daizymae

We did a "Night at Bethlehem" themed Christmas party in our ward a couple of years ago. Everyone dressed up and we decorated the cultural hall like Bethlehem and acted out the Nativity. For the kids, we had the bishopric dressed like the 3 wisemen to give out gifts since we didn't feel like it would be in keeping with the tone we wanted to set to have Santa Claus show up. It was a lot of work, but turned out wonderfully and everybody had a great time. I think I still have Nativity scripts and all the decoration ideas saved somewhere....if you're interested, I'll dig them up!

I thought about using that one....but it looked too much like the evil side of the Walmart smilie face.

Where's the "laughing hysterically" smilie when you need one???

I think you're missing the boat if you think the basis of this conversation is sweatshops. You were the first person to bring up sweatshops. From my perspective, the discussion has a lot more to do with total business ethics than how the goods being sold are made (though that plays a part in the overall picture).

I replied to this and it didn't come through.. I think you are suffering from a tad of paranoia... I didn't say anything about YOU... And if you are so interested in being the good LDS... consider Brigham Youngs teachings: It is a fool who takes offense when none was intended... and he is still a fool when he takes offense even if offense was intended... ← Gee thanks Please....you're right...what would I do without you???

Again...that's easy for you to say because you haven't had a negative experience with Walmart. More than one person here has, so I think it's a little more than a personal rant. It didn't make to 8 pages without your help

And on that note, I'll put in a plug for the primary elections that are going on in many communities tomorrow....GET OUT AND VOTE!! :)

Good grief....you make it sound like I support other evil practices just because they don't have anything to do with money. I was referring to a specific scripture, that's all. ← I can't help the way you took it... good grief! ← Took it what way?? The way you said it?? ← Don't be such an idiot... ← Perhaps you can help me by clarifying the basis for comment that started all this. I referred to a scripture that says the love of money is the root of all evil. You responded by saying that (in as many words) there are more evil things than money. If you weren't insinuating that I think the love of money is more evil than the things you mentioned, then what was the basis for your comment?? To be cute? Funny perhaps? Due to the fact that the conversation we are engaged in has a lot to do with money, and nothing to do with rape, incest, child molestation, and wife beating I just wasn't quite sure where you were going with all that. ← KEY WORD INSINUATE..... I never insinuate... I alway say just what I mean... ask anyone here... ← OK....then take out the word INSINUATE....and then answer the question. I just don't get what your comment had to do with the topic.

Outshined....perhaps you could continue here (or start a new thread) sharing some of the research you've done regarding this topic....you have done some, haven't you? You seem to have the attitude that since there are a ton of other businesses out there that have unethical practices, it's just too much work to speak out against it. Seamusz obviously holds a pretty strong negative perception of Walmart....but he's never said that he loves all of those other businesses. I don't see the double standard that you are describing. I see someone who is fighting for a cause that he believes strongly in. He hasn't claimed to be perfect. Heck, he might even have a pair of Nike's in his closet. But at least he is making an effort to do what he believes to be right. I think the point of this thread was to get people thinking....in this particular case, about Walmart....but on a broader range, we, as Latter-Day Saints, need to stand up for honesty. It's not always convenient, and it's not always cheap. But if we ignore the facts, or choose to not even inform ourselves (on ANY topic....not just Walmart), then are we not perpetuating the cycle of deception and support it's continuacne?

Good grief....you make it sound like I support other evil practices just because they don't have anything to do with money. I was referring to a specific scripture, that's all. ← I can't help the way you took it... good grief! ← Took it what way?? The way you said it?? ← Don't be such an idiot... ← Perhaps you can help me by clarifying the basis for comment that started all this. I referred to a scripture that says the love of money is the root of all evil. You responded by saying that (in as many words) there are more evil things than money. If you weren't insinuating that I think the love of money is more evil than the things you mentioned, then what was the basis for your comment?? To be cute? Funny perhaps? Due to the fact that the conversation we are engaged in has a lot to do with money, and nothing to do with rape, incest, child molestation, and wife beating I just wasn't quite sure where you were going with all that.

