hethathathears
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Posts posted by hethathathears
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lkjh nnjhiu hlkjhugtg
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I so agree.
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Jesus said, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matt 12:40
I believe every story found in the scriptures as true, but I also believe that they are rooted in types and shadows as well as symbolism.
For example, Moses and the 10 plagues thrust upon Egypt. Why 10? It seems to me that one or two really big ones would have done the trick. I have come to learn that because Egypt had so many gods, the Lord used these plagues to demonstrate that HE, the ALMIGHTY was more powerful that all the other gods.
Egyptian Nile god Hopi- and yet the ALMIGHTY turned the night to blood thus killing all the fish. The Egyptians went to their god Hopi for relief but none was given.
Egyptian goddess Hept- was believed to help in childbirth. This goddess had a head of a frog and a body of a woman. When the frogs came, the Egyptians went and knelt at the foot of Hept for relief, and yet again, none came until the LORD took the plague away.
Next came flies and lice- The Egyptians often used flies or beetle as a symbol of their most powerful sun god RA. Again, as the people prostituted themselves before this stone image no relief was given.
RA was also hit upon with the 3 days of darkness.
When the livestock was destroyed, the Egyptians went to their gods Apis and Mnevis to restore their herds. No luck.
And on and on it goes. There are so many layer in the writings of God. If we would just have the faith to discover their beauty.
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Oh happy day
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Israel and Iran
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Israel and Iran
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Israel and Iran
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Israel and Iran
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As Moses led the Children of Israel through the wilderness they began to be hungry. Instead of humbly petitioning the Lord through prayer, the people complained to Moses-
If only we had died by the Lord's hand in Egypt! There we sat around pots of meat and ate all the food we wanted, but you have brought us out into this desert to starve this entire assembly to death. Ex 16:3
So the Lord sent down bread from heaven, giving specific instructions to only gather one days worth. However, many didn't listen but gathered more which became infested with maggots and stank. And for the day before the sabbath, the people were given instruction to gather two days worth, for no Manna would fall on the Sabbath, but again, few listened, and went without.
To this the Lord questioned Moses- HOW LONG WILL YOU REFUSE TO KEEP MY COMMANDS AND MY INSTRUCTIONS? Ex 16:28
He went on to say, IN THIS WAY I WILL TEST THEM AND SEE WHETHER THEY WILL FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS. EX 16:4
In our day, the Lord has given us council through our prophet to prepare both temporally (Getting a year supply of food and water) and spiritually. I was talking to a member last night that said the major emphases is on Spiritual Preparedness, and if we are Spiritual, if anything happens, the Lord will protect us.
It seems the Martin Handcart company tried the same kind of thinking. They faithfully trudged to Winter quarters, however, when they were counseled to stay, because it was so late in the season, they disregard the council of the leaders because the felt their righteousness would protect them.
The same was true at Haun's Mill. The Saints there was counseled to come and be among the Saint for protection from the mobs, but they refused claiming that because of their righteousness, the Lord would protect them.
We need to follow the prophet, IN THIS WAY I WILL TEST THEM AND SEE WHETHER THEY WILL FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS.
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There is power in the word of God; there is power in reading the scriptures. Any behavior, attitude, or inclination, can be changed if the person reading will be humble enough to try![/QUOTE]
If we have a bar of medal and we hook a wire to each end, and run current through it, the bar of medal becomes a magnet that attracts on one side while the other side repels things. The same is true with us. If we run spiritual current through our bodies in the form of scripture study, spiritual music, obedience, and service then we will attract spiritual things while repelling the things of the world, however, if we run the worldly current through our bodies, then we will attract worldly things while repelling spiritual things. But here is where it gets a little dicey, if we try to run the worldly current through our bodies 165 hours a week and then run the spiritual current through the other 3, then we will be polarized to attract worldly things and repel the spiritual.
Bottom line, there is great power in reading the scriptures in a feasting way.
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I would like to break the chain of thought here a little about coveting. In our day and age, our wives and our daughters are asked to dress modestly as a sign that they are daughters of their Heavenly Father. But another reason is for the men around them. I heard a radio program about a month ago that spoke on the subject of modesty. The husband of the speaker confessed to her that men have the ability to see cladly dressed and immodest women throughout the day, and fantasize about them at any given time. I believe that it's these fantasizes that come under the realms of coveting in our day and age, something that we need to be very careful of.
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Gen 6:5
for this reason we should Cast down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. 2 Corinth 10:5
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Israel and Iran
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If you go onto the Internet to look at World Religions and Beliefs, you will learn that-
1- Christianity_____________________________2,100,000,000
2- Islam__________________________________1,500,000,000
3- Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist__________1,100,000,000
4- Hinduism_________________________________900,000,000
5- Chinese traditional religio_n__________________ 394,000,000
6- Buddhism________________________________ 376,000,000
7- Primal Indigenous__________________________ 300,000,000
8- African Traditional and Diaspora_______________ 100,000,000
9- Sikhism___________________________________ 23,000,000
10- Juche____________________________________19,000,000
11- Spiritualism________________________________15,000,000
12- Judaism___________________________________14,000,000
13- Baha'i_____________________________________7,000,000
14- Jainism____________________________________4,200,000
15- Shintoism__________________________________4,000,000
16- Cao Pai____________________________________4,000,000
17- Zoroastrianism______________________________2,600,000
18- Tenrikyo___________________________________2,000,000
19- Neo Paganism_______________________________1,000,000
20- Unitarian Universalism__________________________800,000
21- Rastafarianism_______________________________600,000
22- Scientology__________________________________ 500,000
Now I'm guessing that a couple of these they might have rounded off a little. But of what I am seeing here is that 67% of the entire world do not know or believe in Jesus Christ. And that being said, if I am to believe the scriptures, which I do, they testify that there is only one name under heaven in which man kind may be saved.
