Fiannan
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Posts posted by Fiannan
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In the old world its basicly easy, the natives are the ones that always been there. The celts are the irish since the creation of man kind. But America is extremly diffrent, the natives are the indians. But Americans are from the old world, diffrent people of diffrent races all merged together.
But a lot of Americans complain of immigration even if thats what the nation is built on. Its not like Sweden and England that where allies during the crusade in the year 1100. Its a brand new Nation 200 years old, what with todays standard could be the life span of a father and son.
When did a distinction between American and immigrant come? And how can Americans on Idol tell Simon the englishman to go back home to England, and be hostile towards him for not being an American when them themselves have english blood and dont live in a English nation.
What I am saying might sound like babble but it is realy confusing and yet intressting
What are you talking about. There's no debate about immigration. There is distress of ILLEGAL immigration - you know, breaking the law, or do you think crime is irrelevant?
Given your support for eugenics, and your arrogant comments like "best and the brightest," I have a hard time believing you would have let in hardly any of the immigrants that came through Ellis Island.<div class='quotemain'> Also, the USA should only take in the best and brightest from other nations -- that was the cornerstone of US immigration policies in the past and that was the purpose of setting up checkpoints like Ellis Island (to find and send back anyone with criminal histories, genetic defects and dangerous diseases).
Elphaba
The idea of best and brightest is an excellent one. It should be one criteria for legal immigration. We need all the smart gals and guys we can get.
Hey, did you catch the Ali G movie where he gets elected to parliamment in England and enacts a law to only allow pretty girls to immigrate to England because there are so few there now? The screening scene was absolutely hillarious.
But seriously, the immigration policy of the USA used to be based on the idea of getting the best, brightest and healthiest people here. That's what Ellis Island was all about. Also, it is a myth that the only people who came to the USA were the poor and downtrodden. Adam Smith and Charles Darwin noted that the USA would become a great nation because it was the innovative middle classes that were leaving Europe and establishing a new life in the US. Hey, a ticket to go to America was way too expensive for the poor to afford.
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I don't personally know anyone who is against immigration.
I know plenty of people who are against illegal immigration.
Not all Americans have English blood in their veins. In fact, English blood is largely a mixture of Germanic and French descent (thanks to William the Conqueror and the Saxons).
Actually William the Conqueror led armies made up of Normans -- a people mostly the descendants of Danish Vikings who colonized northern France. How else could an army of French people actually win a war?
Immigration should be controlled -- with heavy penalties on businesses that hire illegals. Also, the USA should only take in the best and brightest from other nations -- that was the cornerstone of US immigration policies in the past and that was the purpose of setting up checkpoints like Ellis Island (to find and send back anyone with criminal histories, genetic defects and dangerous diseases).
You know, the American Indians had lousy immigration control and look what happened to them.
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I see. I hope, though, that you're not saying all of us liberals are products of the same mold! And I believe the core principles of "political correctness" are basic courtesy and tact, such as not using the "n word" in reference to black people, etc. Of course, being the liberal I am, I firmly believe in freedom of speech, and would defend people's right to say offensive things (though I would advise against it)! PC? Maybe not, but freedom of speech is, in my book, a higher value.The ideological foundation of an area will determine not only laws but attitudes. The Willamette Valley area of Oregon is very politically liberal -- many hippies stuck around after the 60s and make up a large percentage of the professionals in education and as for yuppies who get really bothered by anything that goes out of the area of political correctness...
Is the culture in the eastern part of the state different? I have an LDS friend from eastern Oregon who is VERY conservative.And I am actually not all that adverse to Oregon. Then again, most of my friends are either agnostics or atheists so I tend to get along with a broad range of fold (I've been told more than once by Muslims I have known that I would make a terrific Muslim yet at the same time I can greatly enjoy being at the Oregon Country Fair (google that one, filter off if you dare). The only people I have encountered that I really can't stand are people in administrative posts in Oregon schools. If I lived there again I think home-schooling would be a must. Don't get me started on how schools in Oregon shortchanged my kids.
I think this hysteria about sex offenses has gotten a bit out of hand. I've heard of six-year-old children getting in legal trouble for kissing other children!! When I was a kid that was considered cute. 'Course, I remember the days before trick-or-treating was considered life-threatening.
