Calypso

Ruthie, that may have been explained to you, but Jesus Christ did say in various scriptures that a gossipping, lying , judgemental, angry and unkind tongue may not be murder of the flesh but akin to murder of the another's soul and therefore just as serious a sin. Pride, Greed, Hatred and Selfishness affect other people very negatively and directly too. The only sin that is greater than all other is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Liesl, no, you are not to be blamed for the things he has done, he alone had the agency to do those things. No-one has agency on the behalf or for someone else. You are absolutely allowed to feel the emotions you do. If you were my daughter, I would certainly not tolerate such accusations and weak excuses from her husband. A man with honour treats his wife with respect, love, caring and takes responsibility for the consequences of his actions. An honourable , worthy husband and priesthood holder, firstly has Heavenly Father, thereafter ALL his wife's and childrens's needs as well as the edification of his family, on his agenda and will sacrifice his own "pleasures" in order to provide for them first and foremost. I'll quote what I added on in previous section again: "I feel I have the responsiblity to add the following:- for the younger generation reading this thread, it is important to note, whichever way, it is not for any reason justifyable or excusible whatsover for men or women to indulge in pornography, infidelity, addictions or abuse. It is no-one else's weakness but those who have succumbed to it. To wives with husbands who have succumbed to pornography, indfidelity, abuse, addictions etc, as a husband and priesthood holder I have to say;- your husband had agency when choosing to do so, you did not "make" him. That goes for addictions too. Two wrongs have never made a "right" . Husbands, it is up to you through Heavenly Father to make yourselves strong and resist temptation, it is not up to your wife to do so for you., it is your responsibilty as her spouse alone! Husbands if you have succumbed, seek help and atonement, repent and renew yourself. Husbands, if you have blamed your weaknesses on your wife, be ashamed, humble yourself and seek reperation and forgiveness from your wife and Heavenly Father.Heavenly Father has promised to forgive those who who seek atonement and truly repent, as we are all imperfect humans. Heavenly Father has given you agency and His Word and Knowledge to use it. The same goes to wives who have succumbed to these "weaknesses". Only once both parties in a marriage have contributed equally, with equal effort can it work". May Heavenly Father guide you in your prayers and for what lies ahead.

RC, I agree with you that this is a subject of prayer for Liesl. As I did say , let Heavenly Father guide you... With regard to the other issues, only she and her husband have with Heavenly Father know all the details. I did not speak against you, we both are adding to this post. I merely pointed out that in some cases there is a party that has suffered more and a party that has caused more stress, and sometimes a marriage is in trouble not because of a lack of trying everything from the wife's part. I have recently dealt with a very distraught close family member who had been hiding her husband's addiction's and abuse(not physical, but mental). Her story rang very close to Liesl's. Hence my "passionate" reaction. She truly went out of her way, to her own destruction to be and do all she could for him. They were married for 11 years, and after a counselling process she put her heart in, it was truly discovered that she did all she could, all the small things, the important things, in fact so much that she enabled him to continue the cycle. Which was not so good. Yes no humanbeing is perfect, and we all need to work on ourselves. She worked honestly and openly on her weaknesses, grew and tried to gain insight. He declared in a counselling session that there was nothing wrong with him and did not need to change anything. Long story short, I have a dear close family member who is an emotional and mental wreck because of staying in a soul destructing marriage. With help she is healing, but a long road lies ahead before she can function effectively as a complete strong woman and a mother to her children. Your insights are true and there are many aspects to consider, granted. However being so close to a situation as I have been that as a man and husband, I have seen firsthand the destruction a thoughtless selfish husband can cause to a good loving daughter of Heavenly Father. It saddened me and "sobered" me that a fellow man could do such a thing. We are supposed to be protectors and use our priesthood to the edification of our wives and children and not use it to break down and abuse. I feel I have the responsiblity to add the following:- for the younger generation reading this thread, it is important to note, whichever way, it is not for any reason justifyable or excusible whatsover for men or women to indulge in pornography, infidelity, addictions or abuse. It is no-one else's weakness but those who have succumbed to it. To wives with husbands who have succumbed to pornography, indfidelity, abuse, addictions etc, as a husband and priesthood holder I have to say;- your husband had agency when choosing to do so, you did not "make" him. That goes for addictions too. Two wrongs have never made a "right" . Husbands, it is up to you through Heavenly Father to make yourselves strong and resist temptation, it is not up to your wife to do so for you., it is your responsibilty as her spouse alone! Husbands if you have succumbed, seek help and atonement, repent and renew yourself. Husbands, if you have blamed your weaknesses on your wife, be ashamed, humble yourself and seek reperation and forgiveness from your wife and Heavenly Father.Heavenly Father has promised to forgive those who who seek atonement and truly repent, as we are all imperfect humans. Heavenly Father has given you agency and His Word and Knowledge to use it. The same goes to wives who have succumbed to these "weaknesses". Only once both parties in a marriage have contributed equally, with equal effort can it work. Liesl a challenging time lies before you, at some stage it will be important to search for the answer in your own heart with honesty with the guidance of Heavenly Father. These posts may shed light, and there will come a time whereby you have to stop seeking advice from others and seek inwards and upwards for the answer. Counselling too will be important to unravel all the tangled thoughts and feelings. May you be guided by Heavenly Father in His Will.

