CommanderSouth

Something that has been nagging at me since the name emphasis for the church has been changing has been why we haven't been focusing on this sooner. If we have been grieving the spirit since we have been embracing Mormon and such, why was this not stressed during the mormon.org push and the I'm a Mormon campaign? I very much want to approach this in the right way, but I really do struggle with this question off and on. What do you all think?

As of late I have been mulling over the idea of how we worship God. Having been brought up Pentecostal it was all very much hands in the air, repetitive prayer, phrases, and the like. Not at all meant to be mundane or over the top, but it always struck me as "angels with harps" so to speak. I have been thinking about our relationship to God, as we understand it. And it makes me think is that truly necessary or even what the Lord wants? Would you really sit and just fawn over your earthly father all day, no matter how good they were? I am not sure I am looking at it through the right lens, but it seems to me the honor we should be giving is the gratitude and capitalization on what he has given us, and not just the endless adoration. Sometimes I worry the way I look at our relationship with God could demean the worship I give to him as I think of him as less a magical creator I need to be falling down in front of all the time, and the perfection I need to strive to be, though ever grateful for the love he has and possibilities he has given us. What do you guys think? Am I waaaay off base here?

Thank you, all of you. I realized tonight I have been on this site for nearly 8 years. I have probably posted most of the same stuff as it regurgitated itself in my life, the same old doubts and fears and hangups. But through all of that, you guys have been here, providing insight and being a great sounding board. I was very blessed tonight to feel the spirit as I went back through my posts and saw where I have come from. Even though in some ways I haven't made much headway, I can see where I have, and it REALLY helped me get my spiritual footing. I am reminded of Elder Clayton's talk from this April about how sometimes the small and simple things can help in completely unrelated ways. I feel that has happened tonight. I have been struggling with the nature of God (either as our creator or our father) and have been having a VERY hard time waffling if I should go through the RCIA program in the Catholic Church. Reading through my posts and seeing my progress has really helped, "settle my stomach" for lack of a better word. I still have the two ideas of God floating about in my brain, but the upheaval has died down. Tender mercies of the Lord I think. With all that in mind, I just wanted to come to the forum and thank everyone for being there and being an aid to me, sometimes I think between FAIR and here, that's 75% of what helps me keep it together. Anyway, have a good night everyone (I should have been to bed 4 hours ago, but...)

I have been having some issues with my testimony, and at the recommendation of my wife, I have started a more thorough and intense reading of the Book of Mormon. I started reading tonight in the introduction, and found myself knee jerking into doubt again. I don't know that it matters about WHAT gave me pause, just that I found myself thinking about how the whole thing is a sham based on this line or that line and how it relates to XYZ. It made me think about my faith and how I have never truly been able to get past that. I have never been of the mindset to assume the Book of Mormon is true. I have always been of the one to read something I don't understand and knee jerk into "the whole things a fabrication." It just worries me that in nearly 10 years and having been through the temple, I am really no farther along than I was at baptism. I guess what I am asking is, does this ever get better, am I just not diligent enough? I often worry that's the case. I know there are things I MUST do better, but truthfully I feel most times I need to do better. In any event, thanks for the insight!

I feel this is an outgrowth of some thoughts I have been having regarding the King Follet discourse. I know this isn't standard works level cannon but for the sake of discussion let's assume it is. God was once a man, now enthroned in yonder heaven. True, he is perfect and just and glorified, but he is still a being bound by laws that we don't know where the came from (or perhaps are simply self existing). This version of God doesn't create ex nihilo and reminds me of the statement that any sufficiently advanced technology would appear as magic to one of lesser understanding. With that in mind, one could simply treat this God as a sufficiently progressed man. Which is some ways removes the mystery and majesty of the divine. Now let's go to the other hand. God is a self existing being who created our universe from nothing. He created the laws of our universe and is not bound by them. This leaves more questions about his reasoning as the idea of an omnipotent being creating feeling creatures that will suffer if they don't follow him by faith alone, that has its own set of problems. This second being is more mysterious and divine in someways in my mind. But the question is, which God (if either) is God? I think the idea I have is that, the LDS idea of God sometimes makes me feel like we lessen him by putting him on our level. That he simply holds all knowledge and that is how he does everything. What do you all think?

I spoke to my wife about it too, we thought about the possibility that the person receiving it was simply going through the motions for my sake, which would indicate (seemingly) a lack of faith in the process.

I have had the privilege of giving my father and my uncle blessing this week while visiting in Florida, neither of them are members and the one thing I noticed was I got almost no promptings and everything was very dark in my mind, vs when my wife asks for a blessing and promptings and thoughts seem to flow. Is this just me or has anyone else noticed anything like this?

And honestly, between Mountain Meadows, Polygamy and whatnot, I don't think this would hurt much. My primary concern is one of their reaction to criticism against "blind" faith. I do think Willie's explanation of not being able to stay would have been enough if Richards hadn't came up and blasted Levi as well, because for that I have no answer...

