xanmad33

yes there are scriptures that say that, God does not have a body... He is spirit, omnipresent, and omnipotent.... Several times the Bible describes God as invisible (Colossians 1:15; I Timothy 1:17, Hebrews 11:27). Although man can see God when He appears in various forms, no man can see directly the invisible Spirit of God. Since God is an invisible Spirit and is omnipresent, He does not have a body as we know it. He did assume various forms and temporary manifestations throughout the Old Testament so that man could see Him. (ex:theophanies.) However, the Bible does not record any permanent bodily manifestation of God until Jesus Christ was born. Of course, in Christ, God had a human body and now has a glorified, immortal human body. He is the only Spirit that is truly omnipresent lol a-train, all those verses have great meaning to them, when applied to the rest of scripture and read in context.

You know none of that is Biblical in ANY way right?

Thanks now I too am a ninja

Well Skalen if I was ever going to listen to anyone about being a Mormon, it would be you. Your the only one who has shown complete love in all you posts... I also feel like you consider what I say, that you don't just try to hammer me away, so thank you for that, it's refreshing

what about the verse in the Bible that assures you of your salvation? You are not sure of it? If I never become Mormon, will I go to hell?

how do I become an invisible user like you Skalen?

what will happen to me skalen according to your beliefs if I never become Mormon?

I am keenly aware of the gravity of the situation.

Why can't you do this? If it's the same God why can't you ask him? Just direct your prayer to the God of the Bible?

I have done this Skalen, with all my heart.

That is something I could never do. If indeed we serve the same God, then could't I just ask the God of the Bible? I believe I do know the difference and discernment is one of my gifts But I am not here to render my personal judgements, I am here to ask some honest questions, and gain a better insight into how you have come to the conclusions you have. I think very highly of you Skalen, you have been very loving in our heated disagreements :) I appreciate that more than you know

I know you believe that Skalen, and I have so much respect for you. I'm not saying you do or you don't --I started this thread to find out the answer to that question.

Hmm... that's speculation at best Even though Enoch contains at least one divine truth, that doesn't mean it should have been a part of Scripture. It is not sufficient for a book to contain God’s word; it must be entirely what God wants in Scripture. The writings of Wesley, Luther, and Calvin contain a great deal of God’s truth too, but that doesn't mean any of them are without error Jude is the only place I am aware of a quote from this book and that doesn't mean at ALL that Enoch was inspired. In fact, Paul quoted the pagan philosopher Epimenides in Titus 1:12 but that doesn't mean that Epimenides was inspired. Because other books are quoted in the Scripture does not mean that those other books are inspired Words of God. When Jesus and the apostles quote the Old Testament, the Jewish nation as a whole had already accepted them as being inspired. Within those six inspired books were references to other books that contained various tidbits of factual information.

How do you know your praying to the true God when you pray the prayer in Moroni? If you are NOT praying to the one true God, then who are you praying to? For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:13-14 (KJV) How is Satan transformed into an angel of light? Because he uses partial truth to fool us. All Christians must keep in mind that any prayers offered to anyone or anything other than God, constitute prayers and / or worship to demons. It opens the way for evil spirits to have access to that place or person. This is Biblical, look it up. lol, no Traveler, I do not worship scripture, but I do see the importance of bringing all "prophets" that preach another gospel back into it's light. If Jesus indicated that scriptures testify of him and that he is the truth, dont you think it would then be reliable to learn about him from them? Why would Jesus tell us to look to scripture to learn about him if we could not do so? I agree that the scriptures are not the source of truth, but that Gods spirit living in it is. God is the source of the truth we find in scripture. I personally believe I have done a very good job of showing that to you T, and of warning you of the importance of seeking a Biblical understanding before another book. Why is it called the "theory" rather than fact of evolution? Ilbeit that it may be the best explanation scientifically as of yet, but it is still a theory at best. Refer back to your latest biology book for clarification, I just looked at mine. My problem with evolution has nothing to do with this discussion, I only spoke of it because you said that God was truth in evolution, and I was telling you no, God does not change. I understood your reference to God and evolution as comparative of there nature?

Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books, I should have said. Please show me where he quoted from "The Book of Enoch?" Jesus, like all the Jews of the first century, divided the Old Testament into three "collections": the law, the prophets, the psalms. Jesus said: "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." (Luke 24:44) This is your interpretation, but to us LDS we see three members of the Godhead in the Bible. I see Jesus praying to his Heavenly Father. I see him saying "not my will but thine." Such a statement would simply not make sense if they were both the same person. You believe that our understanding of the nature of God is wrong. We believe that you are the one who misunderstands. I noticed that you mentioned at one point that you are getting contradictory responses from people here - that we do not all seem to believe the same thing. I wonder if that could be because some of the responses have been from non-LDS people. We even have a non-LDS moderator. So obviously their responses would be from a non-LDS viewpoint. Sometimes I think it would be handy if there was reference to a person's religion actually within the posts, by the avatar or somewhere so that we would know which viewpoint is being represented. Hmm.. thats a good idea, but everyone who has answered has done so on behalf of the LDS church, so i don't know???

The true "sprirt" of God is the spirit of truth, I agree but "truth" can be used by the enemy.. This is exactly what the evil one did when he tempted Jesus (Matthew 4:1-11). He used truth, even a scripture, but put it in a anti-God context where Jesus was tempted to respond to God in doubt. If you are reading the Bible, and praying to God for a better understanding, he will give it to you, i never said otherwise. If you are praying to another "God" than that of the Bible it is also fair to say that you will not be getting "true" truth. Are our "Gods" the same? Are we praying to the Same God for that truth? These have been my questions. The definition of deception: "a misleading falsehood" How would something be misleading if it did not appear as the truth? Are we not praying to two seperate "Gods"? I have been trying to figure that one out all day...there is the one God of the Bible and the three of the BOM, right? Truth is not in all things, if that were truly the case, there would be no need for Mormon missionaries. Evolution is a theory, and God is unchanging. He is the same today, yesterday, and forever. If this were truly the case, then the BOM must have been a fraud. I would agree that love is how God is reflected in his people. But to insinuate that love alone is a testament to that religions correct understanding of God and therefore ultimate salvation would mean that Wiccans, Muslims, Jehovas whitnesses, etc. all serve the same God....to that I would disagree. I DO pray for understanding of the scriptue. It is called his "living word" because he speaks to us through it. Through prayer and humility our understanding deepens, but you must not confuse this with what I have been trying to point out for awhile now. He only instructs prayer to believers who lack wisdom. Wisdom is the proper use of knowledge, not the acquisition of knowledge. "You acquire true spiritual knowledge from the Bible, not your heart. You pray about the truth you've learned from the Bible for a better understanding and ask God to teach you how to apply properly what He's already shown you therein." You do not pray to the God of new books to "see" if they are from God...That is unbiblical

lol, actually yes :) Context is PARAMOUNT. The doctrines of LDS differ so dramatically from scripture that is imperative for one to provide evidence to support those claims Biblically. Are we not to search the scriptures to see if in fact this new revelation actually did come from the same God of the Bible? Joseph Smith claimed that could be done... also. much of what is has been used here as evidence has been taken grossly out of context. We can start a new thread if you like on Joseph smiths sermons, prophesys, and claims? The Abraham papyrus etc... Your call, I am always ready and willing to learn. :)

yes can we stay focused everyone! , thanks Skalen

Is it safe to say that when you pray to another spirit, you are getting a different revelation? Praying for understanding is very different that praying to see if something IS truth. I have explained this in more detail in previous posts. I don't know if you are a Mormon or not, but this conversation is for Mormons and Christians who BOTH believe in the Bible. Joseph Smith claimed to be able to reconcile all his revelation to the Bible. If you are questioning the need for the Bible, then you must also be questioning the need for the BOM, not a subject I am getting into in this thread, for further clarification, you may want to go to the thread "some questions for Mormons" I do believe we touched on that breifly in that thread. Please give me Jesus' references to "THE BOOK OF ENOCH" What's more, Enoch couldn't have written it: It contains information that was only known, or in existence, -AFTER- the flood. Enoch was raptured 700 years before the flood. The book of Enoch probably contains many of Enoch's actual words but just because a book contains some true statements, does not make the entire work True. Most false teaching often contains even as much as 95% truth. Satan and his demons are busy deceiving humanity, appearing as "ministers of righteousness". (2Cor11:15) In order to appear "righteous" they have to proclaim at least 'some' truth. Nobody even knows who wrote it.... I really don't see how this argument can hold any weight... Hmm... well I have no idea what you are accusing me of here, but peace!

