deseretgov
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Posts posted by deseretgov
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Obviously the 16 year old's feelings can't be dismissed. She's part of the family and her opinon counts. If I was in that situation I would probably wait until the 16 year old moves out or something. If she moves out she has her own household and no longer has a say in the operation of your household.
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I am still confused. A tolerant person is intollerant when it comes to principles but tolerant of people's weaknesses? How does a tollerant person tollorate intolerant people?
The Traveler
But if a person is truely tolerant then they must tolerate intolerance. If not they are not truely tolerant.
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Mhilette Angel
(Mee-let)
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Pictures finally.
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Oh, come to find out the story I mentioned is in the section heading of Section 61 of the Doctrine and Covenants
Section 61
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, on the bank of the Missouri River, McIlwaine’s Bend, August 12, 1831. HC 1: 202–205. On their return trip to Kirtland the Prophet and ten elders had traveled down the Missouri River in canoes. On the third day of the journey many dangers were experienced. Elder William W. Phelps, in daylight vision, saw the destroyer riding in power upon the face of the waters.
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Well if you study the Succession Crisis you can see that it really wasn't clear right after Joseph Smith died. Most of the church followed James Strang rather than Brigham Young.
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Well wasn't there also that story where I think it was Joseph Smith and some other people saw Satan riding on the water of the Mississippi?
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Yes that will be in an interesting time when Satan is loosed at the end of the millenium.
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Yes, I've added tolerence to my list of dirty words. It's sitting there alongside Democracy. I'm more than happy to say I'm a bigot against bad things.
I find it odd that tolerance only goes so far. We are told to be tolerant of homosexuals. But why aren't they being tolerant of our current views? Shouldn't we be tolerant with murderers too? Or are we just supposed to be tolerant to the degree that certain people can do what they want and not get told it's bad?
But a note on Pam's good tolerance. That should also be extended to sinners. Maybe a person(ourselves included) is taking a bit longer repenting and trying to be righteous than we would like.
I can't and wont condone behaviour that I feel to be wrong. But I will love the sinner. It's possible to love a person but to hate, reject, and condemn certain things they are doing. Afterall I'm a sinner too. I would expect people to still love me even though I do not always to right things.
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Just doing some research and I came across something interesting.
1 Nephi 7:6
6 And it came to pass that as we journeyed in the wilderness, behold Laman and Lemuel, and two of the daughters of Ishmael, and the two sons of Ishmael and their families, did rebel against us; yea, against me, Nephi, and Sam, and their father, Ishmael, and his wife, and his three other daughters.
Nephi then speaks against them and they bind him.
1 Nephi 7:19
19 And it came to pass that they were angry with me again, and sought to lay hands upon me; but behold, one of the daughters of Ishmael, yea, and also her mother, and one of the sons of Ishmael, did plead with my brethren, insomuch that they did soften their hearts; and they did cease striving to take away my life.
So in the first verse we see that it only talks about two of Ishmaels sons. And that they rebeled against the others. So what verse 19 says is that either:
- One of Ishmael's sons stayed neutral in the rebellion.
- One of the Sons of Ishmael changed his mind about rebelling after seeing what they did to Nephi.
- It was one of Ishmael's sons' son. Since verse 6 says Ishmael's sons already had families.
2 Nephi 5:6
6 Wherefore, it came to pass that I, Nephi, did take my family, and also Zoram and his family, and Sam, mine elder brother and his family, and Jacob and Joseph, my younger brethren, and also my sisters, and all those who would go with me. And all those who would go with me were those who believed in the warnings and the revelations of God; wherefore, they did hearken unto my words.
So we see here that Nephi actually had at least two sisters.
So my questions. How many children did Ishmael actually have? We know he had five daughters but did he have two or three sons?
Also who did Nephi's sisters marry? If he only had two sisters and Ishmael had three sons then only one could get married. Remember Ishmael's two sons were already married and had families by the time they left Jerusalem. Did Nephi's sisters marry Ishmael's grandchildren?
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It is impossible for us to be 100% obedient. What matters is our intent. Are we trying our best to follow God's commandments.
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That's a very good insight. Thank you! I will keep that in mind.
The reason I use the word "truth" is because I hear it a lot from religious people. Most faiths do claim to have "the truth". They also say that those who do not have their truth will not be "saved". Well, I want to be saved. I've heard a little bit about hell, and it doesn't sound like a place I'd want to go. That's why I'm concerned about making sure I have the right truth! It's a very confusing process, though, because "the right truth" is what everyone claims to have.
I think the real prolem with everyone claiming to have the "right truth" is associated with membership. Many churches want lots of peope to join them. So claiming to have the "right truth" is a good way to hook people into the church.
Is this what Mormons officially believe -- that they have the truth, and all others will be condemned? Or is it more like what you said -- that truth can be found through a variety of paths? If you could clarify your point, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
It's sort of both. The Mormon church recognizes that there is truth everywhere. Other religions have truth. But also the church claims to have the most truth. But the church also teaches that each person will be judged according to the knowledge they have. So that fits with what I said too.
