Saguaro
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Posts posted by Saguaro
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Here's a podcast with Greg Kearney, he's a Mormon and a Mason, it's very interesting. It's episode number 005 on the list.
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I think it's kind of funny that a couple of people mentioned phones lines being an issue becuase they're not secure. Reminds me of a low budget spy movie or something. I can see it now, the Elder's Quroum president is conducting a presidency meeting from his home by phone as a unmarked windowless black van slowly rolls down the street with guys sitting in the back at high tech computer consoles trying hone in on the EQPs wireless phone signal trying to find out why Bro Smith isn't doing his home teaching or hoping to confirm the rumor that Bro Jones hernia operation was actually a vasectomy.
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This is a tough one. Personally, I wish civil weddings would be allowed the same day as sealings.
The argument that a civil wedding would diminish the sacredness and importance of a temple wedding just doesn't hold water with me, especially if you consider than in many countries outside of North America it's the law that couples must be married civilly before a religious ceremony. Ask anyone from Spain, the UK, or Mexico if they think their temple sealing was less important or somehow degraded because of their civil ceremony, I doubt they will think so.
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Over the weekend I was called by the Stake President to a big calling. He made it very clear that my wife and family comes first, then my job so I can support my family, and then my calling comes next. He said if you have to choose between going to a church meeting or going to a kid's music recital, you pick your family over the meeting.
That doesn't mean you neglect your calling and spend all your time with your family, there has to be some balancing going on, but the time spent with the family has to be quality time, and any special family events should always take precedence.
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If we listened to Joseph Smith, it is over 2 billion years old and built from myriads of inert fragmented worlds.
Source please? I've never heard that idea attributed to JS.
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Sounds very suspicious. If it's news in Canada can you provide a source? Link to a news article?
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I think some Utahn's do have a distinct accent. I grew up in Utah and have lived in Arizona for some time, and I can tell when I hear a native Utahn speak. As a recent example, on the radio here they had audio of a lady in N. Utah describing the recent earthquake, and she totally sounded like a Utahn.
I'm not sure if Arizonans have a distinct accent, maybe in some rural areas, but in the metro areas like Pheonix you have to look hard to find a native Arizonan, most people are transplants, a lot from the midwest.
I served my misison in Spain, and members there claimed they could pick out Utah missionaries just by their accent.
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I personally can't stand the man; I would find it hard to be civil to him no matter where we met, even in the Temple.
I think you need to read this: The Mormon Ethic of Civility - LDS Newsroom
and this: Elder Quentin L. Cook: 'We follow Jesus Christ' | Deseret News
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Also remember that the manuals are a guide. Just because a quote is in a lesson outline doesn't mean that you have to share it when you teach. And unless anyone is reading the manual as you teach your lesson, no one will be the wiser that a quote was left out.
Funny you should mention that, our YW president was complaining to my wife recently that one of the girls brought her ipod touch to class and was following along in the lesson and kept pointing out things she was missing.
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MOE, thanks for the background on the manuals. I wasn't aware of the supplemental resource guide, that's good to know. While I'm sure the guide helps add newer material to the lessons, it doesn't do anything about the old dated stuff.
I agree that it costs a lot of money to produce new manuals, but if these were approved in 1992 that makes them nearly 20 years old, yet we've had a new manual in RS/PH for nearly each of the last 10 years. I've heard the YW manuals are equally dated. It seems to be an issue of priority, and unforuantely the youth of our church are not being given a very high priority. But I'll remain optimistic and hope there are new manuals in the works.
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A little more information would be helpful - pretty please?
Here's the quote: “We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question” (“Marriage and Divorce,” in 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1977], p. 144)."
You can find it here: LDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - Choosing an Eternal Companion
In my opinion the quote is dated and should be removed from the lesson manual. If I was giving this lesson I would skip over it. It's from 1976, before the priesthood ban on blacks was lifted. One could argue it's just good advice, but when a prophet says something is "preferred" it carries a lot of weight.
You can teach principles such as compatability and harmony in a relationshiop without playing the race card.
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so does the church have a policy regarding donating your body to science.... or just some parts of it? organ donation?
is embalming a legal issue, are you required to be embalmed if you want to be buried?
Organ donation is encouraged. The CHI states, "The donation or organs and tissues is a selfless act that often results in great benefit to individuals with medical conditions."
I don't have an answer regarding embalming.
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when i was younger i always thought it had something to do with the desecration of a "temple".... then when i learned endowed members were supposed to be dressed in their temple clothes i thought it had to do with that.
now i understand it better and realize the embalming process isn't exactly pretty. go figure.
To me cremation seems like a clean and efficient way to dispose of one's remains. Embalming only puts off the inevitable, which is the slow process of decomposition. Allowing a body to slowly decompose and putrify in the ground, though natural, seems more desecrating to our "temple" than quickly burning it up. I'm currently reading "Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers" by Mary Roach, though it focuses on cadavers, there are a couple of chapters about how we as a society deal with death, bodies, and burial, it's a fascinating read about a subject we don't normally discuss around the water cooler.
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Me neither. I'm kinda mildly curious why the policy is the way it is.
I think it's purely cultural. If the church had started in India instead of the United States cremation would be the normally accepted practice.
