Jim108

Following is an official response by the Smithsonian and the National Geographic Society regarding the book of mormon. This is not to say the book of mormon is not true, but rather to say that the supporting science does not exist to support it. Maybe in the future science will be able to support the book. Responses to the Book of Mormon For years we have heard from the missionaries that the Smithsonian Institute and National Geographic have both corroborated the historicity of the Book of Mormon. I’ve been told by countless missionaries that all I had to do was contact them for the information so that is what I did via e-mail. The following are their responses to my inquiry. 9/10/2004 Dear Sir or Madam; I am looking for information from the Smithsonian Institute that will help me verify that you do/do not have anthropological evidence that there was a large civilization that supposedly existed in the Americas that the Book of Mormon claims. I've been told by countless people that your organization holds maps, etc of said finds. I've also been shown letters from you to other people that there is no such evidence of the Mormon Church. Any help you could provide me with would be greatly appreciated! Sincerely, Michelle Grim Life After Ministries 10/27/2004 Dear Michelle Grim: Thank you for contacting the National Geographic Society. The National Geographic Society has not examined the historical claims of the Book of Mormon. We know of no archaeological evidence that corroborates the ancient history of the Western Hemisphere as presented in the Book of Mormon, nor are we aware of empirical verification of the places named in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is clearly a work of great spiritual power; millions have read and revered its words, first published by Joseph Smith in 1830. Yet Smith’s narration is not generally taken as a scientific source for the history of the Americas. Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere’s past, and the Society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon. In fact, students of prehistoric America by and large conclude that the New World’s earliest inhabitants arrived from Asia via the Bering land bridge. (Lower sea levels during ice ages exposed the continental shelf beneath Bering Strait, allowing generations of ancient Siberians to migrate east.) National Geographic carried the article “Hunt for the First Americans” and the map supplement “The Dawn of Humans: Peopling of the Americas” in the December 2000 issue, perhaps on your library’s shelf. You might want to write the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History and ask for their latest statement on this topic. You can write the museum in care of P.O. Box 37012, Washington, D.C. 20013-7012. I hope this information proves helpful. Sincerely, Lisa Research Correspondence Dear Sir or Madam; I am looking for information from the Smithsonian Institue that will help me verify that you do/do not have anthropological evidence that there was a large civilization that supposedly existed in the Americas that the Book of Mormon claims. I've been told by countless people that your organization holds maps, etc of said finds. I've also been shown letters from you to other people that there is no such evidence of the Mormon Church. Any help you could provide me with would be greatly appreciated! Sincerely, Michelle Grim Life After Ministries This letter from the Smithsonian’s Department of Anthropology is in response to your inquiry regarding the Book of Mormon. The Smithsonian considers the Book of Mormon a religious document and not a scientific guide. The Smithsonian Institution has never used it in archaeological research and has found no archaeological evidence to support its claims. You might wish to consult the following publications: Coe, Michael D. and Rex Koontz. Mexico. 5th rev. and expanded ed. Thames & Hudson, 2002. (A well-written, authoritative summary of Mexican archeology.) Coe, Michael D. The Maya. 6th fully rev. ed. Thames & Hudson, 1999. (A general summary of the archeology of the Maya.) Coe, Michael D. and Richard A. Diehl. In the Land of the Olmecs. 2 vols. Univ. of Texas Press, 1980. Fagan, Brian. Ancient North America: The Archaeology of a Continent. 3nd ed. Thames & Hudson, 2000. Kingdoms of Gold, Kingdoms of Jade: The Americas Before Columbus. Thames & Hudson, 1991. Freidel, David, Linda Schele, and Joy Parker. Maya Cosmos: Three Thousand years on the Shaman’s Path. 1st Quill ed. William Morrow & Co., 1995. Hammond, Norman. Ancient Maya Civilization. Rutgers Univ. Press, 1982. Hunter, Milton R. and Thomas S. Ferguson. Ancient America and the Book of Mormon. Kolob Book Co., 1950. (The Mormon point of view is presented.) Jennings, Jesse D. Prehistory of North America. 2nd ed. McGraw Hill, 1989. Jennings, Jesse, editor. Vol. 1. Ancient North Americans. Vol. 2. Ancient South Americans. W. H. Freeman, 1983. Lamberg-Karlovsky, C. C. and Jeremy A. Sabloff. Ancient Civilizations; The Near East and Mesoamerica. 2nd ed. Waveland Press, 1995. (Chapter 4 discusses the first Mesoamerican civilization and its origin. Very readable.) Larson, Stan. Quest for the Gold Plates: Thomas Stuart Ferguson’s Archaeological Search for The Book of Mormon. Freethinker Press, 1996. Marcus, Joyce. Mesoamerican Writing Systems: Propaganda, Myth, and History in Four Ancient Civilizations. Princeton University Press, 1992. Papers of the New World Archaeological Foundation. Brigham Young University, 1952-. (Published results of archeological investigations in Mesoamerica by the Foundation, supported by the Mormon Church.) Riley, Carroll L. et al., editors. Man Across the Sea: Problems of Pre-Columbian Contacts. Univ. of Texas Press, 197l. (A collection of articles, mostly by well-qualified specialists, concerning transoceanic contacts.) Sabloff, Jeremy A. The New Archaeology and the Ancient Maya. Scientific American Library, 1994. Sabloff, Jeremy A. Cities of Ancient Mexico: Reconstructing a Lost World. Thames & Hudson, 1990. Schele, Linda, and David Freidel. A Forest of Kings: The Untold Story of the Ancient Maya. William Morrow & Co., 1992. Schele, Linda. The Inscription on Stela 5 and Its Altar. Copán Mosaics Project, 1987. Wauchope, Robert. Lost Tribes and Sunken Continents. Univ. of Chicago Press, 1974. (Chapter 4 covers Mormon theories, setting them in the context of other nonscientific schemes. Author is a well-qualified specialist on Mexican archeology.) Williams, Stephen. Fantastic Archaeology: The Wild Side of North American Prehistory. Univ. of Pennsylvania Press, 1991. (See the chapter "Archaeology and Religion: Where Angels Fear to Tread.") Thank you for your interest in the Smithsonian Institution. Department of Anthropology Smithsonian Institution 2004

