ocean

Hi all, I really don't have time to spend on the computer right now, but just came across a discussion that is happening on the christian discussion forum that really needs some good mormon representatives. Please help! It's titled 'Mormon men, I'm calling you out....." discussing polygamy.......Please help out!!! thttp://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?p=3416273#poststop

Dale, I really do get what you are saying. It's a horrible thing to make a person guilty if it hasn't been proven. However, right now I am asking myself this question: If this were a worst cast scenario - for the sake of argument lets just say that Joseph suffered sexual temptation and had affairs - would that nullify his prophetic calling? I believe I can actually say that even if it were the worst case scenario, I would still believe he was the prophet of the restoration. If I can say and believe that, then there is nothing that will stop this work.

I am so happy to come back and find all of these responses. Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to talk about this. The biggest message I am getting here is the importance of prayer - and reading the scriptures. That of course doesn't mean that I don't need to bother looking for the facts. I will continue to pursue the truth no matter what it is. I fully believe that trying to prove things that can't be proven and arguing will never get anyone anywhere. I also believe that defending the faith is important. My feeling is that the more any of us know, warts and all, the better off we will be - the church will be better for it. We don't need to be major intellectuals, but this day and age many of us who haven't yet had the experience will be faced with questions that are hard to answer, and I feel so strongly that members need to know how to respond. I believe that it's bad for the church when members are approached with a hard question relating to church history and are completely ignorant about it. Of course we can't all be expected to be history buffs, but when someone for example brings up the fact that Joseph had 30+ wives etc and the response from a mormon is that it's lies or just anti-mormon, well, quite frankly it reflects badly on the church. There are too many people who see us as ignorant and brainwashed because of episodes like this. I mean, that ignorant person was me, and is me - Here I am in my 30's, have studied a lot - and yet I am just now finding this out about Joseph Smith. Can I just say again that I'm upset? This is something all members should know! Obviously there are going to be people who are just antagonists, whose minds we wouldn't be able to persuade no matter what. But I also think that if mormons were better at knowing their own history - the good and the bad - we would be so much better at bringing people into the church. The real shame is when a person has to find out something true about the church through an anti-mormon website. We as members need to figure out how to combat this better. We are always instructed to not go looking around where there is anti-mormon material. What I find so unforntuate is that that's what I have had to do in order to get certain answers. What is wrong with this picture? You know what would be really great is if the church just put up a website - an official website - that dealt with difficult aspects of church history as well as common criticisms - using not only official church statements but also responses from members, such as responses given in this thread - some of which are very inspiring. We shouldn't be so 'afraid' of all the anti stuff. More importantly, we shouldn't be afraid of our own history. I think that fear and ignorance does more harm than good. If we faced it all head on, and publicly, it would be like a fortress. I know that all of satan's efforts will ultimately work against him. I have had that experience personally - It was through reading anti-mormon literature for the first time that I gained a desire to go to the temple and received my endowment. Has anyone ever wondered how the war in heaven was fought? Obviously it wasnt a physical war. We are having a similar type of war right now. I have one comment for Palerider: I started this thread basically for help with an issue I'm struggling with. There are people that lose their testimonies over things like this - people who may be reading this thread. You say that you've been fighting this fight for years and that you don't need to be better at defending Joseph Smith - and yet so far all you have been able to say is that all it comes down to is that he was a prophet and translated the B of M by the power of God. For a lot of people that simply is not enough. Most people need to hear more than that in order to be touched by the spirit. Why did you even bother commenting on this thread. Do you have something to offer?

Palerider, I get what you're saying but have to disagree with the part about how he doesn't need defending. He does - the church does - and we as members need to be better at it. There are so many bashers out there, and if we don't defend what we hold to be sacred and true then we are not doing all we should be to build up the kingdom and to help those who are being deceived. Anas13, thank you for your humility - it is truly beautiful and I hope I didn't say anything to offend you. Papilio, thank you for your helpful comments

I would really like to hear what you would say if someone asked you about it. I feel that sometimes it gets a little old when we refer people to read this or that without being able to defend things in our own words. We need to be better defenders. In honor of Joseph, who died on this day, I would like to hear some people defend him in their own words.

Thanks for that - it's number one on my reading list right now

I have known about many accusations against Joseph Smith - nothing has persuaded me to believe he was not a prophet. To me, there is a big difference between 5 or 6 wives, and over 30. I always viewed the purpose of plural marriage as being to establish the church by having more children, so the wives could support eachother when their husbands were on missions, basically, it was necessary to get the church firmly established - at least thats how I've always seen it. But when the number starts getting into the 30's I can't help but wonder if he was just really tempted by sex. We know he drank and was by no means perfect. We also know that God does not need a perfect man to work his miracles. And lets talk about the facts - was he or wasn't he married to women who were already married and as young as fourteen? I'm not saying that was the case with all his wives, but what about Fanny Alger? In those days it definitely wasn't typical for a man to have more than one wife. In fact, the majority of the church did not practice plural marriage. I am worried about people like Anas13 who don't know the facts and then try to defend the church. I know this isn't the most pleasant subject for people. But is it better for members to not know the truth when they are put up against people who do and seek to discredit the church? I am waiting to hear some good defending of the prophet - because we as members need to be better at it.

Ok, so I have a testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet. I thought he had five or six wives, which I felt I could accept. But when I just recently learned that he actually had more than thirty wives, some of them already married to other men and some as young as 14, well......it has raised some doubt and questioning. First of all, I feel upset that I didn't know this before. I'm upset that I had to learn about this from a mormon basher. I feel like I have been kept in the dark, and I can understand now why some people end up leaving the church. I am now beginning to wonder what else I don't know! Everyone talks about milk before meat but.....now that we're in the age of the internet there is meat everywhere in full force. I just really wish there was a way for people to learn the truth uncensored, without having to wade through a bunch of anti sentiment. I was born and raised in the church, have been to the temple, read all the scriptures, etc.....But this part of Joseph's life really bothers me. I can accept that plural marriage was commanded of God. But Joseph's situation seems so extreme. I am just having trouble with this. I feel very strongly about the church and feel a need to be able to defend it and to defend Joseph Smith. I can't help but wonder if he could have abused God's command to have plural wives. Could this be possible? I mean, obviously he was just a human and has made mistakes.....please don't take this as any kind of slander. I am really just trying to get my bearings here and hope that people in this forum can share with me their own defense of Joseph (in addition to any links you may provide)

Thank you everyone for your help!

Someone I know who is investigating is having trouble understanding the priesthood and how it all works - I wanted to give him the handbook "Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood". However, I noticed that it's filled with tons of references from D&C, the BoM and Pearl of Great Price. Right now, he really needs the Bible to help confirm things for him. He has been a little frustrated that at church there is so much talk referring to modern day scriptures and not enough quoting from the bible. This is very frustrating. Any suggestions out there? He is struggling with believing that Joseph Smith was a prophet and that Hinckley was a prophet, that Monson is now a prophet and that there are actually modern day apostles. He has major authority issues. Help!