Stacey_Jay
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Posts posted by Stacey_Jay
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I'll mention one here: the Adam God theory taught by BY. When I first ran across the doctrine, I read what the apologists said that BY was taken out of context, etc. I liked that because it supported the idea that a prophet can't lead the church astray (i.e., infallible, in my mind). When faced with the Adam God, I became an apologist and used teh same arguments I had read.
Several years later, I encountered the Adam God teachings again, and I found the arguments I had rehearsed were contradicting. I investigated it more and discovered that no, BY did teach that Adam was our God, others believed it, and BY labeled those who opposed his doctrine "apostate". The worst feeling was that I felt betrayed by the apologists. They had fed me a false argument and I believed it.
I'm convinced from historical records that BY taught the doctrine; I'm convinced by the Spirit of God that BY was wrong. Given that BY taught false doctrine, I had to readjust my notion of what a prophet is. Prophets are fallible. That is one of the tenets of Mormonism. God is not going to intervene and correct a prophet's every mistake just as God doesn't meddle with my poor choice. Since BY was not perfect and had flaws and sins, it gives me hope that I may overcome.
As has been stated before, one's conviction must be founded on the Rock of Salvation. When that is shaky, it is easy for these questions to drive a wedge in our faith between us and God.
I agree that BY was wrong in what he taught concerning the Adam-God theory, and all what you say. But in that case, this confuses me with the authorities-if BY was wrong, desperately wrong, who's to say that what the prophets teach us now is also wrong? Do we have to pray and ask for confirmation of every single little thing they say? Yet the scripture says that if it comes from the mouth of one of my servants its the same as God speaking himself? This is so confusing to me, it cannot be both. This is an example of the church contradicting itself. What to do?
Stacey_Jay
I believe it is said in scripture that we won't receive a witness until we've had a trial of our faith.
Lol, so I have to go through something hard to believe? I think I have had many trials of faith. Maybe its now.
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Some may ask me why I joined if i never received proper confirmation. Others may say I did infact get it from my comments that I will write.
When I met my wife, I never knew she wa a Mormon and was only a little dissapointed to find out she was. I say a little becasue I knew nothing about them but it sounded weird if you know what i mean?
Anyway, as our relationship developed including her family and friends I began to learn a little more about the church, never intending to go any further than curiousity only. However, one day she informed me that she had decided that she wanted to go and do a temple service mission which devastated me, it really did! I wondered why someone would just get up and go, leaving me not being able to see her. I needed to understand why anyone would do such a thing so I agreed to take the missionary discussions just to find out about the church. Well, I was "comfortable" with much of what they were telling me. I was. I like the sound of Eternal Marriage" and one thing lead to another. I read many church leaflets about the 1st vision and being very open minded believed them. My prayers regarding the church still felt positively empty though. Still, after a fairly long period I decided to get baptized. I just assumed as i progressed the anser that it really was true would come along. I read the BoM from cover to cover and took the challenge. The answer never came.
Well I took to it like a duck to water and got stuck right in whilst my girlfriend (now wife) was away in the London Temple. Every day was really hard for me and i missed her terribly but I was now involved in what she believed so it was a little easier to bare.
I guess, I just wanted to believe it to be true so much I convinced myself it was. I conditioned my mind to just accept it.
So now I was never converted spiritually even though I thought I believed.
My wife is a lifelong member and attends every single week without fail. She is one of the most dilligent, caring people I know and she will do anything for anyone. She has never actually received a strong spiritual witness but still says she believes. I respec her totally. My childeren are too young to undestand these things fully but do ask me questions about why I no longer attend.
No, my life is now far from that of a faithful LDS. VERY FAR. I have packed my garment away, disregard the word of wisdom. Id just as well get my name removed.
