ldsmissionary

Weren't we just talking about knocking doors? Can we simply speak to that point or must we zig zag about and then lean towards the ad hominem path? Listen, if there weren't BELIEVING MORMONS hired to make critical decisions about the marketing strategies and growth initiatives of the LDS church, do you honestly think the Mormon gospel would have a fighting chance in today's competitive religious atmosphere? The truth of the matter is that there has to be some amount of business sense in 'communicating' the message of the Mormon faith. Knocking doors is an old and archaic selling strategy. I'm 100% for sharing the message of Mormonism. On the professional level, I've helped believing marketing strategists at LDS, Inc. to explore answers to their questions about how to better spread their brand. It's a good thing. It's okay to have friends that think and believe differently.

Read some ideas here.

Just noticed you served in China. Much success there? Which is expected. Sure, sure. But if we're completely honest, we know that the LDS church employs marketing teams to make this 'spiritual' conversion much easier. The LDS church has placed an incredible emphasis on knowing their customers, especially in the last 10 years. Their focus now is brand development rather than direct marketing. Sure, but weren't we talking about knocking doors? Politics within the mission field are a completely different beast to tackle. Sales opportunities? I agree. All missionaries will have that task. It's sad that they have to resort to it. My profile should still be working. I'm an open ex-Mormon. I did serve a full-time mission in Mexico. The point we've been speaking to, for my part anyway, is knocking doors. I truly feel terrible that missionaries are reduced to knocking doors like vacuum cleaner salesmen. This time could be better spent on humanitarian efforts rather than annoying people in their homes.

It was, if missionaries live right, they're supposed to be guided to the 'right' doors. What are we to derive from missionaries who knock their little fingers off but never make a sale? They weren't living right? Actually, missionaries at the MTC are taught to be obedient to the GOSPEL. Mission Presidents happen to have the great honor of hosting the missionaries during their time in the mission field. Speaking back to the subject of door-knocking, mission presidents are being instructed to keep knocking to a minimum. It's a last resort of all of the possible mission activities that can be done. Deliberately? You have data to support this? My personal observation is that the new mission presidents are given adequate time with the outgoing mission presidents along with contact information to continue communication should anything come up down the road that needs clarification. The Area Authorities are also instructed to bend over backwards to make these transitions incredibly easy for the new mission presidents. If anything, the LDS church deliberately makes a tremendous effort to make new mission presidents' lives much easier than just 'drop 'em in the field and let the spirit guide.' I completely agree. But we were talking about 'door-knocking' specifically, weren't we?

Retired. :)

Whoa, sign me up. I think Olive Garden is doing their never-ending pasta bowl.

I can understand that. My family was a knocked family. But it's not the glamor game. It's the efficiency game. Missionaries are taught in the MTC to avoid knocking doors like the plague. It's an activity for when there's absolutely NOTHING else that can be done. And if the missionaries begin thinking of knocking doors, they should explore every other option to avoid it. Because it's ineffective. It's marketing yuck. Soooo, if the 'right' doors don't get knocked (e.g. failure to make a sale) it's because God is punishing the missionaries for not living 'right' enough? Because the reality is that unworthy missionaries are baptizing in huge numbers anywhere south of the border and parts of Africa. Hundreds. And unworthy. But even the worthiest of all righteous men/women come home with zero baptisms almost anywhere else. Is it really all that great of a skill to be able to knock a door and pitch a sale? Is this what RM's have to look forward to when they get home? 'Welcome home, Elder. With your great door-knocking skills, you can tackle the world!' (Intentional dramatics.) Seems to me your son was living right. He knocked on the 'right' doors during University to earn some money. :)

Here's how my wife and I tackle this. My wife is a believer. I am no longer a believer. She isn't working. I am. After all of the bills are paid, we split the 'increase.' She pays tithing on hers. I don't tithe on mine. I do have more fun with my charitable contributions than she does. She's recently taken notice and didn't pay tithing to the LDS church in August. Instead, she gave her tithe to some fun charities with me.

I used to believe that there was an apostasy and that God simply could not have restored the 'truth' a minute earlier than he did. The facts simply don't support that belief for me anymore. I used to think that the idea of an 'Apostasy' originated with the Mormons - the folks who 'restored' the gospel. Made sense to me at the time. But then I discovered The 'Restoration Movement' (e.g. the Stone-Campbell movement) which began around 1800. Many groups sprang up from this movement. Many calling themselves the 'Church of Christ.' They all claimed a restored gospel. Including a church started by Joseph Smith, Jr. Apparently, the LDS God chose to call his church the exact same name that all of the other restorationist churches were using, and many years earlier at that. Not very original or very forward thinking considering the church underwent several inspired name changes since. Why not call it what it would be called? And does history really tell us that there was absolutely no other time or place that the Mormon church could have been started? I guess it just depends on which religious glasses you're wearing.

