Islander
-
Posts
1201 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Islander
-
-
Another issue to consider is that conversation is an art. Just because you can "speak" it does not mean you know how t converse. We have no formal training, any longer, in how to present and argument or even to propose an idea without bias or advocacy. We tend to think that the universe ends at the tip of our nose and MUST be subject to OUR interpretation.
That is the fastest way to a fight.
-
Welcome Mike. I hope you'll enjoy your stay. Read as much as you can since most questions you may have, rest assured have been asked before.
-
I'm not asking for apologetic spins. I know all the possible solutions that creative minds come up with to explain why conflicting scripture doesn't mean what it actually says, Rather I am asking how one reconciles the real, known problems without resorting to spin.
If you like, you can think about the conflicting birth accounts, the erroneous birth chronology, the conflicting Jesus genealogies, the conflicting end of life (Christ's) accounts, etc, etc, etc
Have you ever taken an art class? I could explain much better than draw so I am not the expert here. But from one model-object over a table, the resulting 20-something drawings from teh observer/class could not be more different. And we were ALL looking at the same object.
The accounts were gathered by different people at different times many years after the Savior's ministry. Without video and audio cameras, recall is a fraction of of the factual events. I happen to know a thing or two about interviewing, memory and recall. The Gospels are no different than any other multi-witness statement after the fact.
-
The "social life" in college is seriously overrated. Concentrate in your academics, look for the institute locally and seek out the YSA wards and groups in the area. If it is inthe US, the eara will be just like any other area in the Church, for the most part.
-
Hi everyone. Should I read the entire Book of Mormon before deciding to become Mormon? At this point in my life I am currently trying to figure out exactly what the truth is. I am exploring Mormonism and may become a member once again.
The issue here is not the truth of the doctrine or the soundness word of God in the scriptures. The issue is your willingness to live in faith by the commitments and covenants you have made. You will never fully realize your potential or receive the fullness of the blessing that our Heavenly Father has in store for you if you are not wiling to repent, give up your sins and allow the Savior to heal you, strengthen you and reclaim your soul.
-
I agree to a certain extent. As a result of people like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, atheism has recently become sort of a trend among young dissidents. They're turning atheism into a movement rather than a worldview, and I'm not so sure that I like that. A lot of these upstarts are pretty dumb as well. Just the other day I had to team up with a few fellow atheists on another discussion forum and try to convince a recent self-proclaimed deconvert that rejecting his religious upbringing based solely on the movie Zeitgeist is a very bad idea.
All that considered though, I still think it's safe to say that most atheists are either quiet deconverts like myself or people who were never taught to believe in God by their parents. The quiet deconverts go through an initial phase of rejection of God that's usually followed by the more simple non-acknowledgment of God that lifelong atheists tend to adhere to (how can you reject something that you were never forced to believe in?).
Well, to judge by the time you spend on those forums and in this one, in particular, I think that validates my point.
-
I think that depends on what "version" of God your speaking of. The extreme Traditional "Hellfire" christian God yes.
But in the LDS Judged according to knowledge an Atheist who keeps the 10 commandments because they are good advice, is better off then a Christian who keeps them they "have to".
IMHO.
I would have to disagree with you my friend. The "outward performances" are meaningless when willfully rejecting God and the salvation in Christ. It is a mildly interesting philosophical argument but it does not hold water. Openly and willfully rejecting the will and commandments of God in favor of one's own "brand of righteousness" amounts to rebellion. There is no godliness or righteousness without repentance, a true broken heart and contrite spirit. Christ came to fulfill all the ends of the law. There is no salvation away or separate from Him.
An aborigine in the Amazon that has never heard of of the God of Israel and the Christ has all opportunity to enter into the kingdom of God. In the other hand, atheists have none.
-
From a psychological standpoint, atheism is nothing but an attempt to find public approval and support (among like-minded individuals) for one's choice to deny the existence of and exclude God from one's life and reference. It is sort of a communal effort and statement of affirmation in-unison rejection of deity. The bottom line is that God interferes with some human's social agendas. For some, God's life plan and road map for us is too restrictive and limiting.
