Fortigurn

Christadelphian.

Vanhin, your point is well made and well taken. On the matter of what constitutes 'official Church doctrine', and how it is determined, I see here a range of conflicting views. This did not surprise me, since I was already aware of the difference of beliefs on this matter within the LDS Church. So we have: * 'The official doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is contained in the following works: the Holy Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, Official Declarations and proclamations, and Articles of Faith' * 'Official doctrine is made through unanimous agreement of one or all of the presiding quorums. (D&C 107 21-29). Proclamations or announcements not made through that process do not have the same force' * 'I have seen and heard many of our (LDS) leaders repeat this statement. To me that qualifies it as doctrine. I'm sure I'm wrong in so many ways, but if multiple prophets have repeated it, it must be right' * 'Doctrines of the Church are found in only 3 sources, per official church statemnent on lds.org: 1-- The four standard works of scripture 2-- The official proclamations and declarations of the First Presidency of the Church 3-- The 13 Articles of Faith ' * 'the Church teaches many principles which are accepted as doctrines but which the First Presidency has seen no need to declare in an official pronouncement' I believe HiJolly said it well: I found the Ensign article extremely pertinent: HiJolly, I'm glad I could show you that 'official declarations and proclamations', which are not restricted to 'official declarations and proclamations of the First Presidency' can also be sources of official Church doctrine. It would be nice to take credit for that find, but I'm afraid it wasn't mine. It was pointed out to me by an active LDS member I have known and interacted with for the last year or so (not puiwaihin). By the way puiwaihin, it's worth noting that D&C 107 21-29 does not say that official doctrine is only made through unanimous agreement of one or all of the presiding quorum. What it says, very plainly, is this: What it is saying is that decisions made by any one quorum must be approved by the unanimous approval of all members in every quorum. It doesn't actually say anything about doctrine (let alone how doctrine is formed), and it certainly doesn't say that 'Proclamations or announcements not made through that process do not have the same force'.

This has been a very enlightening thread, thank you to all participants. So what we see is a general agreement on the following. To the question of which doctrine is taught in these quotes: * 'The doctrine that God once lived as we do now' * 'Eternal Progression' * 'As man is G-d once was' * 'The doctrine for us, is that we can progress to become like our Heavenly Father, just like Heavenly Father progressed to where he is at' * 'The Doctrine is just what has already been quoted' * 'It refers to several clear and plain doctrines in the restored gospel: eternal progression, exaltation, God as our Father, etc' To the question of whether or not this is a revelation: * 'The church does believe this is revelation, yes' * 'Yes' * 'Yes, and there are plenty of scriptures to support it as shown below' * 'Reveled to Prophets, yes!' * 'I believe President Snow was inspired of God when this truth was revealed to him: "As man is God once was; as God now is man may be!"' To the question of whether or not it is taught by the LDS Church: * 'Yes, we are taught that God was once a man, like us. Its all in the Doctrine and covenants I believe' * 'Yes' * 'Yes, it is taught' * 'I have seen and heard many of our (LDS) leaders repeat this statement. To me that qualifies it as doctrine. I'm sure I'm wrong in so many ways, but if multiple prophets have repeated it, it must be right' * 'It is clear that the teaching of President Lorenzo Snow is both acceptable and accepted doctrine in the Church today' * 'The second part does get more attention “As God now is, Man may become” So this part is “taught” more' * 'Either the whole saying by Lorenzo Snow is Doctrine or the whole thing isn’t!' * 'While the quote is accepted of the Brethren, not all of its possible interpretations are' This is the message I have received consistently when questioning active LDS members concerning this doctrine.

Traveler, I do not in fact believe that this speaks of the progression of Christ. I understood you to be saying it refers to the progression of Christ. HiJolly, the 'official church statement' you cite (which ironically does not appear in the Standard Works nor the official proclamations and declarations of the First Presidency of the Church nor the Articles of Faith), actually also includes 'official declarations and proclamations', which are not restricted to 'official declarations and proclamations of the First Presidency'.

Vanhim, thanks for your useful post. You said 'Our scriptures teach, that God is both infinite and eternal, and that he is an exalted Man who's spirit is clothed with an immortal glorified body of flesh and bone (D&C 130:22)'. I have been told that when an LDS member refers to 'Scripture', that 'Scripture' does not actually refer ot what has been canonized. I was under the impression that D&C was a canonical work, however.

tubaloth, you say that this doctrine is 'our potential to be like God is'. Other posters didn't say that, they said it was that God was once like us: * 'The doctrine that God once lived as we do now' * 'As man is G-d once was' * 'This is the way our Heavenly Father became God' However, you then say 'as we believe the doctrine we assume the same type of thing happen with our Heavenly Father', which makes it clear you believe that the doctrine does assume the same type of thing happened with Heavenly Father. This agrees with what all the others have said. You say 'It is taught in the Bible and in the Doctrine in Covenants', so that means it's canonical. You also say 'this is a deeper doctrine of our teaching', so it is taught as doctrine by your church. So far I've been told by at least four people here that the doctrine in question is that God (Heavenly Father), was once like us and became God, that this is a revelation, that this is doctrine, and that this is taught by the LDS Church. I appreciate the clarification.

PapilioMemnon, you seem to interpret this doctrine as referring to the progression of man, not the progression of God. Would that be correct, or do you understand it to refer to the progression of Heavenly Father? Traveler, you seem to interpret this doctrine as referring to the progression of Jesus Christ, and not Heavenly Father. Would that be correct, or do you understand it to refer to the progression of Heavenly Father? Is there disagreement on the understanding of this doctrine among LDS members? Thanks for all the responses so far.

I have been presented with the following quotes. I have a few questions: * What doctrine is being referred to here? * Is this a revelation? * Is this taught by the LDS Church? Please note that I am not here to debate the doctrine.