room and not lost the bedroom--but we never prayed about it. A few years later we remodeled our kitchen and we had a lot of space in our new "great room"--it just wasn't as practical for living since the basement stairs took up a good portion of half of the room.

I can't tell you how many times we remodeled our partial basement--but we ended up with a really nice big bedroom with an attached bathroom and a walk-in closet. We also had organized toy storage and a very organized food storage room--plus crawl space that held a lot of stuff. But, we had a very small room for the children to play in--and we had two bedrooms with 3 children in them--at one time we had 4 children in one bedroom--that is too many kids in one room for me.

I always felt so crowded--and we had two more children during the next 9 years we lived there.

Someone once suggested i buy my mother's house--but I was NOT interested in the house I grew up in. I needed yard space, I'm a gardener. After my step-father died, my mother wanted to stay there for at least a year before she made any decisions. Somehow it was suggested that we buy her house---it immediatly gave me a VERY uncomfortable feeling. My husband was content to stay where we were. My sister was going to remodel her house (with financial help from mom) so that mom and my brain damaged sister could move in with them--and my hubby and I would buy my mom's house.

My husband wanted nothing to do with selling the house or even looking at the repairs needed on my mothers house--he just said he would go along with me if I managed to get it all worked out. I felt SO UNEASY almost the entire time I was trying to decide and even after we made the decision to go ahead and try selling and moving. I don't know why i couldn't recognize that uncomfortable feeling for what it was. I was sinking in to depression, my kids did not really want to move, neither did my husband, but I was determined it had to be the right thing. Only ONCE did I happen to be lying on my bed and have a very peaceful feeling that this is what I needed to do for my family---I never felt it again.

I can't help but wonder if it was like the time the people kept asking for a king--and the Lord kept telling them no, and told them all the things that would go wrong with a king--but they persisted in asking for a King--until they were finally given the most righteous King possible---and still all the things they had been warned about happened.

I was sinking into depression the whole time we were working on moving--and this is when my husband started yelling such awful obscenities at me. My sister told me they were just afraid that I would back out---and at the last minute I wanted to back out--and would have if my husband would have agreed---but we wouldn't--not after I had pushed him so much about it---and we sold our house sight-unseen on the internet in a very bad market. We had 3 weeks to move--and I completely fell apart, I reacted badly to an anti-depressant and got sick---and within several months of moving i had lost so much weight people thought I had an eating disorder. I have never really recovered or been back to myself since.

Looking back, i can see that the almost constant unease I had about the whole move was most likely the spirit trying to tell me I was not making the right choice---and I ignored it! I did feel some pressure from my sister---but i can't blame anyone because I am responsible for my own decisions.

To add insult to injury, it put a lot of the family in an uproar that we bought the house. Rumors flew around that the house and all the furniture were GIVEN to us. My combined family has had so many secrets---and secrets are not good for families. My mother payed the house down some so that we could afford it---but she said they had already planned to do that and she thought it had already been done---my parents did their own things with money and didn't always discuss it---plus my step-father had not been in his right mind for longer than anyone realized.

The house was really outdated, and it needed a lot of repairs. My husband asked if any money could be loaned to fix things--he was thinking a few hundred a month. My mother and my sister decided on 20,000 and my husband was shocked when he was handed the check. (my mother's money, but my sister was supposed to be helping my mother with her finances) We used about half of it making the balconies safe and remodeling the master bathroom---then he lost his job.

everything kind of went to hell after that---so many things were assumed and said about us---I have cried probably every day for about at least 80% of the time we have lived here----I want to move back so badly it never leaves my mind. My old house is for sale--but the big yard was sold separately--it is for sale, too--but we would be looking at major restoration in the yard if we could even make all the selling and buying work out. There is also another house in our old ward that is for sale that would give us enough space for our large family to visit and has a large yard for me to garden--but once again, the selling and buying is a problem.

My sister could not deal with my brain damaged step-sister first--so they moved her to an assisted living home---then she couldn't deal with my mother living there--so she and another sister decided Mom had dementia (she didn't, forgetfulness was a side effect of a medication she took--I take the same thing and I forget things, too) My sister has 4 autoimmune diseases and i think she is probably not always in her right frame of mind--lots of medication, too. so, My sister from Utah, who I used to depend on so much, almost like a mother while my mother worked, came up and took my mother away to utah. I had lost two people that helped me feel secure. My sister had moved to utah just a couple of years before.