The decision to utterly reject deity is fraught with such internal conflict and turmoil, the subconscious tension and anxiety it generates is such that some individuals spend enormous amounts of time, energy, money and resources in these cathartic "excision" rituals. (e.g "de-baptizing", protesting against religion, arguing in religious boards) The philosophical jundra is just window dressing/explanation for the decision.
Let's look at it this way: if they are right and there is no God I'd still be OK and would have lived a, nice quiet and happy life with my wife and family. And they would have spent an extraordinary amount of time and energy fighting for nothing and arguing a complete intangible. But, if they are wrong, I would not want to be in their skin at the last day.
-
How did the world ever function before cell phones?
Right!!
-
We have been commanded to be diligent in the work of the Lord. And this work that we do for our kindred dead will come to bear across the veil but ONLY in the Lord's due time. Just like a title of inheritance, although written and recorded, it is not executed and performed until the proper authority certifies that all requirements are met and the parties are present. So it will be with the ordinances thereof.
Rejecting the commandments and covenants of the Lord on account of our own sin has consequences. We are not sure what they will be. But rest assured, as it is written so shall it be, that it may have been better that they would not have known the word and the commandments of the Lord. For those that willfully rebel against Him and His truth shall be cut off. But who is to know the eternal mercies and the everlasting kindness of the Lord towards His children. We sorry for the loss of their lives and opportunities they had but we perform the ordinances as commanded. The rest is up to the Lord.
-
In other cases however, certain people are already predisposed to and antagonize others regardless. I was recently in Utah at a retail store in the books section talking to another customer who was interested in getting the book sign by the author that was there. A woman approached, her face all twisted in a mask of disgust, and in the most sour of inflections said to the group: "how come there are no (other denomination) authors or books sold here at the store? Not everybody in SLC is a Mormon, you know?"
I think some made up their mind long ago and civility is not part of their vocabulary.
-
I've got no problems with covert activity but when the people are possibly being unethical and/or illegal then there's issues. This is why aspects of the intelligence community are tracked and monitored.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I've spent several years, more than half my life, outside the united states and in countries considered by most to be hostile; the thing that separates 'good' from 'bad' are ethics.
Partially agree. The lines ma seem clear cut from behind a computer keyboard. They are not so, believe me, in real life.
Beyond that, operations range from the bizarre to the embarrassingly ridiculous. So, we can guess but we may never know. Some "experiments" with LSD and telepathy conducted in the 60's are seen now as totally ridiculous. Back then it was a serious endeavor.
-
Most people do not understand what it needs to be done by a few thousands in order to keep 300 million people safe. Unfortunately, the intelligence agencies have to do this song and dance EVERY time there is a change in tenants in the White House, depending on what colors they fly. It is a sad and demoralizing game and demagogues and politicians do not understand what it costs in terms of failures in intelligence gathering, delays in planing and operational capacity building and loss of experience thru flight in human capital.
People complain about the use of military contractors and the reliance on research and think tanks outside the NSA. The Iran-Contra affair pushed 3000 people into "retirements" in the late 80's and early 90's. Guess where the went? For almost 20 years we have been limping in terms of real intelligence capabilities and relying heavily on the Israelis (which is not always the best choice for a number of reasons). But, most people watch CNN for 15 minutes a day and they believe they are political pundits and foreign policy experts.
-
Polygamy is lust and adultery put together. Is polygamy a sin in your church? Yes or no. I would love to here your answer.
There IS NO polygamy in the Church today. There is ONLY the marriage of one woman and one man. The Temple covenant is predicated on this union and absolute chastity and faithfulness to one's spouse. Any extramarital relationship IS a sin and grounds for excommunication from the Church or disfellowship.
-
He deserves to be disfellowshiped
-
I'll keep this short and sweet: the idea of polygamy in the eternities is seriously hurting my testimony.
I posted about this in the past, and got mixed answers. I'm not trying to discuss doctrine, or polygamy, as I know there are many threads on the subject... I just need to know how to stop thinking about it. I've talked to my bishop, and read my scriptures, and prayed (sometimes, literally sobbing on my knees, begging God to comfort me,) and have received no peace on the matter. This has been bothering me for months. I've never had something affect my testimony this badly before, and all my usual "tactics" for restoring it aren't working. I can't look at my husband without imagining having to share him, and the resentment, fear, and confusion is building up inside me.
Help?