And now, my brethren, I have spoken plainly that ye cannot err, And as the Lord God liveth that brought Israel up out of the land of Egypt, and gave unto Moses power that he should heal the nations after they had been bitten by the poisonous serpents, if they would cast their eyes unto the serpent which he did raise up before them, and also gave him power that he should smite the rock and the water should come forth, yea, behold I say unto you that as these things are true, and as the Lord God liveth, THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME GIVEN UNDER HEAVEN SAVE IT BE THIS JESUS CHRIST OF WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN WHEREBY MAN CAN BE SAVED. 2 Nephi 25:20
And now, behold my beloved brethren, this is the way, and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ... 2 Nephi 31:20
Behold, Jesus Christ is the name which is given of the Father, and there is none other name given whereby man can be saved. D & C 18:23
I was Jesus who said, "I am the way, the truth, and the Life, and no man cometh unto the Father except by me. John 14:6
For this reason, to be fair unto the world, I can see why the Lord said that out of the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. Matt18:16
The Book of Mormon is a second witness of Jesus Christ. One that can testify unto the other 67% of the World that Jesus is the only name under heaven wherefore they might be saved. It is for this reason, I can see in my own finite way why we need a second testament of Christ. After all, one of the most hated people on the earth today are the Jews or Israel, and that is where the Bible came from. How masterful the adversary had been to make that happen.
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Israel and Iran
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In another thread I answered the question to no archaeological proof to the Book of Mormon. This is just one more piece of the puzzle that there really were Nephites and Lamanites.
We have more. In Alma 49 Captain Moroni commissioned some of the bored Nephites to hedge up some of the weaker city in the Eastern Wilderness by the East Sea. Wow! I guess in 1967 Puleston and Callender 1967:40-48 wrote an article on a survey they did. Not to mention the Los Angeles Times article on August 14th, 1989. p. 3 that reads It's as if the Mayans were spending 75% of their budget on defense. But before I get to the article, let me state what it says in the Book of Mormon.
And behold, the city had been rebuilt, and Mormoni had stationed an army by the borders of the city, and they had CAST UP DIRT round about to shield them from the arrows and the stones of the Laminites, for behold, they fought with stones and with arrows... (Alma 49:2)
But behold, how great was their disappointment; for behold, the Nephites had DUG UP A RIDGE OF EARTH round about them, which was so high that the Lamanites could not cast their stones and their arrows at them that they might take effect, neither could they come upon them save it was by their PLACE OF ENTRANCE... (Alma 49:4)
Now behold, the Lamanites could not get into their FORTS OF SECURITY by any other way save BY THE ENTRANCE, because of the HIGHNESS OF THE BANK which had been thrown up, and the DEPTH of the ditch which had been dug around about, save it were by the ENTRANCE. (Alma 49:18)
Now consider the archaeological journal in 1967;
For the weeks, months, and even years one spends carry out fairly routine work there is always the possibility of stumbling on to something important that is totally unexpected. The discovery of what appears to be a 9 1/2 km long defensive earthworks 4.5 km north of the Great Plaza of Tikal is an example of just such a chance... Frankly, a defensive barrier of this magnitude or for that matter of any magnitude was not one of the things we expected to find in the process of a project to explore and map the outlying areas at Tikal...
The Tikal earthworks were discovered in the process of systematic mapping of the remains of house platforms and other structures along the 1/2 km. wide, 12 km. long strip which extends north from Tikal's center. The TRENCH is the most prominent feature of the earthworks, but when it was first discovered it appeared to be nothing more than a natural arroya or ravine. As we followed it however, it soon became evident that it was not a natural formation. First, it had a CONTINUOUS RAISED EMBANKMENT along the south side, and second it passed up and down over hills, following a fairly straight line. At several points where we came to low ground it seemed to disappear, and by continuing on we were always able to pick it up again on the next piece of high ground... Otherwise, the earthworks were easy to follow. We soon found it easiest to walk along in the trench itself, though occasionally fallen trees of great size blocked our path, forcing us to crawl though a dense tangle of branches or make a detour. We followed the trench in this way for a total of three days. Compass bearings were taken every 40 - 50 meters and distances were paced off as accurately as possible revealing finally a total of 9 1/2 km. At both the east and west ends the earthworks disappeared into large swamps through which they may or may not have continued...
With the realization that this new feature was not natural, but something constructed with great effort by the Maya themselves, we were left with the question of why? What was the function of this great trench and embankment situated so far from the center of Tikal? At first we considered the possibility that it might have served as a canal in a water distribution system of some kind. However, this intriguing idea had to be rejected on the basis of two factors, both of which precluded the extremely porous nature of the limestone bedrock, and second, the way in which the trench goes up and down the sides of large hills without changing its depth.
On the other hand, its POTENTIAL AS A BARRIER TO HUMAN MOVEMENT was obvious... Though we did not know its depth before we began excavation, the FOUR METER WIDTH of the trench posed an obstacle few Maya could have crossed by jumping To have tried to do so would have been additionally difficult for two reasons. 1st- for almost it's entire length outsiders would have had to run uphill to approach the trench, and second, they would have had to jump upwards, as well as across the trench to get onto the embankment which abutted the south lip... It should be remembered that this embankment must have been considerably steeper and higher a thousand years ago than it is today... THAT THE TRENCH WAS IMPASSABLE is suggested by the fact that at four or five widely separated points along it's length we found what appeared to be causeways across it. At each of these there was an equivalent gap in the embankment. If the earthworks were not a barrier to human passage these "GATES" would have little reason to exist...