My mother most likely would have never left the town she had lived in for 35 years--she had told me she did not want to go to utah, she said she really wanted to find an apartment in her old ward and stay here. I feel like everything is my fault because i was so set on thinking I needed a bigger house---and ignoring that nagging uneasy feeling that i think was the spirit warning me that i was making a mistake. I feel like I have lost my family (siblings), and my mother, my children are leaving home so rapidly, I've messed up my marriage more than the problems we were having--which may not have been really much worse than what other people deal with--you don't always see things clear with depression. And i can't seem to feel like I fit in where i am now. Funny, I always thought i would take care of my mother--I was one of the youngest and always insecure--and my mother had always done so much to help me.

I realize this was REALLY long--but I just wanted to give you an idea of what I managed to do to myself and my family's lives by not listening to or recognizing the spirit---but I rationalized--and my sister would tell me to remember that one time that I had felt very good about the move. Looking back, It is almost as plain as day that I ignored the spirit.

I think my husband and I have never made it a practice to really pray about the choices we were making as we went about living our life and raising our family.

I think typing all this has helped me (along with some medication) to calm down--I can probably print the talk off and read it. Will it help me know how to tell the difference between my own wants and what the spirit knows is best?

If you got through this--thank you!

[tumbledquartz]

Will it help me know how to tell the difference between my own wants and what the spirit knows is best?

This talk isn't specifically about how to hear and understand revelation, so it doesn't really get into that. I can tell you from experience, though, that the answer to learning to recognize the spirit is to follow it. Any time you think you have felt an impression, go with it. Sometimes I tell the Lord that basically, "this is what I think you're telling me to do. If it's wrong, stop me, otherwise, this is what I'm doing." There have been a few times where I have felt after that like it was wrong and changed course, including one time when we put an offer in on a house. I just couldn't get a strong feeling and it seemed like a good thing, so we made the offer. For the next few days, a horrible dark cloud seemed to come down on me. I thought it was too late to get out of it, so I didn't say anything right away, but finally I talked my husband into going back to them and withdrawing our offer. I don't remember now if we lost earnest money or not, but I was so relieved to be out of it.

That was back a decade ago when my husband cared about spiritual promptings. More recently, I had the strongest impression I've ever had in my life, and it was also about a house, but he didn't believe me that it was the spirit. I still feel sick some days about losing that house because the spirit was so strong and so clear.

But whenever I possibly can, I follow the spirit where it leads, and I've felt it's influence more and more over time.

One other point I feel I should make is that if you have already done things that you feel went against the spirit, try not to look back with regret too much. Just move forward. Ask the Lord what he wants you to do now, and start trying to do it to the best of your ability. Anyone can talk themselves out of a prompting - they're not usually so perfectly clear as to be undeniable. So don't ask yourself if it could have just been you - ask yourself if it might have been the spirit, and then go and do.

I don't know if this helps at all. Let me know if you have more questions.

[garryw]

If you live in Idaho then you have access to a temple. Attend with your husband frequently. I know my own father yelled quite a bit, I was always terrified of him until I became an adult, and an inch taller than him. Although he had many church callings during his life, according to my siblings (who live closer to my parents), he completely changed after having a calling to work in the temple.

[kevieb]

quartz-(hope you don't mind me shortening that for ease) I always remember the scripture that says you should study a thing out in your mind and then ask the Lord if it is right--if it is right, he will cause a burning in your bosom so you will know it is right, if it is not right, you will have a stupor of thought that will make you forget the thing which is wrong----but, somehow, i don't think it is always that clear cut for some of us.

I know, now, that I felt the spirit when my hubby and I were kneeling across the altar---it was the calmest feeling, and I remember it was such a strong feeling and i remember that it was stronger than any feelings of Love for my husband or any feelings of excitement I had about marrying this man I felt so much in love with--it was just a perfect calmness---yet I didn't recognize it for what it was until i told someone about it and they told me what it was. I do think I thought it was kind of weird that my main feeling was calmness instead of excitement, love or nervousness. However, even with that assurance---our life together has not been easy at times.