Anyway, please no need to involve me in your prayers as nothing will come of it but I thank you so much for your sincere thoughts and care and your willingness to do this for me. Fasting and Prayer were very much a common thing for me but nothing ever came from my efforts involving fasting and prayer. Sorry, as for baring my testimony....I really struggle with the theory of baring atestimony to game testimony. IMO all that is that eventually you will convince yourself you have one. Blessings again wont help me. I have had bad experiences with them. Every blessing I have had say the same things. Most of the blessing I have received all tell me that "the lord blesses me with good health and is pleased with the way I have conducted my life". My health is awful and the way I live would not please the Lord.
So there you have it
Again thanks for your concerns.
Mike, I really connect woth what you're saying. I have been on and off in the church my whole life and so have been reading this thread with interest. At one point, I truly did believe the church is true, and my feeling that it was, was at one time enough to me to answer difficult questions. Now, not so much. I need to have answers, and telling me to pray or read my scriptires, or just a blanket of answer of 'the church is true so it doesnt matter' type responses only serve to increase my frustration.
I think where I am in the church at the moment is: Id like it to be true, but Im not sure if it is. Even if it is true, I dont know if I can stand to belong to an institution that gives a pure whitewashed bubble-gum version of its history to attract members. I really feel so uncomfortable with that. When I discovered certain things about the church, I was deeply shocked and upset and very confused.
There are certain aspects of the church that I think must make it true-the Book of Mormon. I dont feel Joseph could have written it himself. No teenager could come up with that. Yet on the other hand, if it is true, why do we never ever speak about the stone in the hat?
My patriarchal blessing-its such a small thing but still niggles at me-it said to 'continue with the genealogy work you enjoy'. I had never met the patriarch before till that day. I was doing genealogy and really enjoying it at the time. How could he know that? On the other hand, some things it says are absolutely false. Confusing.
Im not sure if the temple is from God, and I was deeply deeply disturbed by the old tempple death rites. It made me feel very uncomfortable-very dark and sparked off one of my periods of inactivity. Im too scared to go back there, its too overwhelming. Its too similar to masonry, so Im not sure if I can accept its from God. Yes I have prayed hours and hours over this and no answer ever came. I have fasted once and fainted so I wont be doing that again. And no answer came.
When I have put these questions to people they usually say I dont have enough faith which I find incredibly insulting. How do they know how much faith I have? I have it in buckets buyt I am also an educated woman who can read and think for herself. I don't let the church do the thinking for me.
Having said all this, I find myself still drawn to the church. Maybe its habit, familiarity, Im not sure. Im also not sure if Ill ever gain an answer to my questions. Prayer etc has not worked and members dont have the answers either. So I suppose I will only find out when I die. Until then, I have to decide how to live my life, and that has been the ongoing challenge for me. Its very difficult.
Mike, I really understand where you are coming from. Its so hard. *sigh* Some things in life we will never know. Perhaps I just need to accept the church is one of them and move on with my life.
So they are my reasons for leaving the church (on and off!) anyway.
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I smoked during my teen rebellion. But I was never addicted. I just did it to be cool. I stopped when I wanted to with no problems. jbs is right, it depends whether u have an addictive personality or not. A support group might help so u can help each other.
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Interesting hread. I too have always had problems with prayer. Ive never felt Ive got anything out of it, or answered. I feel a little silly truth be told, talking to someone who isnt there. I never know what to say either, or even what to pray about. When I do get down to pray my mind goes blank, I never have anything to say. The visualising ideas are good. I still feel a little uncomfortable praying though.h
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I never got used to the garments either. I too swore I would't wear them after my endowment. I did, but dont so much these days. Its been stunningly gorgeous english weather lately getting upto 30 degrees so I havent worn them lately. Im glad you had a good experience. Congratulations.
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This is an amazing statement, Stacey. Do you really believe that a person does not have the right to feel guilty about failing to keep his/her covenants? I find that attitude astounding.
I get a significant tax break every year by claiming my tithing and offerings as charitable donations. I would not be able to do that if things were done as you suggest.
In order to get a temple recommend, you must be a full tithe payer (or at least claim to be such). Records, of which the Lord has repeatedly commanded the Church to keep, help us know whether we are in fact full tithe payers.
