Texaspride

Those who never heard, are different than those who have. And they still wont get their with out Jesus. Very simple. Sounds like we will never get this in agreement so Im not sure if there is further need to continue in this subject. To me it makes perfect since and is not contradictive. It seems contradictive to you. Sometimes people just can never agree on some subjects and I dont want to get into criticalness or anything like that. I enjoy good honest debates where folks seriousely look at both sides with sincerity. But I sence this is not going in that direction. May God Almighty Bless you on your journey.

This seems contradictive to me on this subject striving. The book of mormon seems to teach no chance after death. Mosiah 2:36-39 36 And now, I say unto you, my brethren, that after ye have known and have been taught all these things, if ye should transgress and go contrary to that which has been spoken, that ye do withdraw yourselves from the Spirit of the Lord, that it may have no place in you to guide you in wisdom's paths that ye may be blessed, prospered, and preserved— 37 I say unto you, that the man that doeth this, the same cometh out in open rebellion against God; therefore he listeth to obey the evil spirit, and becometh an enemy to all righteousness; therefore, the Lord has no place in him, for he dwelleth not in unholy temples. 38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. 39 And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment. Alma 34:32-35 32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors. 33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. 34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. 35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked. Doctrine and covenants teaches differently here. Chance After Death Doctrine and Covenants Section 76:106-112 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; 107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God. 108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever. 109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore; 110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever; 111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared; 112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end. Section 88:99 99 And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump; and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ's at his coming; who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh.

No your not making sense. I dont see any contradiction. Why is it hard to understand that those who never hear can be judged? why is it hard to understand that those who do hear will be judged? Dont you trust God to judge a righteouss judgment? Why shoud those who hear the message and refuse to obey it have a chance to prove it once they pass away? Those who love the Savior will obey Him. Their is "no other way to Heaven but by Jesus Christ, not mohammad, budda, etc. To those who honestly never heard nor had a chance Paul explains that they will be judged as it says in Romans, "previouse page". No contradiction once so ever! Sounds fair to me.

Hey Striving. I obviousely have no certainty on how many have not heard the good news. I do know that the gospel is illegal in China. Do you suppose the people do not know the laws? If it is against the law to be a Christian they are aware of "Christians". Also I have know personally missionaries that go to China. The Church in China is underground but they are sharing their faith. It was illegal to be a Christian when the Apostle Paul met the Lord on the road to damascus, but when he was born again he preached in many cities that condemned his message. But everyone knew about it. You really should look up voice of the martyrs on line. It will show you the church in China. Millions of Bibles are smuggled in and many Pastors are thrown in jail for sharing their faith there. The gates of Hell will not prevail against the Lord's church. I believe the word's Jesus spoke. Also I went back and read my response to your other question about salvation, and I thought it explained my beliefs on it. Maybe I misunderstood part of the question, I am not the most scholared person in the world that is for sure. LOL... Anyways Be Blessed.

I disagree with your last paragraph, We all need Christ He truly is the ONLY way to the Father. I just believe that for the very few who lived back in the jungle their whole life who have never heard the gospel that the Lord will judge them fairly according to what Paul was saying in Romans. I dont believe their are "billions" who have not heard the gospel message or havent had a chance to receive Jesus. Their are missionaries in all nations, I have heard many reports of missionaries going into the jungles and sharing Jesus with the tribes. Jesus Christ split time, BC/AD. People will be responsible. Have you ever heard of "Voice of the Martyrs" A book written by John Fox that compiles Christian martyrdome since the death of our Lord on the cross. It records a historical record that the Lord has always had a thriving church since His departure. And they have been sharing the message of the cross ever since. (1 Corinthians 1:18) Remember the Lord said, Upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. He was telling the truth as He always does. His church never died off. I believe most have the oppurtunity to hear if they so choose. But for those who truly havent will be dealt with fairly. God is good! Jesus is the only way! Narrow is the road and only a few find it the Bible says. I hand out lots of Christian literature and many people will throw it in my face or seem to think im being rude for handing them a tract. They dont want much to do with Jesus. They are enjoying their sin. It's sad.

Hello. Let's keep our focus on God is a Just Judge. and than look at this again. As far as option #1 Rom 2:12-16 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. NKJV I believe this scripture shows God's fair justice on those who have never had a chance to hear the good news, (Gospel) Our conscience bears witness with God's laws. That is why non believers who commit sin, murder,adultery,etc tend to feel guilty. Their conscience bears witness. But if one has never heard they still have a conscience. I believe if one continues to sin outwardly they can sear the conscience as with a hot iron and no longer feel this gult. But they are still guilty. So I believe their can be some who never heard the Gospel in Heaven yes. But I believe those who hear it will be judged according to how they received it. Either they repented or they didnt. Either they turned from sin and were Born Again or they werent. The reason we must be Born Again as Jesus told Nicodemus is that our righteousness is not enough. Isaiah 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; NKJV Look at this scripture in Romans 10 Rom 10:1-4 10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV If we are counting on our own righteousness we will never make it. We must be clothed with the righteousness of God. And this is what takes place when we are Born Again of the Spirit. His Spirit gives us the ability to live the Christian life. God is just in all His judgements. And He sent the Holy Spirit on the earth to do this, John 16:7-9 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, NKJV I think this covers #2 as well. Let me know if this answers your question. Many Blessings.

