ConnieM
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Posts posted by ConnieM
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Satellite - Lena Meyer-Landrut
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Thank you all for your help, for sharing something personal or your experience. :)
There has been a huge discussion here, in Germany, in that ward about it and I feel the need to be more informed. My friend also is doing some research but we could not find any official church statement about intercultural or interracial marriage.
Thank you for the links!
@wingnut: it was indeed helpful! thank you.
@funky town: a very good quote, thank you :) I never heard about this site... it's not from the church, is it?
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Hello everybody.
I have a close friend who has been involved in a conversation about marriage last weekend where someone else told her that the church stated somewhere that one should marry someone from his or her own cultural background.
She asked me about it but I could not find anything about this in particular. Do you know any sources with a statement like this or have you heard talks or statements of members concerning intercultural marriage??
Thank you!!
Connie
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Hi there,
going to the military or serving a mission both is a big commitment. And both possibilities are quite tough. Make sure you're doing really good before you take a step like this.
And I think you should go and find new friends. Get to know people and try to build up relationships so that you have someone to stand by your side and lift you up. Everybody needs that. Especially in a time when you feel depressed or fight hard against addiction.
Take good care.
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Hello Celia,
did you already go VT yet?
I think VT is a great opportunity to get to know the sisters and bond with them. The message does not need to be a long part of the conversation but if you share your testimony with the sister you visit, I'm sure it's gonna be successful. :)
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ConnieM:
Two possibilities from the dictionary definition for Agency and how they may apply to the gospel:
1) As you correctly pointed out, Agency comes from the Latin meaning "to act". Its primary definition from the 1828 dictionary is, "The quality of moving or of exerting power; the state of being in action; action; operation; instrumentality; as, the agency of providence in the natural world." We can see this definition in the Book of Mormon where it talks about mankind being able to "act" for themselves. 2 Nephi 2:14 says that there are things that act (have agency in the primary sense) and things that are acted upon (do not have agency). D&C 93:30 also says that Intelligence, like Truth, can, "act for itself." Men are not passive beings, but active beings. We are expected to do things; to be, "anxiously engaged," (D&C 58:27).
2) The secondary definition from the 1828 dictionary is, "The office of an agent, or factor; business of an agent entrusted with the concerns of another; as, the principal pays the charges of agency." We see this secondary definition in the Book of Mormon as well. Two verses after Lehi talked about things which act (have primary agency), he says that the Lord gave unto man that he should, "act for himself," (twice in verse 2 Nephi 2:16, and once later in verse 26). The Doctrine and Covenants and the Book of Moses both talk about men being, "agents unto themselves." The idea of acting for oneself or being an agent unto oneself might be using the secondary meaning of Agency (the office held by an agent who legally acts for, or represents, another). If men are agents "unto themselves", then they would legally act for or represent themselves. They would be their own agents, and as such, would be legally bound by their actions, and therefore, accountable. The law of agency in this sense would become the foundational principle upon which our accountability rests.
The idea of, "freedom of choice," etc. for the meaning of agency that is commonly used in the church comes from the traditional definition of, "free agency," which is a specific type of agency. "Free agency" is a correct principle, but it is not what the Lord actually said in our scriptures. Even though the church is trying to stop the use of the term, "free agency," its meaning is still being applied to Agency rather than using the dictionary's definition.
Thank you. This helps to clarify the term. Translation is such a difficult thing... I mean, I cannot find a good translation for agency into German. Perhaps that's why they stick to the term "Entscheidungsfreiheit"?
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Here's something just for ConnieM:
In the German translation of the Doctrine and Covenants and the Book of Moses, the word "agency" was translated as "entscheidungsfreiheit" (freedom of choice) in one place and "selbständigkeit" (independence) in four other places. But in the English dictionary the definition for the word Agency has nothing to do with independence or freedom or choice/choose.
You're right. It gives me only German words that would not have anything to do with free agency as mentioned in the scriptures.
When I looked up "Agency" in a dictionary this is the result:
1. (noun) agency, federal agency, government agency, bureau, office, authority
an administrative unit of government
2. (noun) agency
a business that serves other businesses
3. (noun) agency
the state of being in action or exerting power
4. (noun) representation, delegacy, agency
the state of serving as an official and authorized delegate or agent
5. (noun) means, agency, way
how a result is obtained or an end is achieved
This shows that agency covers at least these 5 meanings and in the German language these different meanings have their own words. 1=Behörde, 2=Agentur, 3=? no equivalent, 4=Vertretung, 5=Wirkung oder Hilfe.
Do you think that one of these definitions helps to understand the word agency in relation with the gospel? Or would you say that the use of the word agency found somewhat a new definition in the church?
Because most of the translations in the German dictionary list words meantioned above but not one that can be truly meant in Doctrine and Covenants.
And... the word agency developed from the latin word agere, agentis meaning to act. Well... Selbständigkeit (synonyms would be for example: Unabhängigkeit = independence, and Selbstverwaltung=self-government) literally means that someone is able to stand by himself = selbst stehen. And developed into a meaning that refers to someone who can do something by himself and does not need help.