For example we believe that a person who dies who never had a chance to hear the gospel will have the chance to after this life in the Spirit world. The Spirit world is sort of a waiting place where everyone who dies waits for the ressurection of all people before the final judgement.
A Catholic who didn't have the Gospel(what we call the fullness of the Gospel) will be judged acorrding to the amount of the gospel they have. So if you have a Mormon who has the fullness of the Gospel but ignores it and sins just for fun. But you have a Catholic who lives the best they can and tries to obey the commandments. The Catholic will most likely recieve a better reward than the Mormon.
So what really counts is what you do with what God has given you. If God has given you more then more is expected of you.Also we should always be looking for chances to learn more and find more ways to become better people. To me personally that means that if you can be a better person as a Bhuddist than you can as a Mormon then you should be Bhuddist.
I just read through everyone's posts again, and there's one more clarification I'd like to request. (I'm trying to read up on the LDS faith and other religious beliefs as well, but I'm not very knowledgeable on these subjects yet, so please forgive me if this is a dumb question.) If I read the book of Mormon and then pray about it, will I receive an answer from God telling me that it's the truth? That's what the information on these websites seems to imply, but I want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly. That's all I have to do? And will it work for me? Because I've never prayed before and I don't know how.
Well it's not just as simple as reading and praying. Here's the verses at the end of the Book of Mormon that tell us about it:
Moroni 10:3-5(Emphasis added)
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
So there is more than just reaing and praying. It involves:
Reading
Pondering(aka studying and thinking about it)
Pray and ask if it is true.
You will need to have the proper attitude when praying:
Have a sincere heart - This means you really believe in what you are doing.
Have real intent - This means you are really trying to find an answer. You not just trying to disprove it. Like if you said, "There I prayed about it, it's not true."
Have faith in Christ
if you do those things then God will give you an answer by the power of the Holy Ghost. So it's not a simple process. It will take a while to study and pray. It's not just one prayer. It has to be something that you would pray for the rest of your life if that is what it would take to get an answer.
I'm sure others can offer more insight.
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Also the Hill Cummorah, 1 million people dying in a battle, that is almost equivalent to taking all the people in the Salt Lake Valley and having them pass away on one relatively small hill and their not being one piece of evidence later. This is impossible. How could it be?
I thought the battle was around Hill Cumorah not on it.
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Hi everyone. I have already posted a little bit about myself in the intro section, but in case some of you didn’t read it, I will say it again here (briefly). I grew up with no religion, but now I am curious to learn more about peoples’ beliefs. I want to know the truth! Will you guys please help me out by answering some quick questions?
Welcome. If you are looking for truth I promise you that you will find it in a lot of places. No religion has a cornered market on truth. They all have some. I don't think you will find any religion that has 100% truth. I believe that God has given his word in a variety of ways to a variety of people in a way that is best for those people. If God gave us the 100% truth our tiny mortal brains would explode. He gives us simplified versions of truth so that we can understand.
Doctrine and Covenants 98:12
12 For he will give unto the faithful line upon line, precept upon precept; and I will try you and prove you herewith.
Also see the parable of the Talents. The master didn't give all three of his servants the same amount. But the two servants who took the different amounts they had and multiplied them both recieved the rewards. The servant who buried his talent lost everything.
He need to take what truth God gives us and improve ourselves with it. It doesn't matter if you have everything. So I suggest that you find whatever religion/path helps you come closer to God and use that one to improve your relationship with God. If down the road you find another religion that helps you better take that one. There is no shame in changing religions. We should rejoice when someone finds a better path that helps them to come closer to God.
1.) Do you ever doubt the truthfulness of the Mormon/LDS religion? In other words, how strong is your faith?
a.) If you DO sometimes doubt Mormonism, what helps you overcome that doubt?
b.) If you DO NOT ever doubt Mormonism, why is that, and what do you think would cause you to doubt (if anything)?
Yes I do sometimes doubt. It's a good thing for me. It keeps me asking questions. And that helps me to learn more and educate myself better. And while studying the truth you can feel the Holy Spirit. Studying the gospel and wroking to apply it in my life helps me come closer to God.
2.) Do you believe that God communicates with you? Why or why not?
Yes I believe He does. I know He has guided me in certain decisions in my life. Especially in choosing my wife. That was something I KNOW that God had a hand in. Nothing could cause me to doubt that experience.
3.) Would you be willing to share any personal testimonies of your experiences with God (like answered prayer, witnessing a miracle, etc)? I’ve never had a supernatural experience, so I would love to read about what it’s like.
As a missionary in the Philippines my companion and I fasted that we could find people to teach. Later that day we were walking in a part of the town we had never been before. Frrom a distance we heard a woman shouting, "Hey, Elders." Missionaries are commonly refered to as 'Elders' by church members. We thought it was weird. We approached her and asked her why she called us elders. She said she hadn't. Any way we talked and the teaching of three people resulted from that contact.
