jasper_21

i don't think it insult you. "did i say that you are a false christian?"

Scriptural misinterpretation. Dear friends, we will analyze the verse according to what the author pertaining about. Your interpretation is out of context and not in accordance to what the bible is written about. Jude 1:3 (New International Version) 3Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. In jude 1:3 the author remind us to defend or contend the faith that was entrusted to the saints. The word "once" in verse 3 indicated that the true faith was already presented to the believer or the saints. meaning the author remind us not to be deceived by some one who teach not in accordance to the principle of gods, those who promote immorality and deny our lord jesus christ (as we read continuously in verse 4) there was a different issue in verse 5 5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. in verse 5 the author reminds us about his grace in israel because the lord delivered his people out of egypt. but again they destroyed because they did not believe god. in verse 3 the word "once" is pertaining to the saint to received the gospel of christ while in verse 5 the word later or formerly pertains to israel. In book of jude the christian must hold the true teaching in order for us that their salvation will not lost. the book illustrate on the happening to israel despite god choose the nation israel as his nation still israel refuse to follow the commandments of the lord and commit idolatry and immorality that why god curse israel. The application of this to christianity is we must be walk in accordance to the true gospel of christ. in that particular verse, did jesus say that "ALL WAS DECEIVED"? kindly answer me straight to the point. 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3 (New International Version) 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. Another scriptural misinterpretation, i discuss it already in my previous thread kindly check my previous post. In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 it talks about on what will happen on tribulation period before the coming of christ. we correlate that verse not in our own personal opinion but in bible also. we used rev 20 to prove that it is true interpretation, because in tribulation period satan will be permitted to deceived people and after 1000 years those who deceived will torment to hell. Even in that particular verse it did not say that "ALL" man rebelled. did you see it also? 1 Timothy 4:1-3 (New International Version) 1 Timothy 4 Instructions to Timothy 1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. in that particular verse did "ALL PEOPLE abandon the faith" Again you are wrong again. It did not say that ALL ABANDON but rather SOME ONLY meaning not all people abandon faith. another scriptural misinterpretation here it up Acts 20:29-30 (New International Version) 29I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. In that particular verse did it say that "ALL THE MEMBER OF THE FLOCK WAS DECEIVED BY THE SAVAGE WOLVES"? kindly answer me. another sciprtural misinterpretation John 16:2-3 (New International Version) 2They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. in that verse did jesus said that "ALL SAINTS OR BELIEVER WILL KILLED" although in that particular verse there was a christian persecution but it did not say that all christian will be killed. another scriptural misinterpretation here again 2 Peter 2:1-3 (New International Version) 2 Peter 2 False Teachers and Their Destruction 1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. Did the author said that "ALL WILL FOLLOW THEIR SHAMEFUL WAY"? when you said the word many it does not mean all but rather some only. for example Many of my High School Classmate are doctor. did all my high school classmate is a doctor.

The point is you admit that there was several passages in the bible in order for you to prove that there will be a TOTAL APOSTASY happend. That was your claim but until now why did you not site any biblical verse to support your claim. and why did you ignore my question that 1) DId Jesus Predict or foresaw that there will be a TOTAL APOSTASY happend? If yes give me a verse in the bible. 2) Did Apostle also foresaw that TOTAL APOSTASY will happend after their death? If yes kindly gave me a specific verse. Dear Friends, until now you did not site any biblical verse despite that you admit that there was several passages in the bible to support your claim. We reject that particular teaching because Christ and even apostle never taught that there will be a TOTAL APOSTASY happen in a church. The apostasy will be done by a some of the members only who will turn away from faith because of the hearsay teaching. The bible did not mention that there will be a TOTAL APOSTASY. Because dear friend if i will listen to your doctrine i will call jesus a liar because he said that his church will never overcome the power of death so meaning it is impossible for us to conclude that the church established by church will undergo temporary dissolved. The TOTAL APOSTASY teaching is only your own dogma. meaning you formulate the teaching which are not the actual teaching of the holy scripture. Dear friend, give me a specific verse in the bible that said that we do not have all words of jesus christ and the word of the apostle? Again, this is the 5th time that you post irrelevant issue. because the topic here is all about the apostasy not the biblical canon:) We the true christian believe that the teaching and doctrines must based on the bible and i can prove it once you create a separate thread that will tackle that issue. i will not elaborate it because as i said in my previous post this was not a topic in this thread. No my dear friends, i'm sorry to say that your prophet was imprisoned not because of proclaiming the gospel of Christ but due to his unlawful act. He was killed by a mob because the mob want to demoralized the government and tell that the government is responsible for such killing. i can prove it according to history but it is not a real topic in this thread. create another thread and i will happy to discuss it.