Several days' work in the trench revealed that it had been cut into limestone bedrock to a depth of three meters and that in its original state the walls of the trench had been nearly vertical. clearly, anyone who might have fallen into it would have had some difficulty getting out...
THE LIMITED EXPLORATION OF MOST LOWLAND MAYA SITES MAKES IT IMPOSSILBE TO SAY THAT DEFENSIVE EARTHWORKS OF THIS NATURE ARE UNIQUE TO TIKAL OR EVEN RARE. The trench we have described above is crossed at one of its more impressive points by the well-traveled trail between Uzxactun and Tikal. Many well known archaeologists have crossed it without recognizing it for what it was, probably because with some discomfort as their mules slid down or scrambled up the steep south edge, who is to say that similar earthworks do not exist elsewhere? (Puleston and Callender 16967:40-48) Oh, did I mention that these surveyors were not members of the Church, never did they have any idea when they wrote this article of any future importance.
That is the end of the article, however, when I look on my MesoAmerican map, I see that Tikal is in the small country of Belize which is next to the EAST SEA. I guess that would be in the east wilderness. Other defensive earthworks sites have since been located at Becan, coba, and El Mirador. Yes and you guess it, they are all by the east coast or as the Book of Mormon puts it, the East Sea.
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Oh happy day! We have more. In Alma 49 Captain Moroni commissioned some of the bored Nephites to hedge up some of the weaker city in the Eastern Wilderness by the East Sea. Wow! I guess in 1967 Puleston and Callender 1967:40-48 wrote an article on a survey they did. Not to mention the Los Angeles Times article on August 14th, 1989. p. 3 that reads It's as if the Mayans were spending 75% of their budget on defense. But before I get to the article, let me state what it says in the Book of Mormon.
And behold, the city had been rebuilt, and Mormoni had stationed an army by the borders of the city, and they had CAST UP DIRT round about to shield them from the arrows and the stones of the Laminites, for behold, they fought with stones and with arrows... (Alma 49:2)
But behold, how great was their disappointment; for behold, the Nephites had DUG UP A RIDGE OF EARTH round about them, which was so high that the Lamanites could not cast their stones and their arrows at them that they might take effect, neither could they come upon them save it was by their PLACE OF ENTRANCE... (Alma 49:4)
Now behold, the Lamanites could not get into their FORTS OF SECURITY by any other way save BY THE ENTRANCE, because of the HIGHNESS OF THE BANK which had been thrown up, and the DEPTH of the ditch which had been dug around about, save it were by the ENTRANCE. (Alma 49:18)
Now consider the archaeological journal in 1967;
For the weeks, months, and even years one spends carry out fairly routine work there is always the possibility of stumbling o to something important that is totally unexpected. The discovery of what appears to be a 9 1/2 km long defensive earthworks 4.5 km north of the Great Plaza of Tikal is an example of just such a chance... Frankly, a defensive barrier of this magnitude or for that matter of any magnitude was not one of the things we expected to find in the process of a project to explore and map the outlying areas at Tikal...
The Tikal earthworks were discovered in the process of sysstematic mapping of the remains of house platforms and other structures along the 1/2 km. wide, 12 km. long strip which extends north from Tikal's center. The TRENCH is the most prominent feature of the earthworks, but when it was first discovered it appeared to be nothing more than a natural arroya or ravine. As we followed it however, it soon became evident that it was not a natural formation. First, it had a CONTINUOUS RAISED EMBANKMENT along the south side, and second it passed up and down over hills, following a fairly straight line. At several points where we came to low ground it seemed to disappear, and by continuing on we were always able to pick it up again on the next piece of high ground... Otherwise, the earthworks were easy to follow. We soon found it easiest to walk along in the trench itself, though occasionally fallen trees of great size blocked our path, forcing us to crawl though a dense tangle of branche3s or make a detour. We followed the trench in this way for a total of three days. Compass bearings were taken every 40 - 50 meters and distances were paced off as accurately as possible revealing finally a total of 9 1/2 km. At both the east and west ends the earthworks disappeared into large swamps through which they may or may not have continued...
With the realization that this new feature was not natural, but something constructed with great effort by the Maya themselves, we were left with the question of why? What was the function of this great trench and embankment situated so far from the center of Tikal? At first we considered the possibility that it might have served as a canal in a water distribution system of some kind. However, this intriguing idea had to be rejected on the basis of two factors, both of which precluded the extremely porous nature of the limestone bedrock, and second, the way in which the trench goes up and down the sides of large hills without changing its depth.
On the other hand, its POTENTIAL AS A BARRIER TO HUMAN MOVEMENT was obvious... Though we did not know its depth before we began excavation, the FOUR METER WIDTH of the trench posed an obstacle few Maya could have crossed by jumping To have tried to do so would have been additionally difficult for two re3asons. 1st- for almost it's entire length outsiders would have had to run uphill to approach the trench, and second, they would have had to jump upwards, as well as across the trench to get onto the embankment which abutted the south lip... It should be remembered that this embankment must have been considerably steeper and higher a thousand years ago than it is today... THAT THE TRENCH WAS IMPASSABLE is suggested by the fact that at four or five widely separated points along it's length we found what appeared to be causeways across it. At each of these there was an equivalent gap in the embankment. If the earthworks were not a barrier to human passage these "GATES" would have little reason to exist...