*sigh*
Dror
Hey. ovrall Oregon is a very special place. The only down side is that too many environmentalists who have never even seen a spotted owl or been to Oregon have caused many small towns to collapse by shutting off timber sales, there is a really arrogant education bureaucracy in the state, and taxes are too high.
As for rank and file people you have an ecclectic mix of spoiled yuppies in the Portland area (many California transplants who didn't get the hint in 1970 when the governor then asked them to visit but not to stay), red necks and librtarian hippies in the southern section, hard-core conservatives west of the Cascade Mountains, aging hippies in Eugene who vote more liberal than any place except San Francisco or Berkely, and mixes in between. Nice thing is people generally are very tolerant and laid back. So yeah, Mormons there are very conservative but not at all judgemental for the most part (if born ansd raised there), hippies go to home school meetings with Christian fundamentalists and you feel totally at ease dressing up in a cowgirl outfit and going to a rodeo (if you are female, or male in many parts of Portland) and then the next day running around at a hippie festival in a tie.dyed bra the next day. And hippies there belong to the NRA.
It's really a fun place. But as I said I would definently home school if I lived there now.
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Since caramel used to color the drinks seems to be a problem then what about drinks like diet Mountain Dew`?
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Fiannan,
I'm still scratching my head as to what this has to do with "hippies and politically correct yuppies!"
In any case, I agree that they're making too big a deal of it. I would say give them detention or something the first time, and notify their parents. If they continue the behavior they could work their way up to a suspension. Only if they're truly incorrigible would I have gotten the police involved. Yes, teens can commit serious crimes, but patting somebody's rear end, while definitely inappropriate, is not as serious as other things they could be doing.
Dror
The ideological foundation of an area will determine not only laws but attitudes. The Willamette Valley area of Oregon is very politically liberal -- many hippies stuck around after the 60s and make up a large percentage of the professionals in education and as for yuppies who get really bothered by anything that goes out of the area of political correctness...
And I am actually not all that adverse to Oregon. Then again, most of my friends are either agnostics or atheists so I tend to get along with a broad range of fold (I've been told more than once by Muslims I have known that I would make a terrific Muslim yet at the same time I can greatly enjoy being at the Oregon Country Fair (google that one, filter off if you dare). The only people I have encountered that I really can't stand are people in administrative posts in Oregon schools. If I lived there again I think home-schooling would be a must. Don't get me started on how schools in Oregon shortchanged my kids.
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LOL!!!! Very astute observation! I thought I was the only person here who felt like this man has a fetish about all things sexual.<div class='quotemain'>
Hey, one other funny thing I forgot. Ever notice how in movies and TV programs when a villian repents and goes right he or she dies in the end (and like on all those old Bonanza shows dies in the arms of the good guy explaining how good is best? Wait, that was also in Star Wars).
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<div class='quotemain'> Fiannen I knew if you added anything there would be SOMETHING about someone getting naked.
In psychology one might ask why would you take notice of that?
Maybe because it is quite obvious.
Yeah, and perhaps many find it more comfortable to employ denial to those things that have anything to do sex and reproduction?
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First, I guess it is true that teachers who can't teach get go into administration.
Also, they were not with parents when they were being interrogated by the police? Isn't that illegal? I can only hope it is and that there has to be some lawyers out there who will take their case and hopefully get the school district to pay for these boy's college educations and maybe some neat things for the lawyers as well.
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Oregon, the bastion of hippies and politically correct yuppies. Guess I thought it had to be Oregon when I read the headline on another site:
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/v...sf?LC_11SPAN122
http://dennisprager.townhall.com/blog.aspx...24-a80ef23eafa3
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/i....xml&coll=7
Any comments? Is the school and the DA doing what is right?
From the Oregonian newspaper article:
The two boys tore down the hall of Patton Middle School after lunch, swatting the bottoms of girls as they ran -- what some kids later said was a common form of greeting.
But bottom-slapping is against policy in McMinnville Public Schools. So a teacher's aide sent the gawky seventh-graders to the office, where the vice principal and a police officer stationed at the school soon interrogated them.
After hours of interviews with students the day of the February incident, the officer read the boys their Miranda rights and hauled them off in handcuffs to juvenile jail, where they spent the next five days.
Now, Cory Mashburn and Ryan Cornelison, both 13, face the prospect of 10 years in juvenile detention and a lifetime on the sex offender registry in a case that poses a fundamental question: When is horseplay a crime?