Did Jesus Christ predict that there will be an total apostasy after the death of the apostle? Did Apostle foresaw through the prediction that there will be an apostasy? If you kindly gave me a single verse in the bible that stated the there will be a "TOTAL APOSTASY" then i considered that your doctrine is correct. Dear Friend, Jesus Christ and the Apostle said that some of the members are turning away from faith. It doesn't mean that all member of the church will turn away from faith and it doesn't mean that the church established by Christ was dissolved. Dear Friend, If i believe in your doctrine then we will considered that Jesus is a liar. Because Jesus guaranteed us that his church will not overcome the power of death meaning there was no temporary dissolved of the church. that's what i asking for. The biblical verse to support your claim that there will be a "TOTAL APOSTASY" because there friend the biblical verse stated that there was a turning of faith in the last day but some only will turn away from it and not all. Dear Friend, I can prove it that the bible is the receptacle of all truth. But friend, This is noit a topic in this thread. Again you are posting irrelevant rebuttal that leads us to irrelevant posting in this topic. Our topic here is all about apostasy meaning you must prove that there will be a TOTAL APOSTASY that will happend after the death of the apostle. Dear Friend, Instead of giving me an irrelevant argumentation, kindly give me one of the prophecy in the bible that the apostle and christ predict that there will be a total apostasy. Because dear friend, If you claim that the book of mormons is true then it must have a doctrinal consistency within the bible. if the book of mormons as well as the bible will contradict each other then we will say that the book of mormons is not inspired word of god. Dear Friend, We believe that the bible (holy scripture) is inspired word of god according to 2 tim 3:15-16. but dear friend i will not elaborate furthermore about this verse because it is not really our topic in this discussion, Dear Friend, again i can answer you in that argumentation but it is not a topic of this thread, Again i will tell you that your rebuttal is irrelevant to this topic. I ask you, Did Jesus Christ predict that there will be an total apostasy happend during the dark age or after the death of the apostle? And did apostle predict also that there will be an apostasy? I need a biblical verse not irrelevant posting. If you want to discuss with me about the doctrine should be in the bible then you must create a separate thread and i will be happy to discuss it with you. I did not say that i cannot answer your rebuttal about "does the bible teach that the doctrine should be in the bible" but rather i request you to open a separate thread because this issue is all about apostasy not about bible. You said to me that i insult everybody here in the forum. butin your own word who insult people. I'll leave it up to you. Again, you must become mature in this particular discussion and you must answer a rebuttal relevantly. If you want to discuss about the doctrine should be in the bible then create another thread because the true topic in this discussion will be lost God Bless and be mature:)

dear brother the topic here is all about apostasy not about the bible. if you want to discuss it kindly give me a separate thread and webpage link and i will happy to discuss it with you. i hope you must follow this topic god bless

dear brother the topic in this thread was all about apostacy not authority, Again you gave another irrelevant argumentation. If you like to discuss about authority kindly give me a separate thread and link and i will happy to discuss it. I want a uniform discussion. This topic is all about apostasy not about biblical authority meaning 1) In Apostasy you must prove that the church established by christ was dissolved after the death of the apostle 2) In Apostasy you must prove that all members of the church was turn away from faith according to the bible It is different from Authority Issue 1) In Authority i will prove that i get authority from scripture alone see the differences and you'll notice the irrelevant posting that you have. dear brother kindly stick to the issue. don't divert the issue in another issue because it was a merely indication that you cannot response my rebuttal correctly, i hope you can follow this topic god bless:)

no my dear brother im here not to criticize anyone of you but to proclaim the truthfulness about the church being established by christ i'm sorry if that was your own personal interpretation on what i've said:(

No my dear brother. this is not my own opinion rather what i been posted is based upon the teaching of christ that the church will not overcome the power of death and hades. we hold that particular teaching. we all know that there was an apostasy happen but it was not pertains to the church and authority of the people. because 1) why there was a sacred writings available during apostolic era. 2) why there was several christian martyr died during the dark ages or the time when roman catholicism emerge? 3) why the gospel reformation did not stopped by the roman catholic authority? 4) if you claim that joseph smith is the authority will you kindly give me a specific verse in the bible to support your claim that smith will be given an authority to proclaim a gospel? if none, give me at least one prophetic verse in the bible that will prove that joseph smith will be the one who will restore gospel? Dear brother our source of authority is the holy scripture although the man are responsible for writing it but it was guided by the holy spirit. Holy Scripture or Bible is the inspired word of god. Our authority and basis for doctrinal teaching and faith are purely based on the bible. not written in the bible means your own personal hearsay, My dear brother, the bible did not say that "all members" or simply "the church that christ established" will be in apostasy but rather it was clearly stated that the church will not overcome the power of death, Dear brother, the scripture clearly taught us the proper way on how to achieve salvation. It was through the faith of our lord jesus christ. anyone can share a gospel to christ there was no restriction because we live not in accordance to the law but we live according to faith in our lord jesus christ. History is not complete my dear brother, although there was an presecution happen during the time of the apostol and after the death of apostle but still there were some of the christian still have a faith in our lord god and christ. you cannot say it unless you were born during that period. You have an ancestral right? Is the name of your ancestral was written in the history? the birthday and even socio cultural background of your ancestral is written in the history? My dear friend the bible is silence about the total apostasy. the bible did not mention that church will dissolve or all the members will turn away their faith. so meaning your teaching regarding the total apostasy was not based on the bible but your own personal opinion. Can you give any verse in the bible that christian will fell into apostasy? give me at least one. because your claim is not biblical because christ said that church will not fall. in your doctrine you mean that christ teach wrong and he is a liar. dear friend the truth of the gospel is that we must have faith in our lord jesus christ. because we have justified through faith. we are not dealing with the doctrine because apostle original gospel proclaim that we must have faith in our lord jesus christ in order for us to be save, in the history the christian martyr teach the truthfulness of the gospel of christ. roman empire and even catholicism condemn it because they know that their additional teaching is not based on the original gospel of christ.