Several days' work in the trench revealed that it had been cut into limestone bedrock to a depth of three meters and that in its original state the walls of the trench had been nearly vertical. clearly, anyone who might have fallen into it would have had some difficulty getting out...
THE LIMITED EXPLORATION OF MOST LOWLAND MAYA SITES MAKES IT IMPOSSILBE TO SAY THAT DEFENSIVE EARTHWORKS OF THIS NATURE ARE UNIQUE TO TIKAL OR EVEN RARE. The trench we have described above is crossed at one of its more impressive points by the well-traveled trail between Uzxactun and Tikal. Many well known archaeologists have crossed it without recognizing it for what it was, probably because with some discomfort as their mules slid down or scrambled up the steep south edge, who is to say that similar earthworks do not exist elsewhere? (Puleston and Callender 16967:40-48)
That is the end of the article, however, when I look on my MesoAmerican map, I see that Tikal is in the small country of Belize which is next to the EAST SEA. I guess that would be in the east wilderness. Other defensive earthworks sites have since been located at Becan, coba, and El Mirador. Yes and you guess it, they are all by the east coast or as the Book of Mormon puts it, the East Sea.
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You asked in your original thread - was there any other "records anywhere or artifacts outside of what's given by the church to support" the claim for the Book of Mormon. I thought the answer was Yes. But you say no.
Ok, so from what I'm hearing you say, Fernado Ix interviewed 2000+ natives and was told-
- about their believe of the creation of the world, of man and women...
- of the great flood that came and destroyed man save a few who were saved.
- the building of a tall tower which resulted in the confounding of the languages.
- that the people came across many lands and many waters.
- that the sun stood still for one day. (by the way, the Mayan year is shorter that ours)
- the first settlers were giants
- there was a great destruction at the time of Christ in the land, and that there were signs given before that date.
- he talked about an abridgement
- that the 2nd settlers (the royal linage) were going through war
- that they had the custom of naming the land after the one who found it
- speaks of a righteous and civilized people while others descendant of 1st king were Blood thirsty.
Of course he said a lot more and in more detail, but from what I'm hearing you say, Ixtlilxóchitl's work can't be trusted because 1- he was poor. 2- He was commissioned by the Spanish to write a history of the people. 3- and their were discrepancies in some of his work. The reason there were discrepancies in his work was he recorded all who he interviewed. Different tribes had different dates but the stories all matched, or were very close. And as a result, all of his work that was written 200 years before the Book of Mormon was written should be thrown out. Even though his work mirrors the Book of Mormon all through out. I would think that if you wanted to be really honest, one or two points might be suspect, but all 32 points, that would be a pretty dead on match.
Let's see, your original post again-
Seems to me like such an event would spark some enthusiasm, as far as general human tendencies go, some record of this would have to have existed outside of the Book of Mormon.
What evidence or record of this event or other Book of Mormon events can we find outside of the Book of Mormon itself? Are there any other records anywhere or artifacts outside of what's given by the church to support the view that Christianity was ever part of American culture prior to European exploration/colonization?
All this is very special, however, that doesn't dissolve the fact that because the Codex were burned he went out and copied legion in the 1600's and then his work was packed away in a museum in Spain until after the Book of Mormon was written. When he wrote his work he didn't need to prove the Book of Mormon. When Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon he didn't have Fernado's work.
You asked for outside proof. Yes, some dates might be off, however, the body of the work is there. Not bad for oral tradition of one thousand four hundred years.
It's a funny thing about acceptance of proof. I seem to have recalled the story of one Jesus Christ who was taken before a dude named Caiapahas the High Priest. Now even though Christ raised the dead, healed the sick, made the blind see, fed the multitude, even after he had done all that, Caiapahas still didn't believe and had Jesus Christ crucified. In fact, the Jews had a huge problem of killing the prophets even though they had amazing proof.
Now if you don't want to accept Ol Fernando de Alva Ixtlilxochitl, no problem, but will you accept Mormoni's earth works.
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In order for us to repent of major sins, we need to go and confess to the Bishop, and go through the steps. Before the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everytime someone sinned he would have to go to the Temple in Jerusalem and offer a lamb to remove that sin. For many that trip would be a 5 day journey one way. It got to the point during the time of Christ and before during apostate times that people would only make that trip once a year.
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I was hit be some Anti in the past. They said that there was nothing as far as legened or proof about the Book of Mormon. If my teenager ever gets back from camp I can have him down load some pictures as well as a great body of evidence that has come forth concerning the Book of Mormon.
Fernando De Alva Ixtlilxochitl
(Eesht-leal-sho-cheat-el)
I have included Ixtlilxochitl in this Blog as he is a very powerful witness of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. He was born in 1578 A.D and died around 1650 A.D. He was born of royal descent. His father was the last king of Texcoco, and the next to the last Emperor of Mexico, Cuitlahuac. His mother was of Spanish descent.
When the Spaniards came over in the 16th century, they imposed Christianity upon the native people. This was done at gun point. The natives went through the motions of conversions, however, they would always go back to their writings, the Codexs, to practice the old religion. When the Spaniards discovered what they were doing, they took all of their Codexs, and burned them all, forcing them to move forward with Christianity. Saddened by the loss of his peoples history, Ixtlilxochitl, went amongst his people and copied down all of their legends. His work became so famous that it was taken from him and taken back to Spain where it was put into the library in Madrid Spain. It stayed there until it was put into a book called the Antiquities of Mexico, in 1848. (18 years after the Book of Mormon was published) It was copied from Spanish to English in the year 1902. It is threw Ixtililxochitl’s writing that that we can compare the history of the first settlers on this continent. Now there is a corruption of names, however, the stories still hold true. Remember, his writings were written in the 1600’s (230 years before the Book of Mormon was translated) however, nobody could read it until 1848 in Spanish, or 1902 in English, both of which came forth after the Book of Mormon was published.