Entscheidungsfreiheit can be translated into English as freedom of decision-making. In many German dictionaries you cannot find it! In German we often put some nouns together to describe something if we lack a word for it. So in this case it could be that there was no true equivalent to agency and that's why they came up with this...
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This is interesting. :) I'm German and I cannot contribute something now... But I love to read more about it!
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I like the article. I have to say that I still have questions about this topic. Oh, I don't mean that I have doubts... I'm just curious!
Bruce C. Hafen explained:
A) The veil does two things:
1) It keeps us from remembering our premortal past.
2) It keeps God, his angels, and their activities hidden from our sight.
This is clear. But I have a question. Do only human beings have a veil or does every living thing? We know for example that the earth was born out of water, baptized and received the Holy Spirit, will burn and die and resurrect and be perfected. Would you say that the earth has a veil? I would guess so. And I would furthermore guess that Nr 1) describes the task of the veil every human has whereas Nr 2) could describe what the veil of this earth creates.
There is a veil between our world of mortality and God’s world of the eternities. It can become very thin at times.
B )
This is interesting. It says:“And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead” (Luke 16:29–31).
a) If they won't listen to the prophets here on earth,
b) they also would not believe if they actually would be allowed to see.
Believing is such a fantastic topic. Well, it does not make a difference to the people who don't believe whether they see or don't because it would not change their state of belief. This means it only makes a difference to the believers.
C ) I also think that it is interesting why we have to learn by experience. I know we have to in order to undertand and progress. Bruce C. Hafen said the Lord Jesus Himself had to learn by experience. I think we can learn a lot of theory without experience but we can hardly learn to use this theory if we don't try it. And since our goal is not only theoretic but very much concentrating on action (creating lives and worlds...) we need to prepare for it by experience.
D)
Why might we be “damned” or stopped if the veil were parted too early?
Wow, never thought of this before.
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Wow, I'm surprised. And I'm a German... lol.
We don't have any musical with our Frau Merkel... :)
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A few years ago I tried to mark scriptures with different colour each topic when I realized that most of them rely to more than one topic.
Now, I rarely colour anything anymore but underline things that strike me and if there is a scripture that really got me thinking I will either draw an exclamation point next to it or write down my thought.
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Thanks for the link. I will read it...
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I talked with an investigator and the missionaries about the plan of our Heavenly Father and thought about it.
I think the plan of our Father is not only wonderful and fascinating it also is very logical in many ways.
I'd like to find out more about the veil and wondered if anyone of you studied this topic and/or can help me to learn more.
Why exactly do we need the veil?
Who will finally experience the veil to be taken off?
And when will this happen?
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Hey there,
I looked the scriptures you quoted up in the German Bible and found out the following:
Ex12:14
14 Diesen Tag sollt ihr als Gedenktag begehen. Feiert ihn als Fest zur Ehre des Herrn! Für die kommenden Generationen macht euch diese Feier zur festen Regel!
Ex 12:17
17 Begeht das Fest der ungesäuerten Brote! Denn gerade an diesem Tag habe ich eure Scharen aus Ägypten herausgeführt. Begeht diesen Tag in allen kommenden Generationen; das sei für euch eine feste Regel.
Ex 12:24
24 Haltet euch an diese Anordnung! Sie gelte dir und deinen Nachkommen als feste Regel.
Lev 16: 29 Folgendes soll euch als feste Regel gelten: Im siebten Monat, am zehnten Tag des Monats, sollt ihr euch Enthaltung auferlegen und keinerlei Arbeit tun, der Einheimische und ebenso der Fremde, der in eurer Mitte lebt. 30 Denn an diesem Tag entsühnt man euch, um euch zu reinigen. Vor dem Herrn werdet ihr von allen euren Sünden wieder rein.
31 Dieser Tag ist für euch ein vollständiger Ruhetag, und ihr sollt euch Enthaltung auferlegen. Das gelte als feste Regel.
Well, every time it says "for ever" in the English King James Version it says "als feste Regel" in the German passages. It does not mean "forever" if I translate it into English. But "as a rule" meaning a rule that is firm and unshakeable.
I know that the German text is not the original one but it might be interesting to compare the two.
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There are some verses for example in Weisheit 19: 18ff
18 Die Elemente verändern sich untereinander, wie auf einer Harfe die Töne den Rhythmus ändern und doch den gleichen Klang behalten. Dies lässt sich aus der Betrachtung der Geschehnisse deutlich erkennen.
19 Landtiere verwandelten sich in Wassertiere und schwimmende Tiere stiegen ans Land.
20 Das Feuer steigerte im Wasser die ihm eigene Kraft und das Wasser vergaß seine löschende Wirkung.
21 Flammen verzehrten nicht das Fleisch der hinfälligen Tiere, die hineingerieten, noch schmolz im Feuer die eisartige, leicht schmelzende himmlische Speise.
It says that elements are changing and this can be observed. There were animals who lived on land and then were transformed into animals of the sea. Swimming animals went out of the water to live on dry land. Fire was not put out by water nor did it kill animals.