As I mentioned above. When I was still a missionary I was at the branch meeting house. We were waiting for church to start and standing around outside. I was talking to a young child and I looked up and saw a woman by the door of the building. I had never seem here before. However as soon as I saw her I heard the words in my mind as clear as anyone talking to me, "She's the one." Now I wasn't looking for a wife at that time. I approached her and asked who she was. She was actually from a city a little but away and was in the leadership that included our area. We talked for a bit and then church started. I saw her occasionally during the rest of my mission. But I didn't flirt with her or anything(flirting/courting/dating are not allowed for missionaries). But just before I left for home a member approached me and gave me the girl's phone number. I called her a few months after getting home. Add three years and we got married. At the time I wasn't sure what, "She's the one," meant. It seemed impossible at the time that she was the woman I was going to marry.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read my post. And to all of you who reply, I thank you in advance.
Sincerely,
Seeker
No problem. It was fun. I hope my post was helpful.
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Hello. Our tiny branch on Malta is currently being challenged by the language question.
English and Maltese are joint native languages here. English is taught in schools and very few Maltese have no English. Conversations are often conducted in both languages simultaneously.
YET..... we are all (even us English only speakers), being asked to use the Maltese language in branch meetings. Even though 99% of those present have fluent English. And the fact that the standard works are not available in Maltese.
We are being told that the Church policy is that native peoples are to be encouraged to use their own native languages.
Does anyone have any insight of the direction/doctrine for this? We need delivering from this divisive policy that is threatening to wreck this tiny branch
There is a very similar situation in the Philippines. Most members can speak English. In my mission they could speak Tagalog the National Languagae and Ilokano the local dialect. I never noticed anyone really encouraging them to use Tagalog but it was often used with teaching materials and things like that. Hymns were sung in English though.
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He turned into Michael221?
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After all, the Book of Zelph has already been published. Go figure.
True. Even the government cannot cover up the truth that is contained in the Book of Zelph!
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I think Zelph is a really interesting figure. It's also interesting that the government keeps the exact location of the mound, where Zelph was found, a secret.
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Here's something interesting I found.
An article titled "History of Joseph Smith, "in the Mormon newspaper Millennial Star, published in England, had the following to say about the ancient City of Manti (as in the Book of Mormon):
The camp passed through Huntsville, in Randolph County [Missouri], which has been appointed as one of the Stakes of Zion, and is the ancient site of the City of Manti.... [sept. 1838] (The Latter-day Saints' Millennial Star, "History of Joseph Smith," Vol. 16, page 296, May 13, 1854)
Also a study of Zelph might prove insightful into Book of Mormon Geography.
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...that you as a mormon need to do something to help Him to get you some pass into heaven. I think you are going to be really surprised some day.
What's the worst that is going to happen? After all you said all we need to do is believe. So the worst than can happen is Christ will tell us we didn't need to do all that extra stuff. We'll still make it into heaven, according to you.
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I notice that he didn't answer my, 'So... Wait... Which of the qualities are you referring to that Satan doesn't fulfill?' question.
Yeah. Isn't it awesome Satan will be saved too!
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Well I've had great fun sinning! Good thing antsyl showed up and showed me the error of following Christ. I guess it took a real believer in Christ to show me the error of my ways. I don't really have to follow Christ. I just have to believe in Him. Life is SO much easier now!
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Truth is you simply dont believe Christ is who he says he is.
Plain and simple
So if a person really believes in Christ then they will do certain thing because they are the natural result of a true belief?
Or were you specifically refering to Gatorman?
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First, There is no test. What was done on that hill two thousand years ago was sufficient.
If you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that He died for your sins and is now at the right hand of God then you will be saved. The Gospel is true. Christ died a substitutionary death for you. He paid the price. Just believe He is who he says He is and accept the Free Gift He offers. Salvation! From then on when God looks at you he sees Christ's purity. Your sins are forgiven. Its not that you should go on sinning but you are saved.
There is no TEST the WORK is done. Christ said on the cross, "it is finished" Paid in full.
I never said that it wasn't done. Christ fulfilled His part. Now it is up to me. That is the test. The test isn't to see if Christ will save me. The test is to see if I will do what I need to in order to accept Christ's gift. Christ offers the gift of salvation to all who are willing to take it. My test is to take it or take what the world offers.
You said:
If you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that He died for your sins and is now at the right hand of God then you will be saved.
So I'm going to believe what you told me. I want to make a public announcement that I believe the Christ is the Son of God, that He died for my sins and is now at the right hand of God.
So now no matter what I do I will be saved. I hope so, because now I'm going to go commit adultery. I might murder someone on the way home from work too. Come to think of it, I'm going to join a Satanist church.
Thank you for telling me the truth and relieving me of the burden of doing my best to follow God's commandments. It was getting really annoying. I wonder how many major sins I can commit before the day is out. Good thing I'm saved.
Tolerance
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
That to me is the contradiction of tolerance. It gives no room for having an acceptable standard of behaviour. Because to be really tolerant you can't pick and choose what you tolerate.