The writings of Ixtlilxochitl tell about their belief about-
- the belief in the first parents and the creation of the world
- about how the earth was destroyed by a flood and a great how a ark saved them
- it talks about how a great tower was built and how the language was confounded
- it talks about how these people crossed many waters to come to this land
- it tells the story of how the sun stood still for one day
- it tells how the first settlers were giants
- it tells of great earthquakes and destruction on the land around the death of
Jesus Christ. Many cities were destroyed.
- it tells how after many years of peace, men stood up to overthrow the legitimate
Successor of the land.
- it tells of how there were righteous men and men of blood and wickedness.
This is just a short list of the writings of Ixtlilxochitl. The next several pages deal with the writings of Ixtlilxochitl and the corresponding writing found in the Book of Mormon. This work came out of a Book Exploring the Lands of the Book of Mormon, written by Joseph L. Allen Ph.D. which come with complete footnotes.
I have had many people who had prayed about the church and received an answer, but then when the anti’s came in, they lost their testimony. Istlilxochitl’s writing have proven to counter the anti Mormons lies. It is a truly impressive work.
Fernando de Ixtlilxochitl and the Book of Mormon
1- A history of the events in New Spain including many things regarding the knowledge and accomplish
-ments of the Tultecas from the creation of the World to its destruction, , and up to the arrival of the
Third inhabitants called Chichimecas…
Book of Mormon- 1st inhabitance Jaridites, (Either 6) 2nd inhabitance Mule kites (Omni 1:15)
3rd inhabitance the Children of Lehi, the Nephites and Lamanites (1 Nephi 18:23)
2- The creation of the world and things pertaining thereto, including the origin of man. The
Omniscience of God and what He has revealed to the Toltecas.
Book of Mormon- And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth, and they have brought forth children… 2 Nephi 19-20
3- The Tultecas had a knowledge of the creation of the world by Tloque Nahuaque, including the
plants, mountains, animals, etc. They also knew about how God created a man and a woman
from whence all mankind descended and multiplied.
Book of Mormon- And he beheld that they did contain the five books of Moses, which gave
an account of the creation of the world, and also of Adam and Eve, who were our first
parents. 1 Nephi 5:11
4- The records indicate that a flood came 1,716 years after the creation of the world. At this time
of great lightning and storms from the heavens, man was destroyed, and everything on earth
was covered by water including the hightest mountain.
5- To this they recorded other events, such as how after the flood, a few people who had escaped the
destruction inside a Toptlipetlacalli, which interpreted means an enclosed ark.
Book of Mormon- … yet it would not be by flood as were the people in the days of Noah…
Alma 10:22
For he truly told them of all things, from the beginning of man, and that after the water had
receded from off the face of this land it became choice lands… Ether 13:2
6- After the earth began again to be populated, they built a Zacualli very high and strong, which
means the very high tower, to protect themselves against the 2nd destruction of the world.
Book of Mormon- I give not the full account, …from the tower down until they were destroyed.
Ether 1:5
7- As time elapsed, their language became confounded, such that they did not understand one
another, and they were scattered to all parts of the world.
Book of Mormon- And his first parents came out from the tower, at the time the Lord confounded
the language of the people. Omni 1:22
8- The Tultecas, consisting of seven men and their wives, were able to understand one another, and
they came to this land, having first crossed many lands and waters, living in caves and passing
through great tribulations.
Book of Mormon- And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did cry unto the Lord, and the
Lord had compassion upon Jared, therefore he did not confound the language of Jared. Ether 1:35
And they did land upon the shore of the promised land. And when they had set their feet upon the
shores of the promised land, and when they bowed themselves down upon the face of the land, and
did humble themselves before the Lord, and did shed tears of joy before the Lord. Ether 6:12
13- In the year 8 tochtli, which was 4,779 years since the creation of the world, it is recorded in their
history that the sun stood still one natural day without moving.
Book of Mormon- And it came to pass that the words which came unto Nephi were fulfilled,
according as they had been spoken, for behold at the going down of the sun there was no darkness
and the people began to be astonished because there was no darkness when the night came.
Samuel the Lamanite 3 Nephi 1:15
14- It had been 158 years since the great hurricane when there occurred another destruction in this
Land. The people who lived in this corner of the land were giants.
Book of Mormon- And they were lost in the wilderness for the space of many days… and they
discovered a land which was covered with bones of men… and of ruins of buildings of every kind
having discovered a land which had been peopled with a people who were as numerous as the
hosts of Israel…which were large… Mosiah 8:8-10
16- It had been 270 years since the giants had been destroyed when the sun and the moon eclipsed and
the earth quaked and rocks were broken into pieces and many other signs that had been given came
pass, which happened at the same time that Christ, our Lord, was crucified. And they say that this
destruction occurred in the first few days of the year.