LOL, my bad. It was just nice to be able to get a thought across with out my 5 year old hitting me in the head with a flying football. My kids are crazy!!!!!

Hello Pam. Some of our believes our similiar on this subject. I would also see it as a "prison", a permanent place for satan and his followers. Here a few scriptures I decided to put in here to maybe help you understand why I believe the way I do on it. Some of our differences in belief is the 3 degrees of glory. Jesus said in Luke 13:3 that unless you repent, you will perish. He was meaning that for all people. The Lord's teachings leaves us all guilty of sin. I dont know any who can read through the 10 commandments, and than read the Lord spiritualize them in the sermon on the mount, Matthew 5,6,7 and than can honestly say, " I have never sinned". We are all in need of a Saviour. And just because some one elses sin may be worse than ours it dosent make our smaller ones ok. if we have ever stolen a pencil, we are looked at as a thief. If we've ever looked with lust, we are considered an adulturer, if weve ever hated we are looked at as a murderer. The Lord looks upon the heart, and that is why He says what He says in Luke 13:3. It helps us to be humble and less judgmental when we view ourselves in the Light of God's Holiness. He is perfect. All this can seem overwhelming and tend to leave us feeling hopeless. And we without God we are. Remember when the disciples asked the Lord who can be saved? Jesus said, with man this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible. So if we have been forgiven we will know it. Than doubt and trembling will leave because we have been truly adopted into His sheep pen. He is so faithfull, and the Bible is clear that He is not will that any perish. He loves us to much. Sorry to write so much I just had some extra time while the kids were doing homework. LOL.. Many Blessings. Matt 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother,'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says,'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. NKJV Matt 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. NKJV Matt 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. NKJV Matt 18:9 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire. NKJV Matt 23:15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves NKJV Matt 23:33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? NKJV Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! NKJV Pray for the people of Haiti. Huge earthquake hit a major city. 7.0 magnitude. Matt 3:10 nd even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. NKJV Matt 3:12 His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. NKJV Matt 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. NKJV Matt 13:40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age NKJV Matt 13:42-43 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. NKJV Matt 13:50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth NKJV Matt 25:41-42 Then He will also say to those on the left hand,'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: NKJV

Hello Friend. Jesus mentions it often. While it may be a difficult thing to speak of, it is truth. Have you ever seen a book called, "23 minutes in Hell"? A man passes away and ends up their. His experience is amazing. Nevertheless he is know a Christian. Their have been many people who have died and came back and have seen Hell. It is a real place. Check Youtube for a video called, "A letter from hell" Also try to a documerntry called, "To Hell and back". To hell and back is a great documentry. It may be a little upsetting but it is also a eye opener on the dangers of sin. Jesus took it seriousely. Look at the Cross. That is seriouse. We must make repentance real in our lives. God Bless you on your journey!

Hey Carl. I would believe any one who changes the teachings of Jesus Christ to be a false teacher. So the best way to go about it, is to read and meditate on what He taught in the four gospels, Matthew,Mark,Luke and John. And than when you see another teaching that contradicts what He taught. You should be able to recognize it. Bankers and many people who work with money study out REAL 100 dollar bills. Than when they see a counterfeit come by they can see the difference. So I would just encourage you to study out the Lord's teachings earnestly. Their have been many false teachers since His death and resurection. Even Paul had people trying to counterfeit his epistles. Hope this answers your question. May God Bless You On Your Journey

We'll friend, Jesus Christ preached more on Hell than He did Heaven. And He referred to it as "a lake fire which burns forever" He went as far to say it would be better to cut out your eye if it causes you to sin" than it would be to go to Hell. It is not something many want to believe, but Jesus Christ does not lie!!!!!!! You should believe what He says, and not listen to false teachers that dont teach truth.I would say at least 99.9 percent of people on this earth have heard the Biblical message of salvation. But people's sinful lifestyle overides their desire to repent. Jesus Christ offers all the gift of repentance. He died for the ungodly so they dont have to go to Hell. But if they reject repentance, why would He allow them in His Heaven? He is a God of Justice. And yes you can read about hell in the old testament. Later when I have time I can send ya some references if your seriouse about knowing. Jesus said, if we look at a women to lust we have commited adultery. This is seriouse. Sin is seriouse. We must desire truth and seek the Lord with a repentant humble heart. He will forgive us our sin. Who can say they havent sinned? Everyone needs a Saviour!

Hey, I love Texas! I moved here from Utah about a year ago. And it is HUGE! The Cookie thing dont freak me out, I actually think it's funny! Thanks for all the welcomes and hope ya all have a great new year!

Here's my question, Why do you see the relevance of temple worship under the new covenant of the cross? (New Testament) Also I do not see any similiarities between modern day temple ceramonies and what I read about in the Old Testament. Where did these practices come from, they are not from the Bible. I think the modern day temple ceramonies come from the "free masons" dont they? Not sure, and if they did, where did the free masons get their idea's from?

Never posted a thread before so I will learn by trial and error. I enjoy gospel discussion and historical studies. I am not a scholar but more like a presenter and a searcher! I think it's exciting. Anyways, looking to meet some folks on here that are mature and honest and not afraid of research!