I don't think that they would dig too deep into the history of it, so if there were liberties with details like the Donner party then that wouldn't be problematic. If some of the miracles are tenuous, then I am still in the clear, as I can say "we THINK" this happened, but this DEFINITELY happened" and get away with it. Thankfully for me, my parents are older and not inclined to dig this stuff up :)

I picked up 17 miracles from Netflix and have been mulling about showing it to my non member parents. Ephraim's Rescue I think did a lot of good showing the power of God being in the church, I say this as my Mom commented on it,saying we used to be closer to God, or something like that. The thing I can't figure out though is if I should show the this one, especially given Richards and Willie's rebuke of Levi Savage, and then him being "vindicated" by so much hardship. I don't want to do more harm than good, but the miracles we pretty stirring, and that could be good, but I don't know if the tradeoff of blasting someone for disobedience is worth it. What do you all think? Thanks!

Sometimes I wish I could be content to understand that it is probably not possible to see outside of our "box". But I sit here and try to figure out how God is either A) Always God, which seems to go against ye olde King Follet discourse, or B) Not always God and seems to not answer where everything came from. Any thoughts? I'd imaging "Deal with it" is nigh approaching :)

And when I think about the constructs in my own mind, I think this is the case. Just as we can/will be one with God and in that way will BE gods, we are still one. In this way, if there are other Gods they are still one, as it's simply what we become. Mind you all this does is shift the question of where we came from or where God came from up a level, but it does seem to work.

A thought came to me as I was studying the priesthood over the last few weeks. I know it is the power of God delegated to men, but is he the source, or does he simply delegate authority GIVEN him? I guess this goes into "infinite regression" and so on, but it is a thought I had. What do you all think?

And that seems to be my only out, aside from doubting myself, is that it isn't his time, or it simply isn't the spirit. It's so much easier to doubt myself, as I fully have an out for the central pillar of my testimony...

I know I have at least touched on this idea before, but, what should I do to reconcile the spiritual experiences of others than run counter to my own? Example: My Brother (Pentecostal), describes experiences with the power of God, and the Holy Spirit, physical manifestations, also describes the same spirit telling him to stay away from the BoM. I know my brother, and in many ways he is like me, lived as a pentecostal for decades, had no real manifestations of the spirit in the way others around him did, and then BLAMO, feels the spirit physically manifested to him, and still pentecostal. I don't know what he felt, but I can't shrug it off like I can people I don't know, because I Know my brother and I know he wouldn't lie, this is the same situation I am in with my mother. What do you all think, where can I turn on this one? Thanks!

How is it we believe in divorce when the NT seems to forbid it in cases of anything other than adultery? I did some digging for other topics but couldn't seem to find anything (or I don't know what to search for...) Thanks for the thoughts!

That's probably right traveler, maybe, I have to work it out in my head, but it very well could be a fear of truth, or possibly since I want the church to be true, and all of it doesn't have answers that satiate me (or ones that I am fine having, but since I can't answer anyone else, it bothers me) makes me worry I am in fact afraid of the truth. I apologize, don't always articulate these feelings properly, especially when I don't understand exactly what they are myself...

All of these comments help, I think I need to address some deficiencies in my own testimony before going too much further down these roads though. All additional insight is welcome though, and thanks to everyone so far! As always you guys are pretty Johnny on the spot to help me when questions come up and I run out of mormons to ask who will know what I am talking about :)

Do we believe celestial marriage was taught by Christ definitively?

"But you don't believe that Jesus gave us all that we need to be saved through his Apostles that he walked on Earth with. You believe what one man said 2000 years after Christ saved us by dying on the cross and leaving us His instructions. The Mormon religion adds to what the Bible says and that is just wrong." Doctrinally I don't know how to answer that given I don't fully know she. Each of the ordinances for exaltation were introduced and in which dispensation. What advice or scriptures can you all think of?

Yeah Eowyn, that's entirely possible :)

Skousen's teachings on intelligences relative to the atonement is one of my favorite talks, pretty deep stuff, but awesome nonetheless...

Wouldn't that lead to a potential finite number of spirit children? I ask because, if I am rembering right, are not our spirits made of intelligence? If that be the case how does that relate to eternal progression? We know God posses all truth so progression doesn't lead to new knowledge, I was under the understanding that it is the growth of the eternal families we are in that increases the glory of God. If that is correct, wouldn't there be a finite number of spirit children, and seemingly trouble for "eternal" progression, or does this lead us back to the names of God in D&C 19? Or perhaps I am, A) Thinking too much, B) Have flawed premises, C) Both D) Just have to wait... Thanks for your thoughts!

It's ironic you mention that verse. It was the first verse of the Book of Mormon that I would say I "felt". I had uttered those words almost verbatim months before I started investigating the church. My mom asked me if I believed in God anymore, my response was, I want to believe.

That is correct, I have been off the log for quite some time and now I am working on my faith again. But yeah that was what I was asking, your opinion if you felt that was normal to feel those things even at baptism be you are supposed to be sure of what you are doing.