Book of Mormon- In the 34th year, in the first month, on the forth day, there arose a great storm
Such an one as never had been known in all the land. And there was a great and terrible tempest,
and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to
divide asunder. And there were exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in
all the land. And the city of Zarahemia did take fire. And the city of Moroni did sink into the
depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof were drowned, And the earth was carried up on the
city of Moronihah, that in the place of the city there became a great mountain. And there was a
great and terrible destruction in the land southward. But behold, there was a more great and
terrible destruction in the land northward, for behold, the whole face of the land was changed,
because of the tempest and the whirlwind, and the thundering and the lightnings, and the exceeding
great quaking of the whole earth. 3 Nephi 8:5-12
It speaks of many other signs that were given. Samuel the Lamanite gave many signs unto the people
concerning the birth and death of Jesus Christ.
17- These and many other things from the creation of the world up to our time were understood by the
Tultecas for they made an abridgement, primarily of their origins, I mean all of the things that are
found in their paintings and histories are just an abridgement compared to the records that the first
archbishop of Mexico ordered to be burned.
Book of Mormon- …for after I had made an abridgement from the plates of Nephi, down to the
reign of this king Benjamin… Words of Mormon 1:3
18- It had been 305 years since the time of the eclipsing of the sun and the moon, when the Tulteca
royal lineage, following many years of the kingdom, desiring to overthrow the legitimate successor.
Book of Mormon- And it came to pass that after three hundred and five years had passed away
Ammaron being constrained by the Holy Ghost, did hide up the records which were sacred…
4 Nephi 1:48, …there arose a people who were called the Nephites, and they were the true believers
of Christ… and they who rejected the gospel were called Lamanites…followed by great wars.
This was after hundreds of years of peace.
… believing in the tradition of their fathers of their fathers, which is this, believing that they were
driven out of the land of Jerusalem because of the iniquites of their fathers, and that they were
wronged in the wilderness by their brethren, and they were also wronged while crossing the sea.
Mosiah 10:12
19- They were exiled, and there began to be wars, and they cast them out of the City of Tlachicalzincan,
and they were cast out with their families and allies, their men as well as their women, and a great
exciled.
In Mormon 6 it talks about the Nephites being exiled from the land and their city together with their
wives and children. They all met for the last and final battle at Cumorah. It was here that Nephites
became instinct. Mormon 6
21) And all who are now called Tultecas, Aculhuas, and Mexicanas, as we as the other people in this land
boast and affirm that they are descendants of the Chichimecas. The reason, according to their history,
is that their first King, whose name was Chichimecatl, was the one who brought them to this new land
where they settled.
Book of Mormon- All the Book of Mormon people came from Lehi. Even though we had Nephites
And Lamanites, and Amalikites, and Amlicites as well as other, the all stemmed from Lehi.
22) In each place where the Chichimecatl settled, whether it be a large city or a small village, it was their
custom to name it according to the first king or leader who possessed the land. This same custom
prevailed amoung the Tultecas.
Book of Mormon- Now it was the custom of the people of Nephi to call their lands, and their cities,
and their villages, yea, even all their small villages after the name of him who first possessed them, and
thus it was with the land of Ammonihah. Alma 8:7
23) Notwithstanding that some were called Tultecas, others Aculhuas, Tepanecas and Otomites, they all
were proud to be of the lineage of the Chichimecas, because they all descended from them. However, it
is true that there were divisions amoung the chichimecas themselves. And some were more civilized
then others, such as the Tultecas. And others were more barbaric, such as the Otomites, Those who are
pure Chichimecas, whose kings were direct descendants of the first king, were bloodthirsty men, warriors, and lovers of power, holding other nations in bondage.
Book of Mormon- they were a wild and ferocious, and a blood-thirsty people, believing in the
tradition of their fathers of their fathers, which is this, believing that they were driven out of the land of
Jerusalem because of the iniquites of their fathers, and that they were wronged in the wilderness by their brethren, and they were also wronged while crossing the sea. Mosiah 10:12
24) Although one nation was inclined to righteousness and another nation was full of mischief and idleness
being exceedingly haughty and proud and being warmongers, or although one nation was virtuous and
other full of iniquity, both as recorded in their history came from the same lineage, the Chichimecas.
Book of Mormon- Two separate peoples came from Lehi, the Nephites who were righteous and
virtuous, and the Lamanites who were idle (2 Nephi 5:24), and full of mischief, wormongers, and
bloodthirsty.
25) In this land called New Spain, there were giants as demonstrated by their bones that have been
discovered in many areas. The ancient Tulteca record keepers called them Quinametzin. They
became acquainted with them and had many wars and contentions with them, and in particular in all
the land that is now called Mexico. They were destroyed and their civilization came to an end as a
result of great calamities and punishments from heaven for some grave sins that they had committed.
Book of Mormon- The Nephites were the record keepers who bore witness that the Jaridites nation
came to an end because they choose wickedness over righteousness.
Primera edicion: Kingsborough. Antiquities of Mexico. vol IX London 1848
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Better get rid of my cows
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We have had our cable turned off because we felt that it was running our life, and as a result, I have spent a lot more time reading the scriptures. Almost to the point that I have gotten addicted to not only reading the scriptures, but also to the spirit that I feel when I read the scriptures.
What has worked best for me, and again, this is only me, is to tackle a book like Romans or Ephesians or Hosea and study as much about the writer and the people as I can. Try to figure out WHY the Lord wanted that in HIS scriptures. And then through out the whole week, I read it over and over again, (if it is short) and high light the important truths that are made known unto me from the Spirit and through prayer.