My question is; why are you worrying so much about something that, today, has absolutely no bearing in your salvation and covenant with the Lord? Why have you made this principle, rescinded 100 years ago, the pivotal point of your testimony?
-
What we fail to realize is that satan has been on the earth since before Adam and Eve. He has been carefully observing humans and their behavior for an ion. I have not found in scripture or doctrine that he can "hear" our thoughts. But I don't think he needs to.
Humans are fairly predictable, bound to traditions and trends as well as habitual patterns of behavior. By just watching and listening to someone for a few days, we can easily predict behavior, reaction, expectations and decisions. Precisely because satan has been around so long, watching our every move, he can prepare the perfect snare for us. He knows our favorite sins, he understands our weaknesses, our inner unrighteous desires and secret cravings because he has seen us struggle with them. Thus every day, he prepares a fresh variation and version of them to seduce us into sin. It is by the power of God, the strength of our faith and our devotion to the covenants we have made that we can overcome his evil design.
-
Maybe because I am a convert I am not familiar with these cultural idiosyncrasies within the Church membership. I stop by the forum most days a total 20-30 minutes. I glance here and there, post occasionally. I find that the forum has stretched itself well beyond its intended mission but that is not for me to decide, I guess.
The internet is NOT the source for spiritual life or experience. It is a tool by which certain information can be found. To center our religious foundation on what is found or not in the internet is just plain silly, to avoid using pejorative language. Contrary to popular wisdom, most of the information on the internet is NOT reliable. It has given a soap box and an audience to every nut case, socially and mentally deranged psychopath. We should not equate that with accuracy, insight or knowledge.
-
You know, it's so easy just to simply say that people who are struggling with the church either have a) sin in their life and need to repent, or b) say that they need to read the scriptures, pray about it and listen to the General Authorities. What about a person who's picked up some anti-Mormon literature? Or maybe got a hold of a Sandra Tanner book? Or saw one of the hundreds of youtube videos that contained anti propaganda? Or saw the PBS special on "The Mormons"? How do members get around that? You just can't simply tell them "oh, that's all taken out of context" or "that's all lies". While some of it may be, the general 'meat and potatoes' of it may not be. So I think this is where John Dehlin comes into play with how to help people resolve these issues and still maintain a positive outlook on the church and keep them from going inactive or resigning their membership. While his approach may be controversial, from what I've read he's helped THOUSANDS keep their faith in the church, for the most part, somewhat intact. And for even doing just that much, (or that little, depending on how you look at it) I truly applaud him.
This is an issue that has been rehashed several times in the forum. If your belief and testimony of the truthfulness of the Gospel is shaken, if your strength and testimony trembles like a leaf in the wind because something somebody says or something you read it is YOU that realized that your foundation is weak. Nothing has changed, but you have realized that your roots are not planted deep into the soil of the Gospel. It is you that find yourself tumbling down swept by the wind for your anchor has failed.
What you must also realize is that since the time of the crucifixion, people have been contending about every aspect of the life and ministry of Christ. Even before that, they killed the prophets and rejected their teachings. Remember, Joseph was killed by the mob and for almost 200 years, enemies, critics and detractors have been trying to defame and discredit his work. The accusations, the lies and vile propositions that some of these characters present are very old and faded. There is nothing new there that we have not heard before. It has been the work of the devil since and will continue to be for that is all this miserable being can do to try and interfere with the work.
So, there is only ONE way to regain your footing, renew your strength and regain a testimony of the truthfulness of this work; yes --it is by reading your scriptures, by praying and pondering on the things of the Lord and by doing His work. For you will never regain a solid witness of this work unless you commit every ounce of energy to it and every waking moment to win this spiritual war in which you find yourself at this moment. It is that simple, yes and all you have to do is to listen to the counsel of the brethren and "look" into the scriptures.
"And he did straiten them in the wilderness with his rod; for they hardened their hearts, even as ye have; and the Lord straitened them because of their iniquity. He sent fiery flying serpents among them; and after they were bitten he prepared a way that they might be healed; and the labor which they had to perform was to look; and because of the simpleness of the way, or the easiness of it, there were many who perished." 1Ne 17:41
-
My wife and I are both converts. My mother in-law is a sweetheart. She had no clue why her daughter wanted to leave the traditions of her fathers and become something else. She was never critical or hostile towards me or the Church but she was not happy. My other in-laws (my wife's bros, sisters and their husbands/wives) in the other hand, made fun (behind my back), criticized us, antagonized with us and even spoke to our children in negative terms about the Church. We stopped letting them go by themselves to visit (they live just down the street from us).