That said, I'm pretty sure Christ found the movie funny. The message was uplifting.

Single sole. That's funny. Knocking doors really is a waste of time. 'We' (e.g. those coordinating the missionary efforts of ANY church) can do so much better. We do what we know, and when we know better, we do better. Or we should, anyway. :) The last market study that the LDS church conjured up to form the 'Truth Restored' marketing campaign found that: They needed a different approach to reach their audience.People do not know the church or care about it.The LDS church should shift to focusing on brand development rather than direct marketing.You can read about it here. An incredibly powerful marketing truth, is that people hate door-to-door salesmen. Hate 'em.

City of Enoch... that's more than a few handfuls of folks. And hey, if you want more trials after conquering old ones, we get what we attract. Now, pardon me while I go attract some happiness. :)

I was speaking directly to the issue, that without the atonement, the Mormon God is powerless to save even a molecule on this earth. That's a very clear LDS theological point that I'm sure I understand very well.

I'm certainly an open ex-Mormon. Hopefully my profile still works. Speaking to the issue of grace directly as it exists within LDS theology, without the atonement, God the Father is impotent to extend any amount of grace to save a single soul. There is absolutely no question within the LDS theology, that were there no atonement, God would be completely powerless to save anything on this earth. That's the issue that I'm speaking to.

I think we all caught that.

Technically, the Mormon God has no grace to impart. LDS theology points sinners to Jesus Christ's atonement for their saving grace needs. Within Mormonism, were it not for the atonement, God wouldn't be able to help a single soul.

Selling Mormonism on sites that aren't friendly to Mormons is probably as effective as knocking doors in the mission field.

He certainly didn't know how to behave.

Not entirely true. LDS theology is filled with stories of saints being translated for having overcome their weaknesses. Enjoy to the end, not just endure, right? The best time to be happy is now. It's okay to be you, shortcomings and all. Within the LDS mindset, agency (paid for via the atonement) secures a simple truth; God doesn't give you weaknesses. He won't magically provide you with character flaws just to keep you busy. Seems contrary to his agenda. You're free to be as strong or as weak as you like. Temptation really boils down to choice. Your agency, if you will. Mormons believe that the devil tempts them. Some struggle with temptations that others don't. They CHOOSE to struggle with those temptations while others choose NOT to struggle with those very same temptations. In reality, we really do choose our weaknesses and our strengths. Since leaving the LDS faith, I've enjoyed a completely new way of looking at being a better person. Personally, I've divorced myself from the thought that some devil parades around tempting people to choose one action over another. People are devilish enough to come up with their own self-temptations. Conversely, as a believing Mormon I enjoyed chasing the idea that we're just as tempted to do GOOD as we are to do EVIL. If Satan and his group were parading around tempting everyone to be bad then certainly God and his group were parading around tempting everyone to be good. After Mormonism, I still hold on to that idea - that we can just as easily choose to make a difference as we can to choose not to.

It's a scary religious world out there, for sure. People ready to pounce on you before you even have a chance to speak up.

You didn't see anything.

My wonderful wife forced me to go see this movie. It was much funnier than I had expected. Shows a nude tush for a moment. If you're not super offended by seeing a tush then you'll probably enjoy the humor. I was expecting this movie to be incredibly dumb. It really did exceed my expectations in the humor department. Has its corny and cheesy moments. Fun movie all around.

Glad to have you here, and it's exciting to see that you've found a great path. Follow your heart and follow truth wherever it takes you. :)

HiJolly, I can tell that I'm going to like you a lot. I was the same way when I first saw the South Park episode on Mormonism. All things being equal, they do a good job of poking fun at a lot of religions. 'Course they weren't completely honest or fair with their version of LDS history, but that's pretty much par for the course with these cartoon people. I really liked the ending, how the Mormon kid ended up being super cool and putting the 'boys' in their place for behaving so poorly.

Candyprpl, I like you already. :) I'm the same way. To put your mind at ease, you could pray about it. Let the spirit guide, right? Or I can just tell you that I'm super friendly. I come in peace. And don't be sad, I'm following my heart and living my truth. I want that for EVERYBODY, including the LDS. Wherever our hearts take us. We can all work together to make this world a better place.