KateBateBoBate

Not all scripture is a prophesy! And it wasn't the TEACHER who said this, it was the church produced institute material. That anything spoken from the pulpit by the the brethren is scripture. Not stories about when they were kids, OBVIOUSLY. The counsel they give and anything they DO prophesy-- most recent scripture we can have. Because they are all prophets, seers and revelators. If they say, "Hey, what I'm about to say is NOT prophesy" then they are allowed to do that. Nephi also had prayerful attempts to impart knowledge. They became scripture. Alma wrote things with much prayer and meditation that are well worth our careful consideration. You know what I'm going to say next, right? THEY BECAME SCRIPTURE.

I agree. Not everything prompted by the holy spirit is "scripture". But we are told that anything spoken by the Brethren from the pulpit is scripture and not everyone knows that, which is why I mentioned it, Hemidakota. Scripture is for everyone.

Come on, are you saying that "breed like rabbits" is not, like, flattering or something? ;-) They're so cute! And I think they even prefer their carrots with Jello and marshmellows, too!

First, I've already responded generally, to the whole thread, but I wanted to respond to this. First of all, call me crazy but if something is not a sin and only "strongly discouraged", I feel pretty comfortable with making my own decisions. I dare say, even, that I feel comfortable with getting into the celestial kingdom by the skin of my teeth. As long as I get there, what difference does it make? I have all of eternity to become perfect. So Jane never took a swig of diet coke in her life while I drink it regularly. So what? If we're both worthy to enter the same place, I don't see how that matters. Obviously, I don't mean that I'm looking to do whatever bad things I can get away with, because that would signify a whole attitude of not looking to become like Christ. What I mean is that I know my heart. And I feel comfortable with making decisions that are generally discouraged, even "strongly", for reasons that are totally Christlike. And if I'm wrong by a technicality but I still make it to the same place as you, I'm okay with that strike on my record. The reason, I think, why some things are only discouraged and not commandments is because they can negatively affect our lives here on Earth. And the Lord loves us enough that he wants to let us know. But they don't affect our salvation. And heck, in the W.O.W, it says to eat meat sparingly but how many members do you know who do that? I'm one of few in my church. I know plenty of members who are obese and treat their bodies like crap. Is that going to keep them out of the celestial kingdom? We're told "no". If they want to be obese and possibly miserable because of that on Earth, that's their choice. As for your comment about being confused about the covenant, I think the whole birthing thing is just wording. It has to be. Look at all the other things that we do that are totally confusing as far as who gets sealed to whom. Women who've been sealed to their husband and had kids with him get widowed, marry again and have more kids. Well, THAT'S confusing. And yet the church definitely doesn't discourage those people from having more kids. Because the important thing is that they're good people wanting to have kids and the Lord works it out somehow later. Maybe if my friends never joined the church, that child WOULD get sealed to me. I doubt it, but I'm sure it would be fine. I don't think there's a whole lot of "I hate you and wouldn't want to be sealed to you" in the celestial kingdom. But I think the more likely scenario is that it's their child, with their genes and it just lived in me for a while. And the Lord will make sense of this, just like he will make sense of all those frozen embryos that will be frozen until Christ comes. Just like he makes sense of all the kids that are born thanks to good old fashioned sperm banks.

By the way, to be clear, it never occurred to me til now that there might be some negative stance on it. And even if the church does say no (the Lord says no), I feel this is not something you can say and take back!

No, it's not the same because conference talks ARE scripture. Okay, not canon, but they are considered the most recent scripture we have. Learned that in Institute Class on The Living Prophets. So, I found this thread because I'm searching for info on surrogacy in the church because I already offered my uterus to my dear friend who is not a member of our church and she has two children, wanted another, had a miscarriage fairly late in the pregnancy and then had a stillborn baby VERY late in the pregnancy and then had another miscarriage. The day she told me her baby had died I knew I would carry a baby for her if she asked me to. I'd do almost anything for her. I won't share my genes because I know I'd see that baby as mine, but I'd totally be able to carry a baby not of my genes and not get attached to it. I have kids already and am not having more, don't want more and hate being pregnant. I hate it SO much that my instinctual reaction when I hear someone is pregnant is "Oh, I'm so sorry for her." Then, I realize it's a good thing and am happy but... that's how much I hate being pregnant. Nevertheless, I've already offered my uterus and meant it 100%. There's no acceptance as of yet. But I wanted to find out what the church says about it. If the church just discourages it and it's not a sin, going to put my recommend in jeopardy, why the heck would I not do this for her? Think about it. IT WON'T NEGATIVELY AFFECT MY SALVATION. What else do I need to know? It might be miserable to be pregnant? Who cares? You know what's more miserable? Giving birth to your dead baby. And not knowing anything about the plan of salvation to make that even a teeny bit bearable. It might tear us apart and estrange us? (It won't but for the sake of argument...) So what? I can give up my friendship, if necessary, to bring a family joy and peace. And who knows, it might even soften their hearts enough to pray about the church. I can't think of any GOOD reason why I'd be discouraged from doing this that doesn't involve fear of some pretty minor inconveniences, when you look at the situation in perspective. And of course I'd NEVER want money. I'd be okay with her buying me a few maternity threads but THAT'S IT. Okay, and maybe vitamins. And if she wanted to micromanage my diet (which she'd never do because she isn't stupid and she knows you can eat almost nothing and still have a healthy baby), WHATEVER MAKES HER HAPPY. How dare I complain when I have never given birth to a dead baby? These are all SMALL THINGS. What is not small is the excruciating pain my friend has been going through. And I love her and can't think of a single judgemental thing to say about her. So, bottomline: if it won't keep me out of the C.T., I'm going to use my free agency. I feel completely good about it. But if anyone knows of any statement saying it WILL keep me out, please let me know. (Of course, I'll make an appt. with my Stake Pres. but in the meantime...) Thanks.