Those whose duty it is to make such decisions apparently disagree with you.
I just feel its our choice whether to do these things or not. They may be commandments but its upto us to decide if we live it.
By the way, what does tax have to do with tithing?????
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I think I've had it. I go to a singles ward in the Salt Lake valley, not a student ward, it mostly has older people who are into their careers and things. Well you wouldn't think it was this way with people in their mid-late twenties, but about 95% of the ward are flakes. Complete and total flakes. Tell me if anyone "gets" this.
--I make a visiting teaching appointment, and both my companion and the visiting teachee flake out--they have other things to do.
--For the past 5 months I've done visiting teaching alone and haven't even gotten to know my new comp, because she won't answer her phone or email. I can't find her apartment, because she gave the ward the wrong address.
--When it's time to clean the church building, you can always count on the SFP...the same five people. I've gotten really good at washing windows. C'mon, people, 10:00 is not that early!
--RS Enrichment only about 5-10 people come. Last Enrichment not even the RS president came.
--The Activities committee has not had their monthly activity for the past 4 months. They announce it...and then cancel it due to lack of planning. Nice.
--The Fellowshipping chair calls and reminds people, including her own committee, to bring food they signed up for for the munch and mingle, and--suprise!--they don't. They do expect to still eat the food, though. Nice, huh? The last time this happened the munch and mingle turned out to be a disaster, and the bishopbric gave the fellowshipping chair a talking-to. She hasn't come to church since. Surprise.
--The committee I helm (FHE) and my co-chair are often given extra assignments in the ward, such as passing out flyers, ward reps for the region, taking over for the Activities committee, and hurry-quick please do this to cover for the deadbeats, because we're the few people in the ward who actually follow through on stuff.
--I, and most of the other people in the ward, haven't been home-taught for over a year. I don't even recognize the names of my home teachers though I am pretty familiar with most people in the ward. Nice, huh?
All right, enough whining. That was a lot of whining. Sorry. But you get the point. My ward is DEADBEAT! I keep thinking if I have a positive attitude and just work at being the best ward leader there is, work hard and plan hard, then at least I won't get my eyeballs sucked out at the second coming. But yesterday was the last straw. I passed around a sign-up sheet for an activity a week away, asking people for their email addresses if they were willing to share an anscestor story. I emphasized that it was important everyone participated because the success of the activity depended on them, and we were really looking forward to hearing everyone's cool stories.
A total of 3 people signed up. The munch and mingle sign-up sheet (passed around by the RS pres, since the fellowshipping chair has quit the ward) was more of a success. They got 5 whole signatures. There were about 30 people in the RS room. You'd think that these same people who bore their testimony in tears every Fast Sunday had a strong enough testimony to bring a crummy bag of cookies to a stupid munch and mingle!!!!
Well that's my vent. So here's my question: I want to move out of the ward, really, really bad and go to a family ward. For most of my single-adult life I have gone to a family ward and have loved it. BUT would I be as flakey as the people in my current ward if I left because my ward was flakey? I'm not a fan of quitting, but I honestly don't know if I can take this ward anymore. I once told the bishop I was moving out and he looked like he was going to cry. I'm not sure what to do.
I think you are worrying about other people too much, and it can come accross as a bit self righteous. People do not have to turn upto ward activities. People are allowed to have a life outside of church.
Plus, you say its a singles ward. Most people will be young and enjoying going to uni and having freedom for the first time. There's nothing wrong with that. Give them a break! If you want to attend everything and do what you're doing good for you. Just dont judge people by your standards. People have their own choice.
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Shrinking. We've had 4 families move out of the ward in the last year. Most converts dont stay long and the ones scheduled for baptism have all pulled out. We get about 60 people on an average Sunday.