Fast forward 5 years. Two years ago on Thanksgiving I offered a prayer at dinner time. After meals we went walking and some of my in-laws that stayed behind started their favorite sport (Mormon-bashing) infront of our children. My MIL was present and told them she found them (comments) offensive, disrespectful and dishonest. She asked them "what is so bad about believing in Christ, trusting in God and honoring one's wife and family? What is so bad about not getting intoxicated every weekend and going out with the guys to the strip joints like so-and-so-your-husbands-and-brothers?" It is all on tape. They were recording the kids doing Karaoke when the exchange happened. They still don't care but they have never said another word about it.
I baptized my mother in-law and one of my brothers in law a year ago. I bit my tongue too many times to count. Anyone that knows me also know that I am not the tongue-biting-kind. I still have, after 10 years of being converted, somewhat of a difficult time "turning in the other chick". In years past, I would have dislocated somebody's jaw without letting go of my turkey dinner plate if they would have offended me or my wife like that. But I kept my peace.
I am getting better and these issues with the family helped. Great are the rewards that come from listening to the Spirit and the scriptures:
"And faith, hope, charity and love, with an eye single to the glory of God, qualify him for the work.
Remember faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, godliness, charity, humility, diligence.
Ask, and ye shall receive; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. Amen." D&C 4.
-
I also feel that many do not actually bear witness to those that matter; those not of our faith and that still believe absurdities about our religion. All because they have not heard us bearing our testimony of Christ and the truthfulness of the Gospel. I think a testimony should be succinct and to the point. If it takes more than 1 minute is too long.
-
You know...now that you mention what you did MissHalfway, I had a dream once...the girl in mind that I was dating at the time (and have been dating since) showed quite disdainful feelings and almost outright hatred toward me. You see...I have certain conditions...mental ones and she has often told me that she doesn't want to deal with that, sooooooo, perhaps she's not that one? I was feeling a lot of anxiety about it earlier today, but after praying about it and reading your supportive replies, I think I'm going to take action accordinly. Thanks.
Many of the mistakes we make in life are really the result of choices we made, many times, while aware of the potential consequences.
She ALREADY told you that she wants not part of dealing with your "mental condition" and you still question whther she is the one. Mental conditions/illnesses do not go away, do not disappear and do not get cured. They can, in time and with medication, be managed but your WILL have struggle and deal with it for the rest of your life. But she already told you she DOES NOT want to deal with it.
Yo need to give up your fantasies and grasp the reality of the situation.
-
As adults, the viability of having a close friend of the opposite sex is dubious at best, if history teaches us anything. Love is basically feelings that arise out of intimacy, shared experiences and time. The truth is that once we have chosen a mate those relationships MUST give way to the marriage. If the two friends are also married there is a good chance that the two families can forge a solid and life long relationship. But there is no room for one-on-one time alone. That is a recipe for disaster sooner or later.
Women tend to be somewhat more naive, perhaps, or by nature more trusting. But no self respecting man would feel comfortable knowing that his wife is out with a "friend" that happens to be a guy. It seems counter intuitive.
-
I think this thread just ran its course...
Paul, Meet Paul: A Study in Forgery
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Islander
Some time ago, Prof. Porter at USC in one of her classes postulated that it would be extremely difficult, without extant sources, to discern the meaning and true intent of some of the writers in the OT, Paul in this case. Although we were engaged in a language class (chewing into the Greek of the NT) rather than a theological one, the assertion, in my opinion, holds true.
These are LETTERS, let's not forget; common correspondance between co-religioners which was intended to exhort, encourage and clarify. We, 2000 years later, have "elevated" these letter to the exalted sphere of the "word of God." There is inherent danger here. Inspired as they may have been, context MUST be ascertained in order to more or less have a level of certainty about content. We can not utilize 21 century social mores and values, historical hindsight, current perspectives and belief systems to extrapolate from a 2000 year old letter without any other source as comparative axis.