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Hey, one other funny thing I forgot. Ever notice how in movies and TV programs when a villian repents and goes right he or she dies in the end (and like on all those old Bonanza shows dies in the arms of the good guy explaining how good is best? Wait, that was also in Star Wars).
LOL!!!! Very astute observation! I thought I was the only person here who felt like this man has a fetish about all things sexual.<div class='quotemain'> Fiannen I knew if you added anything there would be SOMETHING about someone getting naked.
In psychology one might ask why would you take notice of that?
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And to add a few others:
Nobody in the future needs to go to the bathroom -- ever seen a bathroom on a sci-fi spacecraft?
Two blonds in the woods after their boyfriends mysteriously disappear will always strip off and go skinnydipping even when they know a psychotic murderere has escaped from prison.
Gay men never play gay men in TV shows.
Nobody ever gets shot in the private regions in war movies.
All '80s movies have a burning trash can in a night scene in a movie.
You never have a psychotic, satan worshipping, demon possessed, etc. rabbi in an American produced TV program. Plenty of priests and ministers though.
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The_Big_Pictue I am curious. The Islamic view of the final battle with the anti-Christ, does Jesus just destroy the Jewish armies who are serving the anti-Christ or does he destroy all Jews? That could indicate some of the origins of Muslim and Jewish tension.
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<div class='quotemain'>and the anti-Christ he will be white and red, and even Mohammed is thought of as being red-headed.
Maybe the antichrist is Conan O Brian?
Are you saying that redheads are Gods choosen people? Remember the devil is always red.
Well yeah redheads are hot and freckles are cute
Not sure but this is what Islam says about the return of Jesus -- seems he'll have quit a temper (a trait red-heads seem to be associated with):
The Killing of Dajjal (anti-Christ) and the Victory of the Muslims
After the completion of Congregational dawn Prayer, Jesus (a.s.) will open the door behind him where Dajjal accompanied by 70,000 Jews will be. He will indicate with his hand to move away between him (Jesus (a.s.)) and Dajjal. Dajjal will then see Jesus (a.s.). At that time every Infidel (kafir) on whom the breath of Jesus (a.s.) will reach will die. His breath will reach up to the distance of his eyesight. The Muslims will then come down from the mountains and break loose on the army of Dajjal. There will be war, Dajjal will retreat, and Jesus (a.s.) will pursue Dajjal. Jesus (a.s.) will have two flexible swords and one shield with him and with these he will kill Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd. He will show the Muslims the blood of Dajjal which will get on his shield. Eventually the Jews will be selected and killed. The swine will be killed and the cross broken. People will revert to Islam. Wars will end, and people will return to their respective nations. One group of Muslims will remain in his service and companionship.
Jesus (a.s.) will go to Congregational dawn Rawha and perform Haj or Umrah (or both) from there. He will also go to the grave of Prophet Mohammad (s)and present his greetings Prophet Mohammad (s) will reply. People will live comfortable lives. The wall of Yajooj and Majooj (Gog and Magog) will then break.
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You want my answer? I would not be thrilled with it at all (despite the fact that Joseph was probably in his 40s and Mary was 14). However, what if she were 18?
Would you give your permission for your 14 yr old daughter to be married to a 30 or 40 yr old if he had no children already?
What does his having children have to do with it? I think I said 18 was the age I think a woman is capable of determining who she wants to be married to.
The reason I put that stipulation into the question is bc you sd something about older men marrying younger women and not allowing the new wife to have babies bc they were finished with child-rearing. I was wondering if that part was not an issue, if you would allow your daughter marry at 14. And you never answered my question. I got the feeling from a previous post that people having a problem with 14 yr olds marrying was bc of the media... hence I thought you may agree with 14 yr olds marrying. If not, why?
I am not morally opposed to allowing younger teenagers to marry -- and most states allow them to do so with parental permission (although it is usually 16 for females). That being said I would not see it as the ideal. I don't like the idea of inter-racial marriage but that doesn't mean I would look down on someone who did marry outside their race (I have several friends who live in such marriages) but I would discourage my children from dating outside their race or religion (even though I have to say I did both when I was younger and single).
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You want my answer? I would not be thrilled with it at all (despite the fact that Joseph was probably in his 40s and Mary was 14). However, what if she were 18?