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I dont have children myself, but our education system works differently. Here, kids go to nursery at around 2 years old. they start school at 4, in reception which is i suppose the american version of kindergarten. I would definitely send my children to nursery as I would not want them to be at a disadvantage when they start school. I think English kids start school earlier than most countries but I think its the best way. We have an American girl in our ward and she said the english education is much better than what she had in the states. She said you could almost get through school without even looking at a map!!!! I thought she was joking at first. So based on that analysis, I would send my kids to nursery. Its only 2 or 3 half days a week anyway.
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No one has the right to judge you or make you feel guilty for not paying tithing-including yourself! Its an intensely private and personal thing. Loudmouth, why would you need a list of people who didnt pay? Im just curious as to what the bishop would do with that information. Ive always felt uncomfortable with the way tithing is handled and processed. I think there should be like a collection jar like they do in other churches-it would have to be cash-that people can donate anonymously. I really dont get tithing settlements and such. Really, why do they have to know? I think anonymous donantions are better.
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exactly my point stacey! well, their loss as i'm married 6 yrs now!
They are the ones missing out :)
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It better be a joke daniel, as Ive been waiting ages to see this film-It comes out on Friday here and we are going to see it for our wedding anniversary :) I LOVED batman begins I thought it was one of the best films Ive ever seen, so I am very excited to see this one. In fact, I will watch batman begins again tonight seeing as Ive been reminded of it!!! I looooove Christian Bale-he's a brit dontcha know?!!
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i was inactive just out of high school until i was over 30 yrs old. when i became active again i went to several single lds chat sites. so many times i would get a pm chat message that the first thing was "RM?", not even hi how are you, or my name is...
it got to where i wouldn't even click on those popups. i did eventually marry someone from ldschat, but she didnt care about that.
seriosusly?? That is outrageous. How shallow minded can some people be?! Also just because you've been on a mission doesnt make you a wonderful brilliant person-I know a few 'RMs' who are idiots!!!!
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So far, no one I have spoken to has been able to answer my questions. My bishop just tells me to pray and read my scriptures-this is half the problem, ive done it for years and gained nothing from it. I have more specific questions that can't be answered by prayer. Anyhow, thanks for the address.
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At the Beehive clothing store there is a size chart that correlates a persons measurements with the sizing on the clothing. The same chart can be accessed on-line when purchasing temple clothing from the Church website.
Usually the workers at the store (or on the phone) are good about helping one to find the appropriate size.
Unopened packages can be returned. When purchasing clothing items from Beehive clothing, the workers generally suggest to only open one package, try the items on...then, if the fit or material is not correct, the other unopened packages can be returned/exchanged for a different size/style/material.
With all due respect, the sizing chart bears little or no relation to the size you actually need. Its oure trial and error. I have to buy one item at a time, try it on before ordering more if it fits. If not, Ive wasted money as you cant return it once uve tried it on. I find the whole thing stressful and difficult. Ive had a really hard time with garments. I can't help but feel theres a better way to show our committment to God.
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I think sleepovers a part of growing up. I think the bad experiences here are unfortunate but rare. When I was a young teenager I think I went to a sleepover almost every week! Nothing bad ever happened, it was innocent-we talked about boys, of course, did each others make up and hair and talked until it was light outside. If I remember rightly most of our conversation was focused on periods rather than porn or anything innapropriate. It was fantastic bonding for me and my friends and one girl I am still close to to this day. Ahhhh the memories. Those were the days.......
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Fent, you said you wrote to the first presidency. I will ask you how you went about this but anyone else can reply too...how do you go about this as this is something Ive considered doing and your post made me decide to do it. Can you write to them as a presidency or individually? Do they personally read it or is done through a secretary? Where can I get an address? Thanks to anyone who replies.
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we try to but supermarket own brand instead of the more expensive brands. You can't really tell the difference and it saves so much. I also take left over dinner to work with me. I also set a budget for certain things, like, 6 pounds for my lunches aqll week. Its amazing what you can do when you put your mind to it!!