Good grief....you make it sound like I support other evil practices just because they don't have anything to do with money. I was referring to a specific scripture, that's all. ← I can't help the way you took it... good grief! ← Took it what way?? The way you said it??

Good grief....you make it sound like I support other evil practices just because they don't have anything to do with money. I was referring to a specific scripture, that's all.

I have!!

Now, I honestly, sincerely don't mean this in a rude way....but sometimes you just don't make much sense.

And when Walmart gives you the boot, you'll probably feel the same way. Seamusz hasn't gone into specifics about whether or not Walmart has given him the boot, but I can speak from experience. I have more than one family member who has a business that has suffered or failed directly because of Walmart. One doesn't generally have a passion for something without a reason. Most people don't get out and aggressively raise research money for cancer until they or someone in their family gets it. Most people don't join in efforts to inform people about this cause or that unless they have been directly affected by it. Of course most of you find Walmart as happy a place as that cutesy little yellow smiley face of theirs.....but most of you have not been out of a job or lost a business because of them (and yada, yada, yada to all the comments that are sure to follow saying that Walmart probably didn't really have much to do with it anyway ). Shop at Walmart to your heart's content. But keep in mind while you're doing it that Walmart does not care about your community. Walmart does not care about your neighbors. Walmart does not care about you. Walmart cares about money....and don't we learn in the scriptures that the love of money is the root of all evil??

Really, there is no way to know....but I'd bet that they wouldn't have been as likely to close. Do you really think you get great service at Walmart? It's a rare occasion when I go to Walmart and get a friendly "hello" when I walk in and a "thanks for shopping with us" when I leave. I hope your experience has been different. One thing I will hand to Walmart is that they don't make me flash a fancy little card on my keychain to get my "savings".

I wish I knew where to find a particular study that I read a few years ago. The outcome showed that intially, Walmart & Sam's Club increased the number of jobs in a community, but that over time, the unemployment rate went up as businesses closed. I can't remember any details, so I'm not stating any of this as fact....just my 2 cents. <!--QuoteBegin-Outshined @Sep 30 2005, 05:48 PMEdit: I can give a good example. I often buy building materials at Home Depot or Lowe's for the price, but go to a mom-and-pop hardware store for some things because the owner is knowledgeable about some technical things on which the others are clueless, and will often have hard-to-find parts and such. He does well because he has items the big chains don't carry, and he can give good advice on projects. I often shop this way as well.....but more so for "specialty" items rather than everyday items...but like you said, you're much more likely to receive advice and knowledge in a small business than you will in the large chains.....which, again, is part of the service you are paying for.

I made this point in the very first post I made on this thread. I'm not claiming to be holier than thou.....I'm not claiming that I've never set foot in a Walmart store....I'm not claiming that every single item I buy comes from local merchants. I am claiming that I try hard to support local businesses....and not just that, but those who I believe to be honest and ethical. When was the last time you saw people picketing against a Target, Home Depot, Kmart, or stores who sell the name brands you mention on your local news?? I'm not sure that I ever have, unless the building of the store threatens homes or the safety of a neighborhood. And yet, it's not uncommon at all to see people in an uproar when they hear a Walmart is coming to town. If they were as ethical and wonderful as they make themselves out to be, then who would have a problem with them coming to town? Not me!

But that doesn't make it OK. Should we not hold ourselves responsible to be loyal to and support businesses that we believe to be operating honestly and ethically? They are out there, believe it or not.

Certainly not every business that goes out of business is going to do so simply because of Walmart. But for many businesses (I'm talking the small ones....even Storehouse, though local, was a fairly large business...and if their business was unethical, then no amount of pleasant benefits for customers would have saved them) Walmart plays a large part in their demise. As for Walmart being a clean and friendly place to shop.....I'm sure it depends greatly on your area, but those in places that I have lived leave a lot to be desired! Good service is something that we all appreciate in a business. You'll find crappy service in some small businesses as well. I used to work in a bookstore that had a crab of an owner. People hated coming in for fear that they would have to deal with her. Personally, I think you're more likely to find pleasant customer service from employees who know that they are appreciated and being paid what they are worth....and I doubt that you'll find many checkers at Walmart that would give you glowing reviews about their jobs.