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The CHI says, "Normally, cremation is not encouraged. However, in some countries the law requires it. The family of the deceased must decide whether to cremate the body, taking into acccount any laws governing burial or cremation."
I know of no doctrinal reason to discourage cremation. It seems that cremation is becoming more common as burial costs keep going up.
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Have you been here?
There are some articles and essays under "Additional Support Resources" that may interest you, there is also a forum where you can discuss your issues with others who have been or are in the same boat as you.
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Check out this article:
LDS.org July 2009 Ensign - The Joseph Smith Papers: The Manuscript Revelation Books
It discusses the revelation process and changes and corrections that were made, specifically to the Book of Commandments and the Doctrine and Covenants.
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This quote is currently in the Aaronic Priesthood Manual 3. IMHO, those manuals along with the YW manuals desperately need to be updated, they can start by throwing this quote out the window.
“We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question” (“Marriage and Divorce,” in 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1977], p. 144).
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I'm amazed that some of you guys plan on sitting down with potential fiances of your children and basically have a priesthood worthiness interview with them. In my opinion the only person that has the right to do that is their priesthood leader. If my father-in-law had done such a thing I would have been horrified, not because I had anything to hide but because I don't think it's any of his business. His daugher chose me, I chose her, end of story.
As a father of three I try to teach my kids good principles, I try to be a good example, and I will try to steer them toward good, worthy, potential mates. But I have to have faith that I have taught them well, and I have to have faith in my kids that they'll make good decisions, but I cannot pick their spouses for them. Do I want them dating drug dealers? Of course not. But if my daugher finds a good man that loves her, will take care of her, lives his life the best he can, but didn't serve a mission, I won't hold it against him.
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Gregory Prince mentions it in his book on Pres McKay. His grandmother was Pres McKay's personal secretary and made copious journals.
Great book, I highly recommend it. David O McKay called the ban a 'policy' rather than doctrine, but he still felt that he needed a revelation to overturn it. According to the book he prayed for permission to lift the ban but did not receive it.
Not to be nit picky, but i don't think Gregory Prince was related to Clare Middlemiss, McKay's secretary, I believe she was an Aunt to Robert Wright, the co-author of the book, and she left him her extensive collection of journals and scrapbooks she collected over her many years of service to McKay. (IIRC, she was the only female secretary to a president of the church.)
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The system of polygamy worked well for it’s time and circumstance when there were many more women than men in the wilderness of Utah even though it started earlier.
The idea that there were more women than men is a false justification for polygamy.
Apostle John A Widstoe said:
“Plural marriage has been a subject of wide and frequent comment. Members of the Church unfamiliar with its history, and many non-members, have set up fallacious reasons for the origin of this system of marriage among the Latter-day Saints.
The most common of these conjectures is that the Church, through plural marriage, sought to provide husbands for its large surplus of female members. The implied assumption in this theory, that there have been more female than male members in the Church, is not supported by existing evidence. On the contrary, there seem always to have been more males than females in the Church...
The United States census records from 1850 to 1940, and all available Church records, uniformly show a preponderance of males in Utah, and in the Church. Indeed, the excess in Utah has usually been larger than for the whole United States, as would be expected in a pioneer state. The births within the Church obey the usual population law - a slight excess of males...
The theory that plural marriage was a consequence of a surplus of female Church members fails from lack of evidence...
The principle of plural marriage came by revelation from the Lord. That is the reason why the Church practiced it.” (Widtsoe, John A., “Evidences And Reconciliation”, pgs 307 – 310, The Bookcraft Company, 1943, Salt Lake City, Utah)
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Still not something we believe.
What don't we believe? It's historical fact that the church acknowledges.
Polygamy (Plual Marraige) - LDS.org
Here's a quote from the above link: "After God revealed the doctrine of plural marriage to Joseph Smith in 1831 and commanded him to live it, the Prophet, over a period of years, cautiously taught the doctrine to some close associates. Eventually, he and a small number of Church leaders entered into plural marriages in the early years of the Church."
I'm sorry if this is new to you or you find it disturbing, but it is a fact that Joseph Smith practiced plural marriage, and we gain nothing by denying or avoiding our own history. Of course the church discontinued the practice of plural marriage over 100 years ago.
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Interesting site. Now how does that work with the women still being married to their first husbands since women can't be polygamist? Or did I miss something major?
I'm no expert, but I believe when a woman is married to more than one man it is called polyandry.
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Can you provide references? I had heard this as well but I never went through the trouble to verify it.
Perhaps you didn't see the link to the website, here it is again:
There are many references on the front page of this website under Bilbliography, including the Church's own familysearch.org (look up Joseph Smith, you can see him married/sealed to multiple women in his lifetime), as well as books including Compton's "In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith". And at the bottom of the list of wives there's a link called "References" which lists each wife and corresponding references.
Question on worthiness.
in Advice Board
Posted
Wrong, you are never unworthy to receive the guidance of the spirit, you have the gift of the holy ghost. If she is the right one for you then the spirit will confirm it. I agree with the others that you should talk to your Bishop. If you do get married it may be better to get married sooner than later, you may not be able to get married in the temple right away, but you both can work on that together.