I also eat out a lot and enjoy reading my scriptures in restaurant while waiting for my food. That has prompted a lot of people to open up a discussion with me, and I am always happy to talk to them. Another plus about my love for the scriptures is when I am reading them at home at the kitchen table. Not for show, but when my kids and their friends see how important the scriptures are for me, hopefully I am sending a message to them that it should be important to them. Remember, Love for the scriptures are not taught, they are caught.
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It is an amazing culture that we have become. Many feel that if we loose our homes, our jobs, our cars, our boats,... then we won't have any hope. What did the human race do for the last 6000 year that didn't have any of these things. Here's the deal, we are not promised for life to be all down hill, at the perfect temperature of 70 degrees, with $5,017 in our bank account, and never having to eat our mother in law's cooking until the Savior comes again. Life is going to get a little choppy, and yet we still will have hope.
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The following is from a thread in sharing called "My King." It congers up the idea of having to sacrifice a lamb to rid ourselves of our sins.
Things began to play out step by step, just as I remember reading them in the scriptures. Jesus made his historic entrance into Jerusalem on a donkey. Once in Jerusalem, we went to the temple. There were several merchants selling all kinds of live stock. Many were selling sheep, but other animals were also being sold. The funny thing was, because it was the Passover time, and everyone was traveling to Jerusalem, many would take that opportunity to attend the temple and do sin offerings which would require a lamb. Because of that fact, many of the merchants jacked up the prices on the live stock. They called it supply and demand. This practice enraged the master as the merchants were taking advantage of the people who needed the sacrifices to get right with God. In what might be called a fit of righteous indignation, the master flew into the temple court yard and began overturning the merchant’s table. He bellowed out with authority, “It is written, My house is a house of Prayer, but you have made it into a den of thieves.” The merchants quickly scattered, which got the attention of the Scribes and Pharisees. This prompted an argument of sorts between the Savior and the Sanhedrin, neither side wanting to back down.
While this lively debate ensued, I quietly slipped away. For the life of me, I didn’t understand why they would be selling lambs in the temple in the first place, so I decided to investigate a little. I noticed at the end of the hall, a rather portly looking man carrying a very young and fragile lamb. I quickly caught up with the man as he entered the sacrificial area. Being from the 20th century, I had no concept on what to expect. The only thing I really knew for sure was that the lamb was just adorable.
When I was young, I raised sheep for a Sheep Raising Merit Badge in Boy Scouts. Every year we would have our ewes breed, and in the spring we would get little lambs prancing and dancing around our pasture. I truly have a soft spot for lambs, and this one was no exception.
The portly man walked up to one of the priests on duty and said in a cold and almost mechanical tone, “I have brought this lamb as a sin offering unto the Lord that I might become cleansed from my iniquities.”
The priest, also in a cold, business as usual kind of tone said, “Very well, follow me.”
The priest led the man over to a table of sorts. The large man, without any respect or sign of remorse, threw the lamb upon the table, and then put both hands on its fragile body. As I witnessed this, I began to feel a bit queasy in the pit of my stomach. The lamb was crying frantically as it thrashed around to get free. Oblivious to the lamb’s cries for freedom, the man bowed his head and mumbled in a cold and heartless fashion, “Oh God, I bring this lamb unto your holy temple in that I might become clean and pure before you.” He continued by making a list of transgression that he had committed over the last year. The priest handed him a knife, and to my horror and dismay, the man slit the lamb’s throat. The once crying and squirming lamb now lay lifeless on the altar. Anger began to boil up in me as this pure and helpless lamb was basically murdered for this fat slob’s sins.
The priest drained the blood from the lamb and sprinkled its blood, drop and drop onto the altar of the Most High God. Once the blood was consumed, the body of the lamb was thrown into the fire. The priest washed and dried his hands and gave the man a pat on the back. “You are now clean and pure before the Lord,” the priest stated like he had just done some major penance.
“Great,” exclaimed the man, again without showing an emotion. “I guess I’ll see you next year. By, by now.” And with that, the pig exited the sacrificial area. I wish that I was truly whole at this time. I promise you, I would have taken the man out back behind the temple and would have kicked the living….. well let me just say, it wouldn’t have been pretty.
Here this man committed the sins, and instead of him stepping up and paying for them himself, he goes and buys an innocent, docile, lamb, and it pays the price for the man’s sins.
I was just livid at the thought of the injustice of the whole thing. One of the most traumatic memories of my youth was when I had to dock off the tails of my young lambs. I didn’t realize it but lambs are born with long tails. This creates cleanliness issues, and so when they are young they need to have their tails docked off. This would require me putting a very small rubber band around their tails. The process would be excruciatingly painful for the lamb for a good ten or fifteen minutes, after that, the tail would go numb, and would fall off in about two weeks. Watching the young lambs suffer was one of the hardest things I have had to endure in my life. I’m sure if I had to kill a poor, innocent, defenseless lamb every time I sinned, I would look at sin a lot differently. And what got me was that this man didn’t really care. It was as if the whole process was cold and habitual instead of powerfully symbolic.
Still sick to my stomach from what I had just seen, I decided to go and sit down and wait for the Savior to finish debating with the Sanhedrin. He was really letting them have I, calling them white sepulchers and all. As I sat there, I was still fuming about the poor lamb. Under my breath, I muttered, “Man, if I had to kill a lamb every time I sinned, I would stop sinning.” Again, I could feel my blood boil as this worthless man showed no appreciation or remorse for the life of this animal.