Yes, it's nice to save money. We're poor. There's very little in our income for extras. And yet we can survive without Walmart. Doesn't anybody remember life BEFORE Walmart? Was everyone destitute then? That's not the way I remember it (though I was young when Walmart came to my town, so maybe my parents just did a good job making us seem like we had enough to live on). Small business can't compete with Walmart (heck, from what I've heard, not even Walmart will compete with Walmart). But they can compete with each other.....too bad they aren't given the chance, because most of them will close after Walmart comes to town.

Yes, but something Walmart isn't going to toot their horn about is the fact the money they put toward the hurricane took away from money that they donate to other charities, with the biggest chunk coming from the Children's Miracle Network. My dad works for the company that prints the paper balloons you purchase for a buck at Walmart to support CMN, and as soon as the hurricane hit, Walmart cancelled a huge order (an almost $1 million order) for the printing of their promotional campaign for their CMN charity drive. Now tell me....does Walmart not make enough money to continue their current charity donations AND support hurricane victims??? A few million dollars is pocket change to them, but the loss of income for that printing company was huge! I've seen first hand what Walmart can do to a small-town family business. I've seen people lose good jobs when Walmart puts their employer out of business....and they either have to relocate to find another job or go to work for the very company that cost them their job. People have the attitude that if they can't compete, then too bad. But it is IMPOSSIBLE for a small business to compete with Walmart and still make a profit. I make a point to support local businesses. That's not to say that I never shop at Walmart, but I certainly try to avoid it. I would much rather pay a few extra dollars and support the guy next door than save a few bucks to support a corporation that could really care less about my community.

I hope that none of my statements have led anyone to believe that I don't think a prophet holds his own opinions. Looking back in what I've said in this conversation, my comments have focused on teachings of the prophets to the church as a whole, which I believe are based on revelation or understanding given by the Lord. Snow has made some good arguments, and, as he has pointed out, he has a vast knowledge of church history. My beef with his position in regards to this particular topic is his use of the word "proof". As I'm sure he knows, the origins of the policy have not been definitively traced.....there is no solid "for sure" evidence that the policy was instated by Joseph Smith, which leaves some to believe that it much have originated with Brigham Young. Other's believe that President Young would not have instituted the ban himself, but rather continued the teachings of Joseph Smith. The fact that later prophets did not repeal the ban does not mean that they did not have a desire to know whether it had a place in the church. President Kimball himself said that his predecessors had sought the Lord's will concerning the policy and that for whatever reason, the time was not right. President McKay said that he did not see a scriptural or doctrinal basis for the policy and relied on his faith that the time would come when the Lord would grant understanding. If we don't know for sure how the teachings began, how are we to know, with abosulte certainty or proof, if they were due to revelation or misunderstanding? Unless and until the church takes an official position, we are each entitled to make what we can of the informatin that we do have.....and it's no big deal for us to disagree. But, IMO, for one to stand up and say that he has proof....that isn't right. Not even the church has said that they have proof, one way or the other, so how can you Snow?

Me too I agree that our appearance has a lot to do with how we carry ourselves, but that can be manifested different ways by different people. You compare someone who stays in their jammies most of the day with someone who wears a business suit every day. The one in pj's might carry themself the same way in jeans and a t-shirt that the businessperson carries themself in a tuxedo. It has a lot to do with what our norm is. Someone who doesn't have much might wear a nices pair of jeans to church and feel very dressed up and feel like they are giving their best to the Lord.....and two rows down you might have a girl in a casual skirt and flip-flops, who obviously dressed simply for comfort. So who's right? The one who wore a dress because that's what is considered "approrpiate" or the one who dressed with their best in mind?