Would you give your permission for your 14 yr old daughter to be married to a 30 or 40 yr old if he had no children already?
What does his having children have to do with it? I think I said 18 was the age I think a woman is capable of determining who she wants to be married to.
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Please check out Robert Epstein's work on the myth of teenagers. His points out that in countries where teen culture has not been created to sell products (via media) there is no real teen angst. It's like when the topic of the age of Joseph Smith's wives occasionally surfaces here people fail to realize that the whole looking at teens as big children did not come about until recently in the 20th. Century in the USA.
After all, Mary was 14 when God chose her for impregnation with Jesus, David was 14 when he killed Goliath and Joseph Smith was 14 when he had his first vision.
Oh cool then, you've changed my mind about letting my 14 year old daughter marry this 40 year old she has a crush on.
How ridiculous!(I don't really have a daughter... just making a point.)
Don't you have a daughter about that age, Fiannan? Would you let her get married to some older man? It would be OK, because I'm sure he'd love her for her intellect, not her youthful innocence.
You want my answer? I would not be thrilled with it at all (despite the fact that Joseph was probably in his 40s and Mary was 14). However, what if she were 18? This issue has come up before and I have siad my only problem with major differences in ages is that many men already have kids (often older than their young wives) and refuse to let their younger wives have kids. So what would I do if my daughter in 11 years reaches 18 and then fell for a guy in his 30s or even 40s who was a great member of the church, wanted to raise kids and shared the same interests as she did? Ask what day I should plan for the temple ceremony! No, I personally don't think people should get married until 18 and above but then again I have a neice who married at 14 (pregnant) and they have been together for about 30 years so far -- and have three very well-adjusted kids.
Strange irony about these debates on teenagers though. In my state a 16 year old can get an abortion without parental permission or even notification but she cannot get her ears pierced and cannot see an R-rated movie in school without a signed paper from her parent. That is the case in many states. Heck, Missoiri just passed a law that a minor cannot even get a wax below the belt without parental permission but I'll bet she can get an abortion. Ironic, huh?
I saw a video the other day on the net showing US servicemen executing a 16 year old German male for "spying" in 1945. Strange the US seemed okay with this sort of thing then -- maybe there wasn't much of a distinction for teens in those days.
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Lol, they're made in just the same way you or anyone else is made! It's all in the genes...
My daughter is red haired and freckled, I'm dark haired and freckled...neither of us has any 'disease'...that was just a un PC joke made on South Park once...cos everybody knows that people with ginger hair gets bullied cos of it!!
It is normal to be ginger...
Maybe that's why red-heads seem a bit "off" at times. If they are always picked on and maybe that makes them more retrospective. I have read also that Buddha was a red head (he was an upper class person and Aryan and all the old statues of him I have seen in China depict him as blue-eyed), Some speculate that Jesus was red-headed and Mohammed said that when he comes back to decimate the Jewish armies and the anti-Christ he will be white and red, and even Mohammed is thought of as being red-headed. Since the tribe of Joseph was often red-headed and pale maybe Lehi was too.
P.S. Many of the pharoahs of Egypt in the early dynasties were red-headed.
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I don't know, I think most "original" or ethnic Swedes tend to look like this:
Daughter of the Swedish king.
The current prime minister of Sweden, from one news article I read, has a great great grandmother (something like that) who was an American black woman so maybe he doesn't look as "Swedish". My wife is a Swede but has dark brown hair and blue/hazel eyes but everyone else in her family is really blond. I think blond hair is dying out in Sweden since most immigrants are from lands that are darker and when they intermarry dark genes are dominant over light ones.
I find studies on race interesting since, when I was looking into the Church, I thought it odd that Nephites were described as really light. I thought Jews were dark until I looked into it more carefully. Also, the tribe of Joseph was characterized as being pale and with light brown or red hair. So soemthing that might have made me wonder about the church initially was cleared up through research.
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I read that Mohammed was red-headed and one of his wives was a blond -- is that true?
Esau is recored in the Bible as being red-headed and he was one of the contributers to the Arabic gene pool.
Yes that is very possible, but it could also be a disease like ginger vitus, its like albino but common, you have red hair and frickles, you are a little more sensitive to the sun but its no big defects.
Yes he had wifes of all kinds, 6 years, 60 years blonds...
