aj4u

Change of subject: My avatar is my oil painting I did. I am an artist. Do you like it? oil on canvas 24 X 36

I didn't say obedience is not important. I am saying trusting your works of obedience to supplement God's (Jesus') death for your sins and shed blood is to fall from God's grace completely, and that where the problem lies. You cannot ignore Paul, and you're not showing a Biblical understanding of James as related to being saved by God 's grace through our faith that works by love!!!! I am speaking truth here that must be understood or salvation is not possible! Thus saith the Lord!!!

My understanding of the Bible is this: Faith is the substance of things hoped for and evidence of things not seen.Without faith we cannot please God. Those that come to God must believe He is and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. We overcome the wicked one by our faith. Our faith is what saves us through God's grace. Trusting in anything other than this will cause us to fall from God's grace and be judged by our works only that is Satan's diabolical plan.

It is not the first time I read parts of the BoM. I am just reading more than ever now. As you mentioned, "No one who has read the BoM the first time knows whether or not there was steel in the Americas 600 years ago. No one would know to ask that question." But form what you say, you knew it. Why did you fail to mention the anachronisms back when I brought up the subject in one of my threads that were closed? I am being given websites to answer the questions, but I am having to filter through lots of stuff that adds more questions. The name calling is not necessary and does not glorify God.

Yes, thank you I am looking at all the information. there is quite a bit so it takes me time to answer I am getting many websites to view. So at this time, I have no comment. I need to look at the material closely. I don't have evidence that God created the worlds; yet I believe it! Who maketh thee my judge?

I have plunged my myself into reading the BoM and find that it purports the rise and development of great civilizations. Places that were covered with buildings and people groups numerous as the sands of the ocean Mormon 1 In Nephi there is fine works of wood, iron, copper, and brass and even steel (I didn't know steel existed during does times) all manner of tools Jarom 1: 8 They spread over the face of the earth. There is also swords, cimeters, breastplates, arm shields head plates and many other such things that went along with these civilizations. Where can I find archeological and scientific proof of such places like there is proof for the Holy Bible of the places it mentions along with the artifacts?

WE=true followers of Christ Jesus of the Holy Bible.

It means to take in or drink of. It means making Jesus the center of your life. I mean letting Him be Lord of your life. It means being hid in Him and abiding in Him and Him in you. If these things are present, there is nothing else needed. A person can be in prison and never have an opportunity to be baptized from a physical perspective and He will be saved according to the Bible, but not according the BoM. Nephi says we are saved after all we can do. This strikes at the very heart of all Paul was for and against. Ephesians 2: 8, 9 For by grace are ye saved through faith and that is not of yourselves it is the gift of God NOT of works. This might sound redundant to you, but I don't see how you made it over that hump without being pushed. How can anyone earn or work for a gift? YOU Cannot. If we have to add anything to what Jesus has done to be saved other than our total faith in Him, we are fallen from God's grace and will be judged on whether we have been perfect in all our works. The silgthlest imperfection and we don't qualify for the smallest place in God's glory. I find that the Lord gently leads His sheep in the way they should go, but the devil pushes! I believe the devil wants to win this war by convincing believers that they have to earn or work for the gift of salvation or eternal life in Jesus.

I am not concerned about winning battles. I want to see Jesus get the reward of His suffering. It is the war that must be won! Jesus will be the victor and through Him, we are more than conquerors.

Obviously, the thief on the cross wasn't baptized before being saved by Jesus. I am not saying it isn't important to baptize, but I am seeing a complicated salvation message in the BoM than there is in the Bible. The BoM says we must have perfect faith to be saved. What is that? It also says if we have faith we must have hope. This doesn't make sense to me. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. If you have the faith, your in period. The BoM is making it sound like we need to have things that I cannot define and I get confused trying to understand the plan of salvation from its verses whereas, the Bible is simple and clear cut to me. Can you understand me on this?

BoM 34 And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned. 37 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and become as a little child, and be baptized in my name, or ye can in nowise receive these things. 38 And again I say unto you, ye must repent, and be baptized in my name, and become as a little child, or ye can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God. 40 And whoso shall declare more or less than this, and establish it for my doctrine, the same cometh of evil (3Nephi 11) 11 And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins. (Moroni 8) The BoM emphasizes baptism as an essential work for salvation and several other things, but the Bible doesn't. It also emphasizes any one adding or taking away from the gospel which is a part of the salvation message comes from evil, the Bible essentially states the same through Paul about a different gospel message. The Bible: 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. If baptism is an essential work for salvation why hasn't that been emphasized in the Holy Bible. It is not even mentioned once as being necessary for salvation, but calling on the name of the Lord is and believing in you heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and by faith through grace we are saved. It seems that the BOM states removing or adding anything from the salvation message comes from evil, but also the Bible states the same. These seem to pit me one vs the other.

I don't mind people trying to convert me. I never have and never will. I would like to be at a place in my life with God where I have no will of my own. The thought you shared is your thought not the Lord's.

Well, I am not sure what I see here. What bothers me is the BOM has hundreds or thousands of words from the KJV even some verbatim quotations to a significant length. Moroni 10 with 1 Corinthians 12:1-11 would be an example but not the only one. It appears Joseph Smith made use of the KJV Bible to go along with or supplement the mysterious revelation of the golden plates in question. Mormons will agree that Christ appeared on the American continent after His resurrection to preach to the Nephites right? The problem I have is He used the KJV or the language as recorded in that Bible. What checks out with me is when Nephi came to America he brought copies of Hebrew Scriptures, which explains for quotations from the OT. The problem, however, I would like for you to explain is the miracle plates some how or another end up under the translation of the King James English without variation about a thousand years before the 1611 version was written and many quotes that follow the translation errors in that text. This is one of many reasons I have trouble praying and asking God if this is true. It strains the limits of believability to the max for me, and I am honestly trying to understand why and how you can believe this. I can pray and ask God to show me how He sees this. If it is true, God can explain this and show me that the BOM is true. But I will not blindly and naively believe what any prophet or prophets tell me until they check out with Scripture. I would be begging for deception in my life and I have had my fill. I would think you'd feel the same way.

I'll see about the movie. Will the movie deal with this issue and how the original BOM was written in a KJV before the KJV came out in 1611.

I meant it the way Brigham Young said it. So is it possible that Joseph Smith will say no and Jesus says yes about our eternal destiny?