erichard

Hi, This is my understanding of this matter. I have considered it for a long time. The term God does not refer to just one finite personage. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost-- the God of this Earth-- are three finite personages, but they are one God. That is because they are in perfect unity as taught in John 17. Except for the creedal use of these terms, the terms "Father" and "Son" in EVERY other usage refer to beings in a lineage. In the Mormon understanding, the Son really did become like His Father. And the Father really was once a son. Just like these terms imply in normal usage. That means that God the Father has a resurrected body. Hmm. How did He get that? Well, the same way Christ obtained His resurrected body. And this means by any understanding that the word God refers to an infinite Lineage of exalted beings. Go read the words of the Hymn, "If You Could Hie to Kolob". This lineage has no beginning. This is hard for us to understand. But apparently the reason is because we do not fully understand what "time" is. So the UNION of exalted finite beings that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are part of IS uncreated, infinite, eternal, all-knowing, all-powerful, etc etc. In other words, it has all of the attributes that many associate with GOD. All beings in this UNION are in a state of eternal progression, but the UNION itself is eternally perfect in all attributes. It is my understanding that Jesus was the Only Begotten of His Father on this earth. His Father was a Savior of a previous earth, and Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, doing the same works and gaining the same position as Savior of the World for this earth. We are NOT of the Savior lineage, but we are of the lineage that can become Joint-Heirs with the Savior. Abraham and Sarah are examples for us as we seek this reward.

Well Tree, You are welcome to read the 2BC and determine if it is true revelation from a living prophet. If it is, then it belongs to you as much as it does to anyone on earth. The true Word of the Lord is precious. But I guess I could tell you my understanding of the matter. But what if I am wrong, and do not explain it correctly? You probably better study it yourself and not trust another person's judgment. Read D&C 132:44. It teaches that if a man is married in the New and Everlasting Covenant of marriage, and he commits adultery then his wife and children are to be given to another man who has been faithful. There is no reason to believe the man has to already be married, but neither is there any reason to believe he could not be married. So as I see it, the 2BC teaches "Polygyny when necessary". If you really want to discuss this in detail, you could join this yahoo group which studies the 2BC revelations: SecondBookOfCommandments Yahoo group Richard

Hi tree, I am in no position to judge that matter. I would suggest that you should hang in there and do the best you can. Because at some point the Lord has promised to cleanse His Gentile church and set it in order again. I believe the "Parable of the Pear Tree" which speaks of this. Richard http://www.2bc.info/R24.html Parable of the Pear Tree

Hi MM, Well, the Lord revealed that all things in the church were to be done by "common consent." If I truly believe that I should NOT sustain the President of the church, do you believe I should be automatically excommunicated? Probably not. But what if I also wanted the right, in good faith, to seek for a D&C 107:81-84 type trial to settle a sincere controversy over the church President. And I wanted the right to not reject the evidences for such a trial before the controversy was settled. Should that be allowed? I claimed that right and was cast out of the church. The only charge against me was apostasy. I simply cannot trust what happened was done by the right spirit. There definitely was a spirit of subtle coercion seeking to force me into conformity. Furthermore, my conscience continues to tell me that the evidences for serious problems in the church leadership today are way too serious to ignore. Richard

Hi Interested, I am getting into this late, but do have some thoughts that you should consider. I am Mormon, but not LDS. I only speak for myself. A person can believe the Bible, every word of it, and fully accept the Mormon faith. But a person cannot accept the Creeds and be Mormon. In the Mormon faith, the creeds, developed by philosophers, were added for political purposes to the Bible understanding in defiance of Rev 22:18 . They are not correct. The Mormon faith has further understanding to better understand the Bible also: but it comes from the same source as the Bible itself: The Word of the Lord to the Prophets of Israel. In the creedal Trinity understanding, God is an infinite, immaterial, uncreated, inconceivable being outside of time and space that created all things out of nothing. Jesus is this God and at the same time the finite, begotten human Jesus of Nazareth. In the Mormon faith, there is just one Jesus, the one in the Bible. He is not something totally different at the same time. He is a being we can conceive of becoming like, because we can read about his life and he was not so different than us. So how can the finite, begotten Jesus be the Almighty God without being something else at the same time? Because he is united in heart and mind with His eternal Father: a being who is finite, who also lived on an earth and overcame all things, but is now resurrected and perfect. And ultimately, God is an INFINITE family union of resurrected, exalted men and women who are finite and in a state of eternal progression. However, the INFINITE eternal union itself is not progressing: it eternally has all power, all knowledge, all perfection. So there is really only ONE God, but God is not one personage: God is an INFINITE family of perfect beings like ourselves from previous earths. Those who become Joint Heirs with Christ, such as Abraham and Sarah, will be one with this union and share in its Eternal work and glory. They will be Gods. I have tried to express the essence of my Mormon faith. The Book of Mormon does not teach what I have said, but it does teach the path to gain the Gift of the Holy Ghost, which leads to these truths and much, much more truth. Richard

Hi everyone, This expression: "Obedience is the first law of heaven" is not in the scriptures. Surely, obedience is a true and important principle, but is it really the "first law of heaven"? But even if it is, I truly believe when obedience is taught, the following needs to also be taught: In any dictatorial system (the extreme norm throughout the history of mankind) it is very clear: OBEDIENCE truly is the first, and really the only law! Bossy husbands, bossy wives, bossy bosses, bossy kings, etc all DEMAND complete obedience right now! When I read the Mormon accounts of Adam and Eve, it is story of disobedience, and yet it was still best that Adam and Eve disobeyed! "And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient. " The errors we make can always be blessings if we simply learn from them. God wants us to seek happiness, and to be true to our own selves. The principle of total obedience without it coming truly from the heart is not the object of God. He wants us to grow and progress and gain happiness, and gives us lots of room to disobey various laws and truths, learn from our errors, and then gain forgiveness through the atonement. I am sure in Heaven there is strict obedience to the laws of Heaven. But it is an obedience founded on love, understanding and trust. Richard

Hi, I picked "other". I was raised LDS, but was cast out for sincere claim of the right of legitimate dissent in the church against the current leadership. I do not accept the Wooley or LeBaron claims to authority, but do accept the Second Book of Commandments. I am always respectful of other people's faith. Richard http://www.2bc.info/pdf/Nsustain.pdf some of my insights http://www.2bc.info/pdf/2bc-fi39.pdf early 2BC revelations http://www.2bc.info/pdf/PAC.pdf article on the subject of Priesthood authority