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Why have so many people got rid of their landlines??? I wouldn't be without mine. Its cheaper. We pay as we go, like a mobile. If I put 20 quid on it, thats what we use. When its gone its gone. That will lasat us a month. hubbys mobile bill i just paid today was 43 quid. More than double. Its cheaper to call on a landline. Plus u need a line for the internet. I would never get rid of mine!
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Worry is at tool of Satan.... .
Im not sure I agree with that prospectmom. Worry is a natural part of being a parent, and you are bound to worry about people you love. I worry all the time about my husband getting home safe etc. Are you saying thats Satan??
Unix...sounds like you are doing all the right things. Ultimately, you should want your children to be happy with or without the church. Would it be such a bad thing if they didn't go so long as they were happy? I think thats whats important.
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I am something of a free spirit. Im not sure I would define myself as a feminist in the burning bras sense, however, I do have a hard time with women's role in the church. I think women have the right to work and a career just as much as men. I dont think children should suffer for it, but who's to say the man can't stay at home if the woman earns more?? Also, I dont like the pressure on women to just find husbands and reproduce. Although having a family is undoubtedly a positive for most people, I think its a very personal decision and not one anybody should make for another. If a couple decides not to have children I think that is between them and God. I dont like the judging that goes on in the church over these issues. I hear members say all the time how men and women are equal in the church but just with different roles. I feel this is untrue.
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I always thought the Nephites would look like the Indians in last of the Mohicans....But thinking about it if they came from Jeruasalem they were probably olive skinned like the people who live there today are.
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Ok, a woman's perspective. I would allow it. How old is your son? The chances are he wont even really grasp or understand the situation anyway. I remember my Parents saying things to me about when I was a child, and I did not pick up on the situation atall. If you do nothing he will probably think nothing of it. Kids are not as judging as adults.
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Hi everyone.
Well I suppose I will introduce myself as I get the feeling thats what Im supposed to do! Im Stacey, 26 from Somerset in the UK. My church background is a bit complicated but I hope you will all bear with me as my story is the reason I am here.
My family joined when I was 8. I went until I was about 14 then rebelled and refused to go anymore. I still had contact with members through youth activities that my Dad hed in our home as he was YM pres. I also went to school with several members. Anyway to cut a long story short I started dating my now husband at 17. He was one of these members so I started going again for him. I didnt really reconcile myself completely with church, but I sort of pushed my doubts to the back of my mind as we were now getting married and did so when I was 20. We were sealed. I managed to hang in the church until about 18 months after the wedding when I felt I couldnt deal with it anymore. The whole wedding and sealing confused me more and I started to feel uncomfortable at church so I stopped going again.
However, I still felt as if something was missing when I was away from the church so I eventually started coming again. That was about 18 months ago too. Im now back where I started feeling uncomfortable with some of the teachings, feeling like I dont really belong, and not really getting a lot of of church. Ive tried praying and reading my scriptures but I never get any answers and reall feel nothing when I do this. Im getting fed up of yo-yo ing back and forth all the time its starting to mess with my head. I seem to spend all my time and energy thinking about the church, whether Im active or not. I feel I need to make a decision one way or another but which I dont know. How do I make that decision and stick to it wothout thinking about if I should have done the other? Im really sorry to go on, but I have come here for some support and advice of people who might feel like me. So thank you all for listening to my ramblings! I hope I can find some answers. Thanks,
Stacey
Ring Ceremony
in Young Single Adults, College and Institute
Posted
Is there any chance you could get married civilly and then be sealed later? That way, everyone wins. Your families can attend, and then when you do get sealed you can focus on that just the two of you without worrying about the family that arent allowed to attend?
Thinking of my own wedding in the UK-We do this but are allowed to get sealed on the same day, I really dont know why its different for America, it seems desperately unfair. I would have been extremely upset if I didnt have a wedding. It breaks my heart to think people miss out on this. I cant give any advice on a ring ceremony, as Ive never been involved with one. Id say have a proper wedding, and get sealed after. Once you've got married, you realise how fast a year goes and it would be something to look forwardf to. Just my thoughts :)