Findings?, for findings all you need is to go to your local book stores. There you can find whole books with maps and pictures of artifacts supporting the book of mormon. For the most part, when they are scrutinized, they do not pass the acid test. It is these kinds of researchers that do harm to the book of mormon. This is not good for you. When the science of archeology is evenly applied and is supported and agreed apon by the mainstream acadamia with regards to the book of mormon it will be welcomed by the world. I support real science in the proof. It has to be real. IF THE BOOK OF MORMON IS TRUE THAN THE WHOLE WOLD NEEDS TO KNOW IT. I support you in finding out the truth.

I would like to see mainstream academia in archeology support the findings. To this date (as far as I know of) they do not. I would however, welcome evidence pro or con to the book of mormon. As you know I am not LDS, but if (to me) the book of mormon is true, the world needs to know.

God gave us free will to choose or not to choose. That is what makes it real. The glory is Gods.

Yes, God is just and hell is real.

".....most people were created for hell." Vort, you know that is not what I said. You tell me where I ever said people were created for hell. I would like to know your source. Let me say again. Most people in their lifetime will have been exposed numerous times with the details about salvation. Most of these people will for some reason reject Jesus. On the other hand, a few will accept Jesus into their heart, surrender themselves to Jesus and be saved. The road to salvation is difficult and narrow. The road to hell is easy and wide. Each lost soul is a tragedy. Let me be clear. If you die without having been born again, your name will not be in the book of life. You will be seperated from God and your destination is hell. Hell is a very real reality and hell is where most will go. People were not created to go there. They chose to go by not accepting Jesus. This is why we need to work as hard as we can to help our brothers and sisters to see the Light. Salvation is not automatic.

Bro Rudick, thank you for this post.

Don't worry about the details, JUST PRAY.