I guess that means that just because something is the right thing, doesn't necessarily mean everything will be easy or just "fall in to place". the scripture only says we will get a burning in our bosom assuring us it is right.

The part I have difficulty with, is that the scripture also says you will have a stupor of thought and you will forget the thing that is wrong---that doesn't work with those of us that over-think things to death.

I feel like the uneasiness i felt so strongly, and the fact that i was falling into a depression and my husband was becoming so difficult (plus the fact that I had never been interested in buying my mother's house) should have been a blaring sign to me that I was making the wrong decision. But, I was afraid it might be the only chance of us getting out of that neighborhood--I was afraid of what might be happening to our neighborhood--and the only houses we could find, that were big enough, would not take contingency offers---my Mom was willing to wait for us to sell ours. I think my sister was even planning to move my mother and sister out to her house, and for us to move into mom's house before our house was sold---then ours could be left clean for showing-----we both would have had to still be making payments----I was letting someone else make decisions for me-----and i still couldn't see it.

after we sold it sight-unseen, on the internet, during a bad market made it seem like it was the right thing--even though I felt awful. Even our realtor, who had been in my ward, said she thought the Lord had a hand in it, and another of my sisters said she thought it worked out best for everyone because my Mom didn't have to completely clear everything out of her house or get it fixed up to sell (she wasn't up to that) We had to go through everything and get rid of stuff---and i still have an excess of stuff in the house I am working on getting rid of--and it is not easy for me to do.

I think maybe I thought we would fix this house up and eventually sell it---it could be worth more than we bought it for with a lot of updating---but we can't afford to do what it needs.

I just kept letting the positive things that other people were saying convince me that it was the right thing---even though I didn't feel very good about it, except for a random positive thought or idea here or there. I think I have regretted it everyday since we moved.

So, i can't change the past--but now I have this very desperate feeling of wanting to move back. My husband is willing to consider it if i do all the planning and can make it work, and can show him on paper that we would be better of financially---once again, he is leaving the whole decision up to me--but is willing to go along with whatever i can work out if it is financially workable. I know for certain that a move would probably save us 100-150 dollars a month in power bills (at least at our old home)--ours are outrageous--the gal at the power company said this house had some of the highest power bills she had ever seen.

Our old home, and the big side yard that we sold separately as a building lot, are both for sale. There is also another house in our old ward that is for sale. our old home would need to have the yard totally restored, but the house is in very good condition--it is at the edge of our old ward boundaries---we were always kind of separated from people, but we had space around us and were close to the store and the church house and the schools. I think we might have to expand it somewhat, though to fit our family for family gatherings.

The other house is also in good condition and has a better lay out than my old house-- it is right in the middle of our old ward boundaries--in a neighborhood full of people we have known for 25 years----I think it would be really good for my husband, where he is struggling with church activity---I think there would be more positive support for him. The stake president there is our old bishop and offered to help me when i told him about our struggles. Interestingly enough, my husband mentioned once that he thought this particular man could help us---he didn't know he had already offered to help.

It is also built on a double lot, so it would give me plenty of space to get back into the gardening that i used to love. ( I cannot garden in our present home because of several factors.) It also has a shop, which my husband has always wanted. We live in a neighborhood full of mostly older people------both other houses have neighborhoods with children, both are closer to the store--it is difficult for me to get myself out to the store when i don't feel well---especially since we have to drive across town and make a lot of turns from our present home---both other houses would be pretty much a straight shot to the store. Both houses also have bus stops very close to the house. We don't have that in our present home.

Our present home is two floors high with a family room in the basement (3 stories) and I feel like it separates us more as a family, especially since there are fewer children at home.

I know that I have a very strong feeling about wanting to move--and i feel like my reasons are very legitimate reasons, but i don't know how to tell the difference between what i just want and what would actually be best for my family. My family seems content enough here, but no one is really trying to work at getting my husband more active again--and he probably likes being left alone like that--it's easier. My oldest at home will graduate this year--so it is not that much of an issue to her. My 13 yr old has friends in the old ward---she doesn't do anything outside of church with the girls in our ward. My 15 year old son has friends in this ward, but he hangs out a lot with people outside of our ward, too. My youngest daughter goes to a different school from everyone in our ward----and I'm not sure if there is anyone in her grade in our ward--4th grade (next year) they all go to the same school regardless of where they live. When any of my married children come home--no one in our ward knows who they are, our old ward is full of people who have known them since they were either very young or since they were born--they would be greeted warmly when they came to visit.