Again, CONTEXT: Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, 2To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ at Colosse: Grace and peace to you from God our Father. ....5the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel 6that has come to you This again proves my point. The Lord is instructing believers in his word to pray for knowledge of his will IN all wisdom and spiritual understanding. Yes one should counsel the Lord in ALL THY DOINGS. Again, bring all thoughts captive to the Lord, I agree. Look unto the Lord in every thought, still agree

This is far from proof Skalen... The Book of Mormon was written in 1830! The Bible was written looooong before that Here is a great article about the context of Ezekiels prophesy: "in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) the Hebrew word translated “stick” always refers to wood and is never used, even figuratively, to mean a scroll or book. Therefore, nothing in these verses even suggests a book or scroll. At the time of the prophet Ezekiel (6th century B.C.), the nation of Israel was in turmoil. Since shortly after the time of Solomon, it had been divided into two kingdoms. The ten northern tribes, henceforth called Israel, had earlier been taken captive by the nation of Assyria in 723/722 B.C. Then the two southern tribes (the Kingdom of Judah), were taken into captivity by the Babylonians (606 – 583 B.C.). The dissolution of God’s covenant people was extremely distressing for the remnant of faithful Hebrew believers. It appeared that God’s promises had failed. This is the setting for chapter 37. So what is Ezekiel’s message to the beleaguered Hebrew believers? In the midst of their despair and pain, Ezekiel gives a two-part message of comfort and hope from God. The first part (verses 1-14) contains the well-known vision of the valley of dry bones. Through that vision, Israel’s God pledges to breathe new life into the dry and scattered nation of Israel and bring the people back into the land. For those who have read this passage it is quite a picture with those dry bones being miraculously brought to life. Then, in verses 15-22, God promises a future restoration for the whole nation, and announces that some day the northern kingdom, called “Joseph,” and the southern kingdom, called “Judah,” would once again be a united Israel. It is here that we find the meaning of the “sticks” that are joined together in Ezekiel 37:15-22. In verse 16 Ezekiel is told to write on one stick “For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions.” This first stick represented the southern kingdom, or Judah. On a second stick, or piece of wood, Ezekiel was to write, “For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions.” This represented the northern kingdom, called Israel. God then tells Ezekiel, in verse 17, to join the two sticks into one stick and have them become one in Ezekiel's hand. In doing so, God is saying that He will bring back together His divided and decimated people. That this is the meaning of the two sticks and their being joined together is stated very explicitly in verses 21-22. "And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all." The prophecy of Ezekiel 37:16-17 has a specific historical context. It is a prediction of the future unity of God’s divided covenant people

He only instructs prayer to believers who lack wisdom. Wisdom is the proper use of knowledge, not the acquisition of knowledge. It was put better than I could already: "You acquire true spiritual knowledge from the Bible, not your heart. You don't pray about the B.O.M., you pray about the truth you've learned from the Bible and ask God to teach you more, and how to apply properly what He's already shown you therein."

Follow the links to each chapter, and topic, they are collide Can you tell me then, what ztodd's objection was to me posting that on the other page?

Where is your proof of Joseph=Nephites/laminites?

Well since Jesus refers back to the Old testament several times as authoratative, and since the new testament was completed by the apostles who actually interacted with Jesus, and they fit together perfectly without contradicting one another in ANY way, and revealing the same truth's about even the Charachter of God, and the fact that Jesus promised his word could not be broken, I then think these are relevant questions. but since we both already aknowledge the Bible is the Word of God, even Joseph Smith claims his revelations can be reconciled with the Bible, claims made after the current Bible was already in existance, then I believe it's becomes fair to ask the question I have. Secondly please do not put words in my mouth. I never said prayer is not important. Or that scripture teaches me NOT to pray, please go back to read EXACTLY in context what I said about prayer.