Sorry, my translation is not really well done but it sums up the important things here.
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Thank you for your comments...
I think if it was important to our understanding of the gospel to know more about her, it would have been given to us to k now more. Yes, it might just be a legend or a myth. I found it interesting to hear a rumour that she used to be the first wife of Adam.
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Well, what if the spirits who did not enter the covenant went down to earth and fight their battle here and then end up in the outer darkness.
Could the spirits who entered into that "covenant of peace" get another chance and were (fully?) restored in their first estate? Could it be that they also went to earth with a physical body?
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I think it means those who entered this covenant were allowed to come to earth because I relate that wilderness to the large field in Lehi's dream.
I agree with you.
Any ideas about the Waters of Sidon in Alma? What they could refer to?
Also, it is mentioned that the loss of people on both sides was immense. Thinking of the war in heaven, we know that one third went with Satan. That also is a great number of souls!
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This is very heavy. I haven't a doubt that the idea not only of physical evolution but also that of the earth's age have been hashed and rehashed on this site. It drives some people to distraction, but I have always found it to be a fascinating discussion. I do not think that the doctrine of the Creation has to be at odds with scientific finding.
Physical evolution and the earth's age are highly interesting topics! I have no clue if there are any threads around discussing these... did you know that in the German Bible there are some verses referring to evolution?
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there are Lilith type legends all around the world there are similarities to a legend in Mexico, and one in Wales about Blodeuwedd.
That is why I started to think of it differently. There are so many stories and she is mentioned in different ancient texts... it just got me thinking...
My own theory with no basis in anything but is it unreasonable to assume Satan/Lucifer has a number 1 lady>?
Oooh, interesting. :)
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I know what that feels like!VERY GOOD! Man, it's such a relief when someone "gets it" like you 2 have. This is the 3rd time I've tried posting this on these forums and it seems all I get is contempt!
In a sense, the loss of their first estate WAS the loss of their lives. They don't get to come to earth. They don't get to receive a body. They will never progress. They will never grow. They will never again be in the presence of God. This death is much, much worse than mortal death.
Yes, right. The question is, if we compare Alma 43 and 44 to the War in Heaven, did the spirit children who fought with Satan in the pre-existence also die in a sense that they had to give up their spiritual body?
That's another great topic. One of my favourite study topics of last year. Intelligence and intelligences. I wonder if there is already a thread to it... ?Abraham used the word Intelligences in describing the spirits of heaven and stated that whatever intelligence we attain in this life will be taken with us in the next.
As far as those who entered the covenant of peace and were allowed to go in the wilderness, I don't know if that means they were also allowed to come to earth to receive bodies or if it means they simply weren't cast out with Satan, or if they've just agreed not to take part in the war. That's something I hadn't thought of.
Mh, there were two sides... The defeated had two choices... either death or a covenant (but their leader didn't believe they could live up to it).
1. If death would have meant to be stopped in progress and to be cast out of the presence of God, it could mean the coming to earth without a body.
2. If death would have meant to stop to exist in the manner of a spiritual being, it could mean that those who followed and didn't enter this covenant of peace were disorganized in a sense that they lost their spiritual body and went back to matter/intelligence without any form or body.
This is getting to a very hypothetical point now.
(I love it!)If 1. is true:
In this case Satan's followers cannot progress. We know that without a body progress is a limited option. And cast out of the presence of God is what could be described with "thrown out of heaven".
The next question would be, for me, what happened to those who (might) have covenanted. Could it be that the ones who did make a covenant of peace were able to receive a physical body after all? Could that give light to another great topic as how Cain was able to come to the earth!?
If 2. is true:
Every spirit denying the covenant would have been disorganized and lost their spiritual body. This would also imply that Satan and his followers who are on this earth now are bound to a covenant...
What I do know is should such a covenant be broken it would mean their lives. Giving your word was much more serious before our time. That was why it was so difficult for them to agree to make such a pact. They would not give their word if they knew they would end up breaking that word, even if they thought they MIGHT break that word. I think it was the same in the pre-existence.
Isn't it said that giving one's word is not connected to such a strong impact anymore? I think as a Latter Day Saint our word needs to be just like the word of God in a sense that our Yes should be a Yes and our No a No. (This is another wonderful topic!!)
Sorry if I get too far off here. I really appreciate this thread! :)
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This really is interesting and I'm glad I've found this thread in here.
Thank you for all this information on the names.
liebe Grüsse, Connie
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Do you know the story of Lilith and what do you personally think about it?
When first introduced to it I did not really took much interest in it but lately my personal studies crossed this topic again and I found out that Lilith is not only an old jewish tradition and once referred to in the Bible, Lilith is also mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls and in various sources in literature. This is interesting though.
I don't know if it is true that there was Lilith before there was Eve. But I'd like to hear your opinions about it.
Thank you.
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Salut Guillaume et bienvenue sur ce site.
Je ne sais pas si tout ce que j'ai écrit est correct mais je suis heureux de pratiquer mon francais. ;-)
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