There are people in this ward i really like---but I have never really felt like i "fit in". I have also never worked in an organization (except subbing for primary music 4 years ago) with more than one person---so i have never been able to develop that comeraderie you get from working with a group of people. If I could move into the house in the middle of my old ward's boundaries----i would have two friends within walking distance that are both stay-at-home moms like me.

Seems like I have every reason in the world to move---and almost none to stay--but I sit here frozen about starting the legwork to try and sell my home.

I know this was probably information overload--but it did me some good to write it all down. The only thing I "think" I feel uneasy about is getting my heart set on moving and then having both homes sell before we can get ours sold.

Maybe I'm also feeling that if I had people around me that i felt more comfortable with and have known for so many years, I would feel like I had more "family", since mine mostly moved away---and I would feel like I had more support---and if I was happier---our whole family would be happier----don't they say that it is often the mother who makes the home happy or unhappy?

After looking back over the advice you wrote me, I think I have had an impression of what I want to do for quite awhile--and two houses have become available--I have prayed about it and not felt uneasy about the decision---I think I need to start acting on it by getting my house on the market one way or another---and then see how I feel and how it goes from there.

Now to figure out how to try and sell without a realtor to save costs........

Please feel free to comment on my line of thinking, here---by the way--things are still going well with my hubby!

[kevieb]

quartz, sorry that a lot of my post was a repeat of what i had said in the previous post--but it still did me good to go over it again.

literateparakeet--somehow I missed your post before---I appreciate what you said.

garryw--we live about 45 miles from the Twin Falls Temple. Our recommends are good until next month. i have definitely seen a difference in my husband when we have attended the temple. i have chronic pain, so doing a session is like walking a tight rope in trying to make sure I don't get too much or not enough medication to be comfortable---but doing sealings is much easier for me because I can change positions and slip out to the bathroom if i need--plus, they let you go to the celestial room after doing sealings, if you want---that would probably do my hubby and I both good to spend a little time in there. i also think initiatory work would be easier for me because you can do that for as short or as long of a time as you want.

My husband says he does not think he is worthy to get a new temple recommend---I don't think he has DONE anything to make him not worthy---I think it is more an attitude issue and the fact that he has only been attending sacrament meeting. I feel like the spirit of the law might be a little more important than the letter of the law right now--forgive me if my thinking is wrong on that-----but i think a visit to the temple before our recommends run out might just do us both a lot of good.

[kevieb]

quartz, sorry that a lot of my post was a repeat of what i had said in the previous post--but it still did me good to go over it again.

literateparakeet--somehow I missed your post before---I appreciate what you said.

garryw--we live about 45 miles from the Twin Falls Temple. Our recommends are good until next month. i have definitely seen a difference in my husband when we have attended the temple. i have chronic pain, so doing a session is like walking a tight rope in trying to make sure I don't get too much or not enough medication to be comfortable---but doing sealings is much easier for me because I can change positions and slip out to the bathroom if i need--plus, they let you go to the celestial room after doing sealings, if you want---that would probably do my hubby and I both good to spend a little time in there. i also think initiatory work would be easier for me because you can do that for as short or as long of a time as you want.

My husband says he does not think he is worthy to get a new temple recommend---I don't think he has DONE anything to make him not worthy---I think it is more an attitude issue and the fact that he has only been attending sacrament meeting. I feel like the spirit of the law might be a little more important than the letter of the law right now--forgive me if my thinking is wrong on that-----but i think a visit to the temple before our recommends run out might just do us both a lot of good.

[tumbledquartz]

I always remember the scripture that says you should study a thing out in your mind and then ask the Lord if it is right--if it is right, he will cause a burning in your bosom so you will know it is right, if it is not right, you will have a stupor of thought that will make you forget the thing which is wrong----but, somehow, i don't think it is always that clear cut for some of us.