your question is irrelevant to this topic. i can answer your question but first you create another thread that will discuss your question so that this thread will not be posted irrelevantly thank you for the question and god bless:)

i believe that there was an apostasy happend but it is not to the church that christ was establish rather the apostasy was turning away from faith will be done by the members of church, the member received a gospel but unfortunately turn away their faith because they deceive by satan. Not all the member of the church will turn away from faith but rather the bible said "some" only meaning not all will turn away their faith. i don't believe that the church will be dissolved because if i listen to your doctrine you will say that jesus is a liar and he teach in contradiction. why did i say that? because jesus clearly teach apostle peter that the church will not overcome the power of death and hades. meaning as long as the world exist the church will not dissolved. as a matter of fact, before the birth of Joseph Smith there was a evangelization of gospel thru the effort of some earliest reformist such as Martin Luther and John Calvin. even William Tyndale translate bible to english language so that many people can read the gospel of christ. never in the history of the christian church clearly stated that the christian people and the church was lost. as a matter of fact during the apostolic era or when the roman catholic church emerge there was several christian martyr died because of proclaiming the gospel of christ.

brother dorsay just read rev 20 and you will see my point that the one talking in 2 Thessalonian 2:1-3 is pertaining to tribulation period and not about apostasy. no there was no famine in the gospel beside jesus said that the world is past away but his word will never past away. actually the preaching of the gospel spread in the entire world which start from Jerusalem, Rome, Antioch and to the part of the world. we believe that the gospel did not stop after the death of the apostol actually there was several christian martyr in the church history that spread the gospel of christ during the apostolic era. if you want to name it just request me and i will prove it according to the history. no no no tribulation period is different to apostasy. apostasy is turning away from faith but you cannot site any biblical verse that "ALL HAVE TURN AWAY FROM FAITH" rather it only said that "some have turn away" although there was apostasy happen but not all christian have turn away faith. in matthew 16:18 jesus gave to peter a key of heaven and promise that on this rock jesus will build a church and the power of death and hades shall not overcome it. meaning in that particular context it is a mere indication that church that christ established was not dissolved temporarily but rather it remains forever as long as the world is existing the church of christ was not be dissolved and it remain forever. In tribulation period satan will allow to deceive people for a period of 1000 years and those who deceive by satan will torment to hell. in tribulation not all people will deceive by satan.

brother dorsay did not understand my question. i ask what particular verse in the bible that contains a prophecy that there will be an apostacy happend? he use 2 thesalonians 2:1-3 but he misinterpret the verse

scriptural misinterpretation. in 2 Thessalonian 2:1-3 it talks about on what will happen to man during the tribulation period. the Tribulation is a relatively short period of time where people who follow God will experience worldwide persecution and be purified and strengthened by it. The Tribulation is generally thought to occur before the Second Coming of Jesus and the end of the world. It is not occur after the death of the apostle. Tribulation period will happen:) during the millennial time. Also to discuss it very well in verse 4 you will read the activity of Satan during the tribulation period. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 (New International Version) 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thessalonian 2:1-4 is a futuristic prophecy that will happen a few years from now before the coming of Jesus. It pertains to millennial time. because before the judgment day Satan will release from prison and will allow to deceive people for a period of 1000 years. and after 1000 years those who deceive by Satan will torment to hell. This is the correlative verse of 2 thessalonians 2:4 “1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.” Revelation 20:1-3 At the end of the 1,000 years Satan will be released from the bottomless pit for a short time. He will gather the wicked together and they will fight against God and His people. God will bring fire down from heaven to destroy the wicked. Satan will be cast into the lake of fire. He will never again tempt any person. “7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” Revelation 20:7-10 note all people will deceive by satan. I hope dear friends that you understand my position regarding the verse that you posted. You may choose not to believe it. But for me it is a true interpretation of the verse, god bless.:)

NO NO NO!!!! kindly give me a specific verse that support your claim that there will be an apostasy after the death of the apostle. your duty is to answer the cross examination. not to return my question. answer with a question is not a proper answer to my question. i need a biblical verse not your own imaginary story.

can you give any verse in the bible that there was an apostacy

what do u mean that we are born in sin? it is mean that we inherit sin

what particular verse in the bible that stated that 8 years old is an age of accountability? be sure to give an exact verse of the bible and it stated exactly that 8 years old is an age of accountability.