But then, like a ton of bricks, the condemning of this man turned inward. Knots began tightening in my stomach as I pondered the fact that within 24 hours, my Jesus would become the infinite and eternal Lamb of God. He would freely give his life to atone for the sins of the world. He will be taken and nailed upon a cross, and like the lamb whose blood was sprinkled into the fire, so would I be redeemed by the precious blood of Christ. (1 Peter 1:19)
But what made me ache so much was the fact that I was just as cold and indifferent about the sacrifice of Jesus as this man had been towards the lamb he slaughtered.
I made a silent promise in my heart that I would never knowingly commit a sin in the future that my friend would have to atone for. I truly believe that that is why God gave the law of sacrifice in the first place, so that perhaps, we the people, would in some way, have a better understanding of the true cost of sin.
If you had to sacrifice a lamb every time you sinned, would you slip more or less than you do now?
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I would say that the God of the Old Testament is indeed the same God as the New. We have a very caring and loving God. One of my favorite books of the Old Testament is the Book of Hosea. That is where Hosea was commanded to marry a girl that the Lord new would cheat on him with other guys. In fact, she had like 3 different children from 3 different fathers. When I asked my newly married son how he would feel if his beloved wife cheated with another man, he said that it would utterly destroy him inside. And that is what the Lord Almighty was trying to tell us through the symbolism of the Old Testament. For hundreds of years the Lord blessed his people. He fed them with manna, for 40 years. He poured out blessing for those who chose righteousness, and curses on those who like a unfaithful wife went chasing after other gods. I would say that 40% of the Old Testament is story or history, while the other 60% is the Lord calling his way ward bride back to repentance. Sadly, they didn't listen, but as a result, the rest of the world got to learn about God. Question is, what do you see, a loving father in Heaven or a vengeful warmonger God wanting to crush us the minute we step over the line.
With the God of the Old Testament walking amongst us, he spent a majority of his time teaching love and mercy that is the core of the gospel. Somewhere alone the line, the scribes and Pharisees hijacked the true gospel of mercy and love and loving the Lord with all of our heart and put in it's place a stringent set of rules and policies that they believed would bring the people closer to being holy. Such rules were that they could only take so many steps on the Sabbath or you had to wash your hands before means or you would defile yourself.
So the first 4 books of the New testament are the Gospels, eye witness accounts of the Savior's life. Then we have acts- or the Acts of the Apostles that transpired after the death of Jesus. Then the next 16 letters were written by Paul, starting from the longest being Romans to the shortest being Philemon. Hebrews is also though of to be written by Paul as it has his fingerprints written all over it, however, we don't know for sure. And the reason for many of these letters was to encourage the various churches to endure until the end, and the other half was to put out the fires that the Judaizers were sturring up around the region. Again, the major part of Paul's work was to love the Lord with all of our heart through faith instead of the empty observance of a bunch of rules that had evolved over the last 500 years. And then Peter and John spoke encouraging words on love and commitment, and again, enduring to the end. Again, there is the fingerprints of a Loving Heavenly Father, but again, which do you see.
Bullet proof Fasting
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted · Edited by hethathathears
After returning home from my mission, I quickly got a job to start saving money again. The job that I got was working the grave yard shift at a convenience store. After I had worked there a year a met a very special girl who I was considering marrying. We connected on so many levels. And she had such a powerful testimony. But I thought that I would take it before the Lord in fasting and prayer to get his mind on the matter.
So I decided to fast on a Saturday night that would go into Fast Sunday and then break my fast after our 11:00 o'clock block. So even though I was fasting I went to work at 11:00 P.M. The night went just like that other nights. I had busy periods and slow ones. When I was slow, I tried to prayer for wisdom and how the Lord felt about my choice. As the night wore on, and after I had finished most of my work, I had a visit from an unexpected guest. He pulled out the biggest gun I had ever seen in my life and shoved it in my face and demanded that I give him all of the money. He said a few verbs and additives that I'm really not allowed to post, and then grabbed some cigarette cartons, took the money and then ran out. In the last 6 months before that, there had been 3 clerks that had been shot and killed in our area. So when he left, I was eternally grateful, especially since he didn't make me holy all over my freshly mopped floor. I quickly went to the back room and called the police.
Time moved very slowly over the next 8 minutes. That was the time that it took for the police to get there. Now although I didn't know it, the gentleman who robbed me was out to the side of my store trying to get his motor cycle started. I guess it wouldn't start. And so after 8 minutes the police came jumped out of their cars and pulled their guns and told him to freeze. At that time, his motor cycle started. He gave it the gas. The motor cycle flipped over popping a wheelie and fell to the ground. My friend was quickly arrested and hauled away to jail.
The council that I always give to those who I tell this story to is to never rob a man who is fasting. But the better news is that despite this minor disturbance, the Lord answered my prayer and we have been married for 23 years.
I had one other experience while fasting. Again I was on my way home from work, but on a different morning. Church was to start in 4 hours and I was looking forward to getting a few hours of sleep before church. I was on my way home with my Kawasaki 400 Motor cycle and when I came to a red light I stopped and waited patiently for the light to turn green. It was a intersection with 4 lanes, and I was on the inside lane with a truck that was to my right.
When the light turned green, I could not move. There was a pause. The truck to my right pulled out and at that time, a Camaro went flying through his red light and smashed into the left side of the truck going 60 miles per hour. The one in the truck was hurt very badly as was the driver of the Camaro. But the Lord spared me a visit to the Celestial Kingdom at that time. I would have been caught between the two with no protection what so ever.
I have a real testimony of Fasting. Not just for the protection that I have relieved, but also for the closeness that it has brought me to the Lord over the years, and the answer that I have received. This is my story, but have any of you receive a testimony of fasting" Please share.