That scripture gets used a lot in the church when we talk about receiving revelation, so much so that I think we don't realize sometimes that there are other ways the spirit can talk to us. There is a great talk by Elder Oaks that talks about eight different ways the spirit speaks to us: Eight Ways God Can Speak to You - New Era Sept. 2004 - new-era Some of the eight ways he mentions are pretty rare, but it demonstrates that the spirit can speak to us in many different ways, not just the way outlined to Oliver Cowdery in the D&C.

Revelation sometimes works like that (burning in bosom vs. stupor of thought), but sometimes I've had revelation come when I hadn't studied something out yet or asked if it was right. And if you've never experienced the stupor of thought, that doesn't mean the spirit hasn't ever told you something was wrong. Oliver Cowdery was trying to translate a piece of ancient scripture when he was given that revelation you quoted above. He was doing a very specific job, and he was given a very specific revelation about how to know if he was doing it right. But that isn't the same formula that works every time the spirit directs us in every part of our lives.

Also, I have actually experienced the stupor of thought a few times in my life, and I can tell you that it's not a /permanent/ forgetting. I just felt confused for a minute, like I couldn't remember what I was praying about. Later, when I remembered, I could have talked myself into doing it anyway, but I recognized that it was the stupor of thought and that that was my answer to not do that thing.

Here's a quote from a great talk by Elder Hales about the workings of the spirit:

By design, most miracles are spiritual demonstrations of God’s power—tender mercies gently bestowed through impressions, ideas, feelings of assurance, solutions to problems, strength to meet challenges, and comfort to bear disappointments and sorrow. - Robert D. Hales, Oct 2007

This talk by Richard G. Scott, though, is the best one I've found so far that explains how to receive personal revelation: Learning to Recognize Answers to Prayer - general-conference

My favorite quote from it is:

He will confirm the correctness of our choices His way. That confirmation generally comes through packets of help found along the way. We discover them by being spiritually sensitive. They are like notes from a loving Father as evidence of His approval. If, in trust, we begin something which is not right, He will let us know before we have gone too far. We sense that help by recognizing troubled or uneasy feelings.

I have found that to be true in my life. The Lord reassures me along the way that I'm on the right path, and when I'm not on the right path, I get troubled feelings. This quote is probably a better description for how the spirit works in my life, personally, than the one from the D&C, although I do get those feelings, too, at times.

One last quote from that same talk because I think it's relevant to the decision you're making right now with your house situation:

When we seek inspiration to help make decisions, the Lord gives gentle promptings. These require us to think, to exercise faith, to work, to struggle at times, and to act. Seldom does the whole answer to a decisively important matter or complex problem come all at once. More often, it comes a piece at a time, without the end in sight.

It could be that when you move forward, little things start to fall in place to confirm to you that you're on the right path. As you get farther into it, something could change and you might not end up selling your house, but when you look back you see that by preparing to do so, something worked out for your good. Or it could be that you are supposed to sell it. By taking that step into the darkness by following the path Heavenly Father directs you to, by exercising that faith in His promptings, you will learn to recognize the spirit when it speaks to you.

By the way, I'm glad to hear that things are good between you and your husband these last couple days. Hopefully that will continue. <3 Good luck with everything.

[kevieb]

quartz--i'm sure I was meant to meet up with you on this board--you seem to be able to answer some of the things that don't make sense to me--without me even asking---and you aren't disillusioned and haven't lost touch with the spirit. I remember a time, after being inactive and leaving my first bad marriage, that i was far stronger in my religious convictions.

That scripture in the D & C was always told to us about making decisions--but to me it is obvious that it can't work that way all the time for everyone--but they also told us that all the scriptures apply to us, even if they were given to someone else in another time period---which could translate to a lot of young impressionable minds that that scripture is the way we are to do things when we are seeking an answer.

The quote you gave from Richard B. Scott's talk describes exactly what i was feeling when I was in the process of selling my last house and buying this one. I had the troubled and uneasy feelings about what I was doing---but I was not spiritually sensitive enough to recognize that it was the spirit trying to get through to me. It is amazing to see exactly what i felt actually written down in a talk from a general authority.