I do have to disagree with that statement. Not to deviate from the post, but if this were an abusive situation (of which there are elements here)... would you still say it's the woman's fault for being abused? and that she had as much fault in it as the abuser? Is it the woman's fault that her husband has uncontrollable addictions? This is a whole different jar of cookies. If this man has been continually unfaithful to his wife and neglecting his family for 12 years and continues to do so, it is not her fault, it speaks more of his character. He has been given many chances of a period of 12 years, if he hasn't put in sincere effort up to now, the chances are he never will. Is it healthy to continually expose children to an unhealthy situation for the sake of staying in a farce of a marriage , for a marriage's sake? From what I can gather is that this woman is experiencing a myriad of tumultuous emotions, hurt, grief, anger, sadness, disappointment, disillusioned etc. to such an extent that she has become emotionally blunted, presenting symptoms of PTSD. What was said was not intent on blaming, it is focussing on the facts and honestly perceiving and acknowledging the emotions that go with it, in order to work through and deal with those suppressed feelings to facilitate moving on. One cannot effectily deal with hurt or emotions if they are not named, described and the consequences thereof highlighted.This however needs to be done in counselling. Denial or intellectualising has never solved a problem from the core. Only once that is done and all is in the open, these issues can be openly dealt with in order to learn and grow from. Many woman with addicted spouses find themselves in a situation of loosing their own personal boundaries and accept the responsibility for their spouse's actions and suffer with their children because of that. They forget who they are and what Heavenly Father had in mind for them. It is not a healthy situation at all. RC , It is wonderful you and your husband have found each other again. Being in one, I do believe every marriage is different with its own sets of challenges and unique characteristics and should be dealt with accordingly. One cannot use the same brush for all hair types the same way one cannot use the same solution in solving different situations.

Liesl, it seems as if you are a good caring woman and loved child of Heavenly Father. It is a terrible, painful heartbreaking time to be in when one realises and acknowledges one's marriage is in trouble and has been for many years, despite all your efforts in saving it. A Marriage is entered with two people, and as such such both need to add equal effort to make it work. I couldn't help but notice after seeing your prior posts in the forum "A no sex affair" and "Dealing with infidelity" that you have been through a trying, hurtful ,traumatic and what must be degrading time, I'm sure. Your husband's intellectualisation/justification of having to flirt with the girls after his giggs(that in front of you, a degrading act towards you) and then doing various things with a groupy to keep business going... now that's the worst excuse I've ever heard to justify infidelity or an affair! Indications are that he will never admit that it is wrong either, considering he is according to you still endulging in pornography. When one is able to say that a weakness is stronger than another person, the word addiction comes to mind. An addiction is an illness, and unless he acknowledges it and does something pro-active about that , it will never change. Having your 5 year old son exposed to that was a criminal act! I wouldn't expose my 3 children to a man that allowed that to happen! Depending which country one lives in, children can be removed from their homes for that alone! I also sensed that he has neglected you and your children by what you have written. It seems his "hobby's" and interests at home take presidence over his family's needs. That in itself is a sin. The mere fact that you wrote "a single married mom" speaks volumes. The picture that is painted here is that you have been trying all the right steps,being patient and very forgiving, but after 12 years of his "infidelity" and trying from your side most of the time to save the marriage with very little effort from his side, I can understand that one reaches a stage of "enough" and numbness and that love dies. You did mention that you noticed him trying to change things... are these long lasting self-denying, self-sacrificing efforts a deep true changing such as seeking help for his addictions, acknowledging his sins and seeking atonement for his behaviour and infidelity?. Do these changes include him forsaking some of his hobby's and spending more time with the family? OR are the efforts and changes a surface change of such a nature that require as very little effort as possible as not be too uncomfortable for him? What is kept in mind is that you did mention that things have happened from both sides, however I do get the impression that he contributed a great deal more, and has yet to seek atonement, whereas you have been trying your utmost. Keep in mind that your children are growing up in an environment where the example of a marriage they see right now is everything but healthy. Communication skills, examples set etc. Children learn from their behaviour from their parents and what they do, and not what they say, the learning from seeing the example; this forms the foundation of the way they will approach life as adults and develop effective or defective coping skills. Already you are saying your children aren't coping. Children are very sensitive to their environment, the may need counselling and professional help themselves, whichever decision you make. I cannot give advice, mearly write what I perceive here, I do believe that you are correct in saying that you need to make a decision soon. It may be that you have the answer already and are terrified of pulling through with it. The handbook says there are two justified reasons to end a marriage, one is if one partner breaks the other's soul or spirit, the other is infidelity. I believe both play a role here. May Heavenly Father guide you in this decision.