"Death is what will come upon all" Just thought I will throw this in. I think that maybe, the rapture is soon to be at hand. Then some of us will not die at all. Cool to think about. Sorry for getting off subject, please continue.

This has been a very good conversation. Lots of good input and learning going on here. Well done to all posters.

Just thought of something. When the LDS say they are saved, what are you being saved from?

Second death is damnation. As in "you are going to hell". This is the destiny for most I am very sad to say. To live with God we need to believe in the"blood of the lamb". Only the blood of Jesus can clean us to be worthy of God. None of us can do that alone.

They sin just like you and I do. It is all an abomination to God. Why must we give sin levels of severity. It is all sin. Black and white. A preacher man is no better than a whore and vice versa. We need to stop grading each other. We all need Jesus.

Saved from the second death. When you are saved your name is in the book of life. You are worthy to live with God. Not of your own accord because we can not achieve being worthy to God by our own works. We need the blood of the lamb. For those who have never knew the WORD of Jesus, there is another way. You can find it in Romans 8. It talks about the "law". Some scholars believe this scripture gives an explanation of how some can be saved without ever knowing the word. Food for thought.

To be saved we must believe in Jesus. (the blood of the lamb) However, we have free will, and most will not come to that conclusion.

Sin either is or is not. All is an abomination to God. The differnce here is the political correctness is telling them that it is normal and they live the life and never repent. I am sad for them. God loves them very much. We need to get them into the church so they can see what is true. I am glad the LDS accepts them into the service. It is a good thing to do. Thanks for your post

Folks, Jesus died for all sin. Homosexual sin is no different then our sins that we "think of as lesser", but are not. He took on the sin of the world, past, present and future. All are able to receive forgiveness. We must repent however. We must conform to what God has told us and not bend the word of God to fit our needs. We must change and repent and forgive. We must allow homosexuals into our churchs and to love them and to be TRUE to them. We let other sinners in. What makes their sin so much worse than our dirty laundry. Lets love each other and be TRUE to each other. God is very clear that acting out homosexual act is a sin. So let the sinners into the church. This is where they belong because Jesus loves them and us equally. Because you know what, they are a part of us.

I never knew that. Makes sense. Learn something new everyday.

WOW That is some kind of serious stuff. What if it was a lite beer?:lol: I know I am having fun here, but I do like my beer, sorry, but it is true:lol: Man I like these smilies

"This is where Christianity lost its faith" Hemidakota, would you describe yourself as being a member of Christianity. I have read many post of LDS members that say they are. .....and if you are, have you lost your faith? Please explain your position regarding this bold statement.

NOW THIS IS FUNNY!!! It gives me a good reason to watch the Simpsons. On a more serious note. What would happen if a member of LDS faith were to indulge in a cold beer or the like. What is the consequence? I have shared a pitcher or two with some who are in this boat. I will never divulge who!!

I like soda, but my weight does not. I like diet soda, but I don't feel good when I drink too many of them. I mostly drink water, coffee (black) and Earl Grey Tea. But, this is what I really need to talk to you about. I think it's time to get back (or in this case, visit for the first time) to the HIGH LIFE. When its time to relax....one beer stand clear. Beer after beer. ...and there is nothing like the taste of cold filtering with rocky mountain spring water. BEER...PROOF that GOD LOVES US!! ( I don't have the exact verse location for that, but I am looking for it....I am looking for it, it's got to be here somewhere) :lol: OK, just a little fun here. Please don't read anything into it more than just some fun. I respect your ways. Now, I could sure use a cold one. Maybe a silver bullet.

Very true!

".....The trouble is that there is a lot of social pressure out there telling us that homosexuality is a perfectly natural and normal sexual behavior " You are right. The sin is no worse, but if you do not repent and continue to live the life then you are in big trouble with God. I hope no one thinks of me as a hater of anyone. I love all my homosexual brothers and sisters, but God is very clear on this subject. Their beef is not with me.

Why should the homosexuals sin be any different than the sin we are guilty of. They are loved by God equally to us. We all need to repent, forigive and love each other. Believe in Jesus and repent.