There are africans where evereyone have blue eyes, The biggest afghan ethnicity are pashtuns it means (the green eyed people) all of them have green eyes,
The prime minister of Sweden
I realy think that Idea of blond and blue eyed westerner is getting a bit old fashioned, even do Hollywood keeps the tradition on with "Alexander" and "300".
I have a friend who is from Afghanistan -- she looks like the cartoon character Dora (though 20-something) but she says she has blond and red headed family members -- her grandmother was pale with blue eyes and red hair. She is Pushtun. Traditionally the Pushtuns are supposed to be part of the "lost" Ten Tribes so they are probably what the Hebrews/Jews looked like in the days of Jesus. Of course the Afghans have mixed with various tribes that have left the people a bit darker than they were originally (same with the Iranians from what I understand).
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I read that Mohammed was red-headed and one of his wives was a blond -- is that true?
Esau is recored in the Bible as being red-headed and he was one of the contributers to the Arabic gene pool.
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Maybe there's a list somewhere in the church media guide. My wife was watching a re-run of MASH the other day and one of the main doctors in the series also stared in a home-teaching training video from the 70s. Kinda curious what that one was called as well.
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<div class='quotemain'>I believe, that whenever a blond girl visits places in the Middle East a lot of guys call her a whore (or worse) unless she is with a man (then she gets respect).
Lol by the way I have a theory about blonds, whenever I am in the middle east I see more blond boys and men than I see in the west. especially kurdish and afghan immigrants.
Then you go back to the west, and you see almost no blond male, but everey other woman is blond, wich is strange.
Are the Kurd and Afghani guys dying their hair? I know there are a few people born in those regions displaying the characteristics of the people back in the days of the Bible but they aren't all that common, or are they?
As for guys in the west it may be the 1980s "gay man cut" (hair avove the ears) that has been popular for a few years now that makes one's hair look darker.
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My favorite person in church history is Jane mansfield.
Wasn't she an actress?
I really don't think Jane Mansfield was LDS in the least.
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Lol, thats not what I mean. Yes Iranians are also extremly poor but its nothing special. There are milions of americans that cant even eat 3 times a day, that dont afford going to the hospital, and have a house that is about to break but cant fix it.
But yet videos from America shows big mansions, and nice cars.
That video is just as "one sided" as any hollywood movie about America.
Heres a video of Iranian supercars, Lamborghini, Hummer et c.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KwTlqr3ips
Western media goes to the poor areas of Iran to show Iran, its like someone wanted to show America and goes to a gettho.
Yeah, Michael Moore capitalizes on that. American TV is also the reason, I believe, that whenever a blond girl visits places in the Middle East a lot of guys call her a whore (or worse) unless she is with a man (then she gets respect).
Hollywood poisons th view that the world has of America. Yeah, plenty of people in the USA can't make ends meet and live in modest homes. But Hollywood presents reality to the world of either ghettos or Beverly Hills. If middle Americans are presented they are generally victims needing the government to save them or just plain old stupid "red necks".
Middle eastern people are presented as backward and as terrorists, Russians are prostitutes or mafia...the list can go on and on.
Just don't forget -- the typical Hollywood person is also a liberal Democrat.
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Please check out Robert Epstein's work on the myth of teenagers. His points out that in countries where teen culture has not been created to sell products (via media) there is no real teen angst. It's like when the topic of the age of Joseph Smith's wives occasionally surfaces here people fail to realize that the whole looking at teens as big children did not come about until recently in the 20th. Century in the USA.
After all, Mary was 14 when God chose her for impregnation with Jesus, David was 14 when he killed Goliath and Joseph Smith was 14 when he had his first vision.
Who Is An American?
in General Discussion
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Elphaba, the problem with screening people out in the days of Ellis Island was that the sheer numbers of people coming in made it impossible to individually process everyone. However, especially in the early part of the 20th. Century the ideal was that screening would take place. You are correct that only 1 in 50 people were denied entry but again, the notion of screening was there (it was just impractical).
However, it is notable that it was the entrepreneurial people who tended to be the pioneers to the USA. The people who left Europe wanted something better. The desperately poor could not afford to leave, those satisfied there stayed and the rich stayed. Those who support the notion of the risk-taking personality (type T) feel this explains both our greatness as well as a high crime rate.
So keep up the condescending attitude Elphaba -- it's still fun to debate 'ya.