I remember that same uneasy feeling when i was dating a fellow off and on for a year before I met my husband. everyone thought it was a perfect match---My Mother even told me I was crazy if I didn't marry him---but I had such an uneasy feeling almost right from the start. i met my hubby within weeks after we broke up---which had been perfect timing, because If my hubby had called me to ask me out--I would have wanted to go, but probably would have turned him down because of feeling obligated to the other guy. I had only a few snatches of worry when my hubby and I were dating---especially the week after he gave me the ring---but they were so fleeting, I mark them up to normal adjustments to a new relationships and a brief bout of cold feet. I just didn't have those feelings of thinking that there might be someone better out there.

i called and talked to my dad yesterday about wanting to move and how I felt--he had some interesting points he told me and said he had a lot of confidence in gut feelings (he's not especially religious) he also had an interesting thought--he felt part of my unhappiness here could be from my growing up years in this house--maybe feelings i am subconsciously holding on to---I thought he had a good point on that one.

I think the last quote you gave me IS relevant to my house situation----especially the part about acting on a decision. I have been thinking about this for some time, and the second house became available while I was thinking about it----and I haven't even acted on it yet. i need to go ahead and start advertising in one way or another that we want to sell this house---but I am scared and a little uncertain about how to go about doing it--it's not like i can't easily find someone to help me put it on craigslist and buy, sell and trade on facebook. I know that both houses have been listed on one or the other of those places---i can start the same way.

If I sit here wishing away without acting, i will lose any chance there might be.

I've also thought about my reasons for wanting to move---earlier, it had a lot to do with feeling uncomfortable in my new ward and stake---but over time, I have often felt a little more comfortable in the ward--so that is not nearly so much of an issue. The bus situation is a big deal because my youngest is only in 3rd grade, being closer to the store is a big issue because I don't feel well a lot, being close to people we have known for 25 years is a big issue because my own family has mostly moved away--people we know for a long time have a tendency to feel a little like family, having a yard big enough to garden in is a big issue--i used to love to garden and would can almost anything I could get my hands on, having a house that does not spread everybody so far apart while inside is a big issue because I feel like we are losing touch with our younger children----and my husband spends so much time in the bedroom watching TV---in this house, the master bedroom is far away from the main parts of the house. Also, having people who knew my husband when he was more active and involved seems really important to me--because i can't help but think that they would notice the difference and want to more readily "bring back the lost sheep".

I feel like I have thought things out, now it is time to exercise faith and act by listing it where people can see it is for sale----plus getting the word out whenever we can (a realtor is my last choice because of cost--and everything is slow in the winter,anyway)

[Arctica]

It sounds like you went from trying to figure out how to deal with your abusive husband, to being determined to sell your house and move back to where you previously came from, and sounds like you are focusing on that, as if it will solve your problems. I would like to suggest, that you are just distracting yourself by putting your focus on the house issue...that is not the real issue. I would be surprised if your marriage will be any different whether you live in this part of town or that...

What you are trying to do is to change your husband. You can't change your husband, only he can change himself, if he wants to. You can only change yourself, and how you react to your husband.

I have found studying Real Love by Greg Baer helpful, as I am trying to deal with my particular situation, I recommend his works, there is lots of free information on his website, you can google it, and while I don't "buy" all of it, this information has helped me tremendously to stop feeling victimized by someone's behavior, as in, whether their actions or non actions will determine whether I can be happy.

Perhaps it's time to accept the fact that your husband is somewhat selfish, short tempered, and not capable of being particularly loving? Would that be a proper assessment of how he is?

You can still be happy, but you have to realize that he won't be the source of (all) of your happiness. Maybe some, at some point. It is too much, anyway, to expect one person to fill you with happiness, they would get pretty exhausted in the process, especially if you are very empty inside already.

[tumbledquartz]

You can still be happy, but you have to realize that he won't be the source of (all) of your happiness. Maybe some, at some point. It is too much, anyway, to expect one person to fill you with happiness, they would get pretty exhausted in the process, especially if you are very empty inside already.

This is exactly why we all need the spirit in our lives. No husband is going to be able to be the source of all your happiness, no matter how much of a saint he is. But Christ can fill us with peace and joy so that we aren't constantly feeling empty inside. His spirit is what we are missing when we feel lonely, depressed, and downtrodden. Sometimes we luck out and get surrounded by good people who help us feel less empty, but I almost think it's a blessing when our needs aren't always filled so that we will learn to turn to the Savior.

I'm not perfect at it by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm trying, and learning to listen to the spirit is part of it. Not just in big decisions like